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Corn fed or grass fed?


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#16    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 12:43 AM

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i never said that i said i dont liek surveys and out dated sites. whops there it is READ NEXT TIME. u people get realy anoying after a while. ur refering to when i was given a site that had a bunch of surveys done from 1970 till 1994 on adhd no one accepts anything realy that came from that time frame on adhd all new studies say its genetisc and i showed u liek 3 sites saying that. and when i was givne some weird doctors perosnal site and her weird view of adhd and ever other thing on earth. she seemss more like a televangelist thne a doctor sorry if i didnt accecpt her twisted views. i give sites that are up to date and accurate. dont get mad at me for not accpeting the same and i explaned why i dont liek surveys many times. (statics made me realise that there usualy crap)

They are only CRAP to you LOL you select what you want to believe...cuz I gave you links (UPDATED ONES) and you refused to believe them too happy.gif

On the other hand I agree with you on the corn and grass issue...but at the same time can see what Sheri is talking about...

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 30 May 2006 - 01:19 AM.

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#17    frogfish

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 01:40 AM

robbie got you sheri tongue.gif

Corn is actually a grass...a C4 monocot. Grass seeds are the equivalent of corn thumbsup.gif Throw some corn on the ground in front of some grazing cow, they will eat it up. Same with pigs thumbsup.gif

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#18    robbieb

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 01:45 AM

Psh tell me i dont know my biology, and what lol


#19    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 08:35 AM

Yo guys it's not a contest as to who know more about this and that...and FYI Sheri is a highly educated woman....never underestimate her original.gif

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#20    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 01:38 PM

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Psh tell me i dont know my biology, and what lol

laugh.gif translated - psh tell me I don't know how to google biology and what lol
laugh.gif

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#21    Celumnaz

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 01:50 PM

Maize and Alfalfa crops here grown specifically to feed animals and great care is taken to make sure it's healthy for the animals, or their crops don't get sold.  Something else too but can't recall atm.  Bunch of animal/biology freaks out here at the aggie depot.


#22    robbieb

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 03:20 PM

or u knwo when u major in zoology u learn some bio too


#23    Sherapy

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 05:01 PM

Zea mays indentata is the main variety grown commercially for grain and fodder, but there are other types, of zea Mays ( technically of the grasses family)  but ....Stay with the class here robbie and frog we are discussing Zea mays Indentata corn /grain that is fed to herbivores, In simple english this isn't the grass these animals should be eating... do you two know what a rumen is????? No frog a cow would not just eat corn unless it had been taught too......And after about 150 days without antibiotics the cow would not eat the grain at all.....



It kind of goes with the human is an omnivore it can eat meat, it can smoke cigarettes it can pour cups of oil and sugars down its throat, it can eat corn fed meat but at too what peril.....this is what this thread is about...... no.gif ..do you guys even care about waht you eat????Frog how do you feel about a fish eating corn???????they are being bred to do that???what does a fish eat naturally????that is what we are talking about.....

Edited by Sheri berri, 30 May 2006 - 05:08 PM.




#24    mklsgl

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 07:23 PM

From Cornell University Science News:
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Aug97...estock.hrs.html


MONTREAL -- From one ecologist's perspective, the American system of farming
grain-fed livestock consumes resources far out of proportion to the yield, accelerates soil erosion, affects world food supply and will be changing in the future.

"If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million," David Pimentel, Professor of Ecology in Cornell University's College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, reported at the July 24-26 meeting of the Canadian Society of Animal Science in Montreal. Or, if those grains were exported, it would boost the U.S. trade balance by $80 billion a year, Pimentel estimated.

With only grass-fed livestock, individual Americans would still get more than the recommended daily allowance (RDA) of meat and dairy protein, according to Pimentel's report, "Livestock Production: Energy Inputs and the Environment."

An environmental analyst and longtime critic of waste and inefficiency in agricultural practices, Pimentel depicted grain-fed livestock farming as a costly and nonsustainable way to produce animal protein. He distinguished grain-fed meat production from pasture-raised livestock, calling cattle-grazing a more reasonable use of marginal land.

Animal protein production requires more than eight times as much fossil-fuel energy than production of plant protein while yielding animal protein that is only 1.4 times more nutritious for humans than the comparable amount of plant protein, according to the Cornell ecologist's analysis.

