[Celumnaz]

I thought I knew. I thought I knew And I thought it was common knowledge.

But, turns out maybe I'm just a victim of ignorance...

I'm trying to think back... I was aware of the "culture" in the early 90's. I just don't remember it back then... I think of the movies and records that came out from the 70's, and I just don't remember hearing it. Until the late 90's.

Maybe I just wasn't exposed to it.

But I can't verify it... I *think* I remember the radio, when J.G. died, that it was at 4:20! Well... I think it was 4:20something, but you don't need the minutes. "What time was it?" "Four Twenty *garble garble*" 4:20 is just easier.

And That's when I remember seeing it spring up.

But I go to snopes, and hightimes, and googles... and I can't find either my "theory", or Jerry's time of death!

I see reference to some kids in high school in 1971. I see reference to the days Hendrix died or some such. But, all of those would have had to have been theorized at a specific time.

As a term becomes used, it's just used. It's not until a time has passed that someone goes "hey, where'd that come from anyway?"

IF it came from the 70's, why weren't people asking where it came from in the 80's? IF it Did start in the 90's like I thought, it would make sense that Now that it's become very prevalent, the question would pop up a good decade after it started by word of mouth.

So. Does anyone know for sure where it came from? I don't remember Cheech asking Chong in any movie if it's 4:20 yet. I see song and movie references After J.G.'s death, but so far haven't seen anything compelling before. Many coincidences, but none that really have a direct clue toward the "culture". A broken clock is right twice a day.

I have no clue if this belongs in the urban legends, my apologies if not. I don't know where to ask.

[Pax Unum]

According to Steven Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated at San Rafael High School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres who called themselves the Waldos, who are now pushing 50. The term was shorthand for the time of day the group would meet, at the campus statue of Louis Pasteur, to smoke pot. Intent on developing their own discreet language, they made 420 code for a time to get high, and its use spread among members of an entire generation. While our teens feel that they know something we don't, you can let them in on the fact that it was your generation that came up with the numbers.

A quote from one of the Waldos in the High Times article states, "We did discover we could talk about getting high in front of our parents without them knowing by using the phrase 420." Fortunately, your teenagers will not have that same option.

What Does '420' Mean?

[Celumnaz]

Yeah I read that too, but I just didn't see it in the culture of the 70's.

I'm hoping there's some hippy or yuppie from the 70's/80's that remember using the term, or remember it being part of the culture...

I'm just not seeing it. They may very well have, but I don't think that's the origin of the popular current use of it. I could have Sworn, and until I see something compelling otherwise, will stand by that it came from Jerry's TOD. It just wasn't used widespread or commonly until that day that I can see. That day he died it Exploded, and That's the origin...

I think...

See, part of what's confirming it for me is hightimes itself. It didn't ask the question until recently. Hightimes has been around a while... why hasn't it asked the question before? It Should have, following trends, IF that's really the origin. So, it can't be, it must be a coincidence that a small segment used it there.

Where was it in the 80's? Does Anyone remember 420 in the 80's?

And maybe it really did come from those kids in '71... that's why I'm asking. But that same info is on snopes and several other places I googled. *sighs in mild confusion*

[Tillghast]

Wasn't it the day Bob Marley died, or something?

I remeber hearing that.

[crouton]

I graduated from high school in 1976 (ack!) and this is the first time I've EVER heard of the phrase 420.

[Celumnaz]

I've read that too Tillghast. Problem is, if that's true of Hendrix, Marley, or any of the other few names tossed about... it would have been in use, more widespread more directly after their deaths. They just weren't, so all it is is a good "urban legend" guess.

It's become an urban legend. The truth is, as far as I can tell, and thanks for your input Crouton, is that it happened when Jerry Garcia died. I remember them announcing it on the radio. I remember 420 Exploded into use on hightimes. (does Anyone have an issue of hightimes around the time, before and after, J.G.'s death?)

I think I just watched an urban legend form. That highschool bunch, Marley, Hendrix, Joplin, Holfman's trip, # of chemicals in marijuana, police code for contraband, etc etc etc were all just... Made Up, after the fact, to explain the use that people didn't understand.

Which amazes me.

Spent more time researching it last night. I'm pretty convinced J.G.'s death caused the 420 phenomenon, and am boggled that hightimes, snopes, or anyone don't even Attempt to address that...

It's not just a theory. I remember the day, the days before, and the days after. Far as I can tell, that's the Truth behind 420.

But I could be wrong. One thing I read that might date it before 95, was that the movie "Pulp Fiction" had 420 on all it's clocks. Well, pulp fiction came out in 94, J.G. died in 95, and well... not all the clocks are at 420... as snopes says "when the kid receives the watch it's set at 9:00"

So, dead end there. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and coincidences happen.

But the coincidence of nobody I've run into ever using that term before J.G.'s death, me remembering the radio guy saying his time of death that day, and seeing the explosion in hightimes magazine and other places after his death...

It's not even listed as a theory though. And far as I can tell, it's the truth...

[Spunned]

hu, there you go... I've never heard of 420 either... interesting though

[Bosanchero]

need to be pothead in order for you to know what 4:20 is
4:20 is Break time where i work

[SAMURAI-X]

Me and my friends were wondering this same thing last month since it was in fact april 20, i doubt it was Jerry's death that brought the 420 phrase up because that is just not long enough ago, we though it might be bob marleys death or something along those lines too but never heard the story of the kids in the 70's making it up but it could be possible.

[Purplos]

Just some stuff I found: (Very interesting reading here)
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420 degrees Fahrenheit is the temperature at which marijuana burns, the primary method of use.
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The term came from H. P. Lovecraft's Within The Walls of Eryx which contains the line "My route must have been far from straight, for it seemed hours before I was free of the mirage-plant's pervasive influence... When I did get wholly clear I looked at my watch and was astonished to find that the time was only 4:20".
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4:20, also rumored to be "the time that you should dose to be peaking when the Dead went on stage" Hart (?)
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And www.filmspeed.com says the propoganda film Reefer Madness has a copyright date of April 20, 1936 (i.e. 4/20).
--------

[OlDrippy34]

I'd heard a lot about it, most of it unsubstantial and pretty lame. I always liked the Lovecraft explanation for what is one of the most entirely idiotic traditions ever.

[Boff]

It's also Hitlers birthday

[riotboy555]

Quote

Wasn't it the day Bob Marley died, or something?

I remeber hearing that.

He died May 11th, 1981.

[dezavala]

I'm sure my parents have no idea what 420 is. They went to HS in the late 70's.

[Lizard King]

Yeah, I thought it was hitlers birthday too. Or death. All I truly know is, everyday is 420 when youre a medicinal cannabis patient. So screw dates.