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Show me proof


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#16    Athlon64

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Posted 06 October 2003 - 11:48 AM

I am inclined to agree that each individual really needs to see a phenomenon for themselves before they can truly "believe it exists". I am a very open minded person, and I am interested in lots of different paranormal/cryptozoological phenomena, but I haven't seen anything remotely strange in my 36 years. That is a rather large disappointment to me, but I can hardly say that I have gone out of my way to find anything.  wink2.gif

Still, several members of my family have witnessed numerous events in the past, and these accounts have been frequently recited ever since  disgust.gif  The problem here is that I cannot totally accept that what they saw or experienced was paranormal in origin. They might be certain, but that's because they witnessed the events first hand. Even then, it is amazing how people can be persuaded that they have seen something unusual, when in fact a more mundane explanation is far more likely.

The trouble here is that some people are far too willing to believe that they have seen something strange, without rationalising about it first. That may seem a bit too critical to some people, but it is almost certain that lots of people "see things" because they want to see them, rather than because they "have" seen them. Unfortunately, people like this can rarely be convinced that they may have misidentified natural phenomena from an unusual angle, or in poor light. That's why we need to be ultra critical about our own experiences, since only the very best evidence will be sufficiently convincing to others.

Chris Low.



#17    quaneeri

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 03:54 PM

If we had proof positive of things like ufo's aliens etc: alien:


Then boards like this one would not exist, there would be no need for them, as the questions would all have been answered.



The truth will never be handed to you on a silver platter, you have to do your own research, and come up with your own answers, it takes time and patience.  wink2.gif  


#18    reese2

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 04:01 PM

Well, I would sacrifice a board like this for the proof, if that were the case.  If there was proof, I would think there would be a greater demand for boards like this, so that the masses could absorb the information.  There is definate proof of UFO's, it just doesn't prove what controls them.  (i.e.  humans, ET's, or others')  No one can prove that at the moment.

By meaning of proof, I would hope that it isn't one of personal journey and faith, but tangible PROOF.  



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#19    thecat

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 04:26 PM

What is 1+1, do not answer, until you can prove that you will be alive 24hrs after you read the question. I rest my case.


#20    reese2

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 04:29 PM

   HUH?????    huh.gif  blink.gif


What kind of case was that??     wacko.gif



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#21    Night Breed

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 04:32 PM

QUOTE (theSOURCE @ Oct 4 2003, 11:49 PM)
Tell me where I can find a ghost that I can sit down and have a chat with.

If you lived closer and with about 2 years training, you could have your friendly chat with a ghost. wink2.gif  


#22    reese2

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 04:34 PM

OK, I have to ask...  What does training have to do with it?  Would the ghosts ask at the door for credentials, before they allow someone to experience them.. Is that the prerequisite now?



               Reese     wink2.gif  

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#23    quaneeri

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 04:40 PM

What is accepted as proof byone person, may not be accepted as proof  by someone else.



We all have our own ideas of what constitutes PROOF.


#24    reese2

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 04:50 PM

Well, I think that is where this hits a dead end, fast.  Proof, is something that can be used to decide between something that is fact or fiction, the probable or inprobable.  It is not an opinion, or perception of what one feels is right.  There is a huge difference between the two.

A theory or hypothesis, is not proof. (It is the BEST GUESS) What people mean when they say they want 'proof', is they want something that straight across the board can disspell whatever it is in question, beyond a doubt.  Not something that is purely good for one person, but not others'.  Proof of anything is something that we as a civilization work with.  We require proof, in the logical sense, not the whimsical sense.




               Reese

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When one door closes another door opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the ones which open for us." - Alexander Graham Bell

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#25    theSOURCE

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 01:51 AM

QUOTE (reese2 @ Oct 7 2003, 04:50 PM)
Well, I think that is where this hits a dead end, fast.  Proof, is something that can be used to decide between something that is fact or fiction, the probable or inprobable.  It is not an opinion, or perception of what one feels is right.  There is a huge difference between the two.

A theory or hypothesis, is not proof. (It is the BEST GUESS) What people mean when they say they want 'proof', is they want something that straight across the board can disspell whatever it is in question, beyond a doubt.  Not something that is purely good for one person, but not others'.  Proof of anything is something that we as a civilization work with.  We require proof, in the logical sense, not the whimsical sense.




               Reese

Very well stated reese. That is an excellent definition of empirical evidence.

I've done my share of field research. I've spent a lot of money and time traveling to various sites around the US. I've seen with my own eyes lights in the night sky that maneuvered strangely, and I've seen daylight UFOs that hovered for minutes, or zipped by without making a sound. What were they? I have no idea. They remain unidentified...at least, to me.

I once walked into a basement alter room where certain "pseudo-Satanist wannabes" claimed that demonic spirits would appear to anyone who went down there. I stood in the middle of the room and yelled out, "OK demons or Satan or whatever is down here! I challenge you to appear before me, now! Come on, let me see what you look like! How about a puff of red smoke, or some cold wind or something? What are you, a coward?" You won't believe what happened next...

