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"Everything that has a beginning has an end"


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#1    Inchoatus

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 10:28 PM

Think about it, logically, its right to have an end for the start but, Space is infinite. Like, just keeps going. No end. No walls, just friggin space. Like going on and on and on and on.

Because of that fact, can we relate that to other things?? I mean if you think seriously about it, it really doesnt make any sense. Everytime we see something, we will be expecting for that "thing" to end anytime. How could Space not have an end?? Is it because the way we think?? The way we look at things? Is it something that we cant relate cuz its out of our hands?

What do you think?

Sorry if it sounds confusing...

** dam sorry for the spelling mistake in the title...  hmm.gif

Edited by Inchoatus, 19 May 2006 - 10:31 PM.

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#2    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 10:43 PM

Space isn't infinite. It was creasted at the moment of the big bang and has been expanding ever since. As it was created a finite amount of time ago and has been expanding at a finite rate logically it has to be of finite size. Howevere it is boundless. It has no beginning or end in the same way that a circle has neither.

P.S. I've fixed the title.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 19 May 2006 - 10:46 PM.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#3    =Jak=

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 11:00 PM

http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/BHfaq.html#q1

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#4    Stardrive

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 11:01 PM

It's like Waspie said, mapping of the microwave radiation left over from the big bang indicates an expanding bubble. A bubble in what is unknown. Maybe it will just pop and collapse back in on itself. Then start a new big bang. Who knows?

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#5    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 11:11 PM

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Just leaving a link with no explanation is unlikely to get peoples interest. In this case it is a link to frequently asked questions on black holes. What this has to do with whether the universe is infinite or not I don't know.


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It's like Waspie said, mapping of the microwave radiation left over from the big bang indicates an expanding bubble. A bubble in what is unknown. Maybe it will just pop and collapse back in on itself. Then start a new big bang. Who knows?


It is not really a bubble into anything as such, well not anything physical anyway. It is a 3 dimensional universe expanding into a fourth dimension.

It won't go pop as such but collapsing in on itself is a possibility. It has been the quest of astrophysics for a while to find out whether the universe is open (expands forever) or closed (expansion will stop followed by a collapse). This depends on the amount of matter in the universe. If there is enough the gravitation attraction of everything in the universe will cause the collapse. Recent evidence suggest that not only is the universal expansion not slowing but it is actually accelerating, meaning that the universe will expand forever.


"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#6    =Jak=

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 11:30 PM

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Everytime we see something, we will be expecting for that "thing" to end anytime. How could Space not have an end??



If anything comes near to black hole thats the end of space...  but again it start with a new begin..  so we can tell it is infinite...  but there is a end for everything.. just by restarting this process it become infinite..

Edited by j4jak, 19 May 2006 - 11:31 PM.

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#7    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 11:38 PM

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If anything comes near to black hole thats the end of space...  but again it start with a new begin..  so we can tell it is infinite...  but there is a end for everything.. just by restarting this process it become infinite..


I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Black holes in no way prove that the universe is infinite.

An object which passes through the event horizon of a black will be unable to escape from it's gravitational pull. The object gets destroyed as it is pulled in. Quite how this represents a new beginning or evidence that the universe is infinite I have no idea.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#8    =Jak=

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 11:51 PM

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I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Black holes in no way prove that the universe is infinite.

An object which passes through the event horizon of a black will be unable to escape from it's gravitational pull. The object gets destroyed as it is pulled in. Quite how this represents a new beginning or evidence that the universe is infinite I have no idea.


I feel it is pulled not for destroying anything ...  just to recycle.. because no one knows what exactly happen in black hole..   they are talking about a white hole too.. which only spit..    


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#9    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 12:08 AM

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I feel it is pulled not for destroying anything ...  just to recycle.. because no one knows what exactly happen in black hole..   they are talking about a white hole too.. which only spit..


Read your own link:

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These tidal forces get more and more intense as you get closer to the center, and eventually they will rip you apart.


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White holes are a perfectly valid mathematical solution to the equations of general relativity, but that doesn't mean that they actually exist in nature. In fact, they almost certainly do not exist, since there's no way to produce one.


Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 20 May 2006 - 12:09 AM.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#10    =Jak=

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 12:29 AM

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."

Who am i to talk about something which no one can study it properly..

but still i feel..  even if this destroy it fully..  there should be a way out again from somewhere..  otherwise how the cycle of time, energy will work...  


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#11    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 12:39 AM

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"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."

Who am i to talk about something which no one can study it properly..


Firstly that is a quote from a comedy science fiction novel. Secondly there is a difference between big and infinite. A universe expanding at a finite speed for a finite time can not be infinite. It can only be infinite if it has been epanding for an infinite amount of time (which the 3K backgroud radiation shows it hasn't) or is expanding at infinite speed (which is forbidden by relativity) or both.

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but still i feel..  even if this destroy it fully..  there should be a way out again from somewhere..  otherwise how the cycle of time, energy will work...


What cycle of time, energy?

There is a scientific law called the conservation of mass-energy. This is in no way violated by the object being torn apart by the black hole. The mass of the object still exists it just becomes part of the black hole.

If it is destroyed fully it is over, finished, kaput. If you think that there is some sort of reincarnation going on here then that is a subject for the spirituallity forums.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 20 May 2006 - 12:51 AM.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#12    frogfish

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 02:42 AM

I fully agree with Waspie here...The most accepted theories say Space is not infinite. It is actually expanding.

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#13    noyritus

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 07:14 AM

There is evidence that space was in hyper exapansion after the big bang of course, and the acceleration started slowing.  However, for some unknown reason - one that defys our rationalize of physics, it started speeding up again about 10 or so billion years ago.


#14    Stardrive

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 03:41 PM

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There is evidence that space was in hyper exapansion after the big bang of course, and the acceleration started slowing.  However, for some unknown reason - one that defys our rationalize of physics, it started speeding up again about 10 or so billion years ago.

Just a thought here, maybe the expansion is speeding up because of the gavitational pull from another, parallel, expanding universe. Do we know for a fact that the big bang event that created our universe was the only one?

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#15    Inchoatus

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 04:16 PM

Thnkx for the infos Waspie. I never knew it wasnt infinite..

Well I know is that to find the end of the space will take years which will feel like the space is infinite grin2.gif

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