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my moon landing theory and evidence


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#31    frogfish

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:05 AM

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Yes, there is good evidence that it was faked

There is NO good evidence that it was faked though...all these ridiculous claims can be disproved EASILY.

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#32    Cinders

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:07 AM

I am an American and I am old enough to remember watching many of the Apollo missions on TV - but I was quite young watching all this with my parents and family.  Back then, so many believed anything, and often never questioned things..

But, as I grew older, and not seeing a whole lot further gained regarding "out there"  well that REALLY bothered me- and still does. And many, as well as myself,  have seen strange things over the years out there..
Well,  I began to wonder if we really did make it to the moon and who's lying and who's telling the truth.

However, from this forum, and after reading many excellent, outstanding, and thorough posts written by MID.. well, my thoughts have been assured that we HAVE been to the moon. I am relieved and greatful.

AND MID has gained my respect by being "truthful" about other things as well.  I trust him.

Sometimes it's not what we know, but WHO we know.. and I really appreciate MID and a few others on this terrific forum for helping me along.

*cheers!*





"We are like butterflies who flutter for a day and think it's forever." ~Carl Sagan


#33    frogfish

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:14 AM

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However, from this forum, and after reading many excellent, outstanding, and thorough posts written by MID.. well, my thoughts have been assured that we HAVE been to the moon. I am relieved and greatful.

AND MID has gained my respect by being "truthful" about other things as well. I trust him.

Sometimes it's not what we know, but WHO we know.. and I really appreciate MID and a few others on this terrific forum for helping me along.

A happy ending yes.gif

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#34    punkmonkey123

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 02:21 AM

MID, i never said it was fact, it is just what i believe as proof to my opinion and theory that we faked the moon landing... i believe we could have because in that time we wanted to be the greatest, no matter how we got there, plus... the reason i believe we didnt land is because we didnt have technology to do so, or else there would have been a giant crater, caust by 6,000 (or more) pounds of thrust we used to "land" and yeat still no crater.....

i have also noticed some wierd stuff in many pictures, even though the side we came out of the LEM was covered in shadow, we werent. (odd...)

as for the flag waving, i really dont thin there is a possible wat some rod was holding it up, because you would see the eledged "supporter rod"

even though people think they debunked the shadows thery, there is still the fack that shadows were pointing in different direction, which is obvious proof of multiple light sources and the only light source available was the sun, no lamps or anything else....

lilly, i am american, and i am proud of our country, but there is sometime, where you have to belive what YOU think and not what the government makes you, me telling my mind on how i think the moon landing is fake is not insulluting them, but is showing my beliefs and what i think is evidence to what i belive was the greatest cover up in american history,

take roswell, (2nd on my list) as an example, first they said it was supposed to be the remains of a weather baloon, but since since ruber is not mettalic, they changed there story to " they were testing a ne spy baloon" LMAO!!!!!!! why would intelligent people like us make a spy device that we cannot control