Absolutely nothing. When I walked out of there they told me that I had brought darkness and evil upon myself. That was back around '87 and I still haven't seen a demon yet. And, by the way, I'm not trying to insult anyone who believes in the existence of demonic spirits. I'm only saying that I'm not afraid to take on a challenge.

Cattle mutilations have been going on for 30 or 40 years, and still no one knows who or what is doing it. Sea and lake cryptids have been spotted for centuries now, yet we still have no proof if they exist or not. Coming from a family who believed in many myths, I can see why so many new *incomprehensibles* and urban myths are constantly turning up.

I know there are many strange mysteries that have yet to be explained. But is the truth so "out there" that it's beyond reach? I hope not.

My rant is over.




*Quoting John A. Keel.*  


#26    Potholer

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 08:50 AM

I think I'm a fool. dontgetit.gif

I tend to believe antyhing and everything unless it can be proven impossible. but I'm trying to work out whether i believe in antying and everything or the POSSIBILITY of anything and everything.

I was reading this hing on time travel. The majority of scientist hate the idea that this is possible so, despite einstiens theory of relativity and a few other theories (of which I cant remember the names...) allow for the possibility of it they insist that it isnt possible. "the theory must be incomplete" a few of them said. Much of the time, if things don't fit in with the norm adn can't 'logically' be explained then they can't POSSIBLY be true. It annoys me how it's changed to suit science..grrr

depending on the time and place, everything is possible...just in varying degrees

what would be the point of unexplained mysteries if all was explained?



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#27    Athlon64

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 10:20 AM

So called "scientists" are very good at dismissing things that they cannot explain. The fact that they cannot explain them should be enough to convince them that further research is warranted. Unfortunately, the opposite generally happens when anything paranormal is mentioned. They simply close their minds and refuse to accept that anything of this nature is even possible.

That is bad science.

Chris Low.



#28    Thyreus

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 12:01 PM

The SOURCE,
disgust.gif I understand it is hard to believe all paranormal things, but I do not think that it is normal not to believe all people. Sorry for these words. I am saying that, because there are many myths and stories about haunted houses, monsters and so on. To my mind nothing comes out of nowhere even the most incredible things. For example I can find information about vampires in myths from Hindi culture, Greek culture, Slavic culture and as I rememmber even in Indian (Mayans...). They are not from nowhere! The same is with these wolf-man or how they are called. I can found them in Baltic, German and other cultures.
huh.gif On the other hand sometimes I am as sceptical as you, so I am going to read the responses to your question. I also would like to be more confident about these things.
rolleyes.gif Thank you for starting this theme.


#29    Phenomenon

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 03:29 PM

Hi Nancy, hope all is well with you.

I tend to agree with SaRuMaN on this ( that name's a bugger to type  wacko.gif  ).To believe merely for believings sake would be silly, and it would take away most of the mystery that generates so much of these discussions.To go the other way would likewise be foolish, a middle ground is the best place to sit as it leaves you more open to opinion and proof.I don't think that proof has different levels depending on who you are...proof is proof.So far there is very little proof for most phenomena, but there is suggestive evidence.
On another note, the Rose that Nancy mentioned.Apparently this is an extremely common occurance, especially in some of Engalnd's enormous rose gardens.In fact they say that there are so many cross hybrids around that some can revert back to original species at given times.We now create roses that are from two seperate hybrids...the result can be a red rose with the odd pink rose, or any other colour.



#30    Nancy

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 11:37 PM

QUOTE (phenomenon @ Oct 14 2003, 11:29 AM)
Hi Nancy, hope all is well with you.

On another note, the Rose that Nancy mentioned.Apparently this is an extremely common occurance, especially in some of Engalnd's enormous rose gardens.In fact they say that there are so many cross hybrids around that some can revert back to original species at given times.We now create roses that are from two seperate hybrids...the result can be a red rose with the odd pink rose, or any other colour.

Where have you been stranger? How all is well with you too!

Ahhh, I beg to differ with you a little on the "Rose" situation. Since this is so close to my heart, I've done quite a bit of research into the "how's and why's" this happened.

The Yellow Rose that appeared on an old Red Rose bush, was/is not a hybrid.
During its normal blooming time, in Northern California (from late March through October, depending on weather) it was full of tiny, very blood red roses.

However, the Yellow Rose only appeared during the week of December 18th and stayed for approximately one week. One Single Bloom...... Soft Yellow in color and again I stress, only one bloom.

Also, when the bloom ready to die, it never turned brown (as some light roses do, around the edges)........ it simply "left" the rose bush. There one day? Next day? Poof.

To this day, I cannot find an experts that can explain this...... none, zip, nada.

Sorry to disagree!
Nancy  wub.gif

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