Tracking food animal production from the feed trough to the dinner table, Pimentel found broiler chickens to be the most efficient use of fossil energy, and beef, the least. Chicken meat production consumes energy in a 4:1 ratio to protein output; beef cattle production requires an energy input to protein output ratio of 54:1. (Lamb meat production is nearly as inefficient at 50:1, according to the ecologist's analysis of U.S. Department of Agriculture statistics. Other ratios range from 13:1 for turkey meat and 14:1 for milk protein to 17:1 for pork and 26:1 for eggs.)

Animal agriculture is a leading consumer of water resources in the United States, Pimentel noted. Grain-fed beef production takes 100,000 liters of water for every kilogram of food. Raising broiler chickens takes 3,500 liters of water to make a kilogram of meat. In comparison, soybean production uses 2,000 liters for kilogram of food produced; rice, 1,912; wheat, 900; and potatoes, 500 liters. "Water shortages already are severe in the Western and Southern United States and the situation is quickly becoming worse because of a rapidly growing U.S. population that requires more water for all of its needs, especially agriculture," Pimentel observed.

Livestock are directly or indirectly responsible for much of the soil erosion in the United States, the ecologist determined. On lands where feed grain is produced, soil loss averages 13 tons per hectare per year. Pasture lands are eroding at a slower pace, at an average of 6 tons per hectare per year. But erosion may exceed 100 tons on severely overgrazed pastures, and 54 percent of U.S. pasture land is being overgrazed.

"More than half the U.S. grain and nearly 40 percent of world grain is being fed to livestock rather than being consumed directly by humans," Pimentel said. "Although grain production is increasing in total, the per capita supply has been decreasing for more than a decade. Clearly, there is reason for concern in the future."


EIGHT MEATY FACTS ABOUT ANIMAL FOOD

From "Livestock Production: Energy Inputs and the Environment"

By David Pimentel

-- WHERE'S THE GRAIN? The 7 billion livestock animals in the United States consume five times as much grain as is consumed directly by the entire American population.

-- HERBIVORES ON THE HOOF. Each year an estimated 41 million tons of plant protein is fed to U.S. livestock to produce an estimated 7 million tons of animal protein for human consumption. About 26 million tons of the livestock feed comes from grains and 15 million tons from forage crops. For every kilogram of high-quality animal protein produced, livestock are fed nearly 6 kg of plant protein.

-- FOSSIL FUEL TO FOOD FUEL. On average, animal protein production in the U.S. requires 28 kilocalories (kcal) for every kcal of protein produced for human consumption. Beef and lamb are the most costly, in terms of fossil fuel energy input to protein output at 54:1 and 50:1, respectively. Turkey and chicken meat production are the most efficient (13:1 and 4:1, respectively). Grain production, on average, requires 3.3 kcal of fossil fuel for every kcal of protein produced. The U.S. now imports about 54 percent of its oil; by the year 2015, that import figure is expected to rise to 100 percent.

-- THIRSTY PRODUCTION SYSTEMS. U.S. agriculture accounts for 87 percent of all the fresh water consumed each year. Livestock directly use only 1.3 percent of that water. But when the water required for forage and grain production is included, livestock's water usage rises dramatically. Every kilogram of beef produced takes 100,000 liters of water. Some 900 liters of water go into producing a kilogram of wheat. Potatoes are even less "thirsty," at 500 liters per kilogram.

-- HOME ON THE RANGE. More than 302 million hectares of land are devoted to producing feed for the U.S. livestock population -- about 272 million hectares in pasture and about 30 million hectares for cultivated feed grains.

-- DISAPPEARING SOIL. About 90 percent of U.S. cropland is losing soil -- to wind and water erosion -- at 13 times above the sustainable rate. Soil loss is most severe in some of the richest farming areas; Iowa loses topsoil at 30 times the rate of soil formation. Iowa has lost one-half its topsoil in only 150 years of farming -- soil that took thousands of years to form.

-- PLENTY OF PROTEIN: Nearly 7 million tons (metric) of animal protein is produced annually in the U.S. -- enough to supply every American man, woman and child with 75 grams of animal protein a day. With the addition of 34 grams of available plant protein, a total of 109 grams of protein is available per capita. The RDA (recommended daily allowance) per adult per day is 56 grams of protein for a mixed diet.

-- OUT TO PASTURE. If all the U.S. grain now fed to livestock were exported and if cattlemen switched to grass-fed production systems, less beef would be available and animal protein in the average American diet would drop from 75 grams to 29 grams per day. That, plus current levels of plant-protein consumption, would still yield more than the RDA for protein.

***************************************************************************

My sincerest apologies to Robbie because this article wasn't written this morning or yesterday or even in 2006, so according to Robbie, its value is questionable at best.

And, Robbie, perhaps if you lost your obnoxious, arrogant attitude and tried to contribute productively to the discussion, you might not incur as much counterproductive conflict and negativitity.
****************************************



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#25    Sherapy

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 07:46 PM

thanks micheal, excellent point grain fed is the least efficent way to feed the majority in the bigger picture...


the topsoil is depleted meaning it has no nutritive value....that is why it is recommended for the vegan to be sure to find a good source of B-12...b-12 came from the soil...I'm not convinced its coming in the meat ...my undestanding is a grain fed animal will eventually blow out its liver and the liver never works at optimal ability anyways its usually riddled with lesions and tumours..... i wouldn't trust that b-12 is in the meat......as a meat eater I'd look into that just to be sure....Just my 2 cents


also the waters are horrible especially here in Calif....Our water is contaminated the newest concern is percholate and it may concern some since we supply alot of the milk...percholate causes the thyroid to malfunction and its very serious in a growing child.......It seriously concerns me how much more damage a child can handle......In our whole foods stores warnings are posted on milk...i suspect warning labels will be added to the carton.......




#26    Celumnaz

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 07:58 PM

how does what mklsql posted, from 1 (one) ecologists perspective, tie in?  I don't see a problem from that article.

Only thing I've seen so far is a localized misery type situation.  The Feed Lots remind me of inner cities.


#27    mklsgl

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 08:28 PM

"Only thing I've seen so far is a localized misery type situation. The Feed Lots remind me of inner cities."

-Cel... I think you're correct in pointing this towards where it's most obvious, and that is in urban and suburban America--especially the east and west coasts. 10 miles off of the coasts are garbage dumps, literally. If you live near the beaches, just get up early in the morning (before the local chamber of commerce has time to clean it) and take a look at what washes up onshore. In suburban Phila where I grew up (like N. Jersey and S. Conn.), there used to be all kinds of farms and fresh produce/meat/dairy was abundant but now they're all gone, supplanted by gated communities full of $650,000+ houses. Food markets are all about product placement (brand recognition) and not nutrition. Whole Foods and others like Trader Joes (corporate organic markets) are finding a niche within the industry but it's still a very small one.
Perhaps you have better access to clear air, clean water and healthy meat/dairy/produce than the 30 million or so who live in the larger US metropolitan areas.

I just moved to South Florida from the Northeast 2 weeks ago and I can already sense the difference.

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#28    robbieb

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 08:53 PM

i have no problem with scientific facts about articles i do howeever have problems with articles that are entirly out dated if you compare thme to current ones that ocndridict everything the other one said like in the adhd one where in one old article it siad diet plays a part and in all the new ones it says it is not diet related at all. this article gives facts that cnat be denied by anyone and i accept this article my only point was corn is a grass. all i said originaly was corn was a grass and sherri told me no so i proved her wrong. thne me and frog fish joked its people like u more thne people liek me who dont joke and just get angry that make life miserable. stress kills more young people then meat my friend relax breath calm. i have siad when i am wrong many times on this fourm ask frogfish i will never bakc down however when i know im right so dont think you can make me.


#29    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 09:22 PM

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or u knwo when u major in zoology u learn some bio too

Translation??? Anyone? blink.gif

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#30    frogfish

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 10:17 PM

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Stay with the class here robbie and frog we are discussing Zea mays Indentata corn /grain that is fed to herbivores, In simple english this isn't the grass these animals should be eating... do you two know what a rumen is????? No frog a cow would not just eat corn unless it had been taught too......And after about 150 days without antibiotics the cow would not eat the grain at all.....

Haha, learn some biology sheri...maybe a HS level course. Cows are HERBIVORES. Last time I checked, herbivores eat GRAINS. Animals just don't eat grass alone. My Grandfather has a farm in India Sheri, you don't have experience in these matters. Throw a banana peel, corn, even some banana leaves and my cows and oxen will eat them up.

Edited by frogfish, 30 May 2006 - 10:17 PM.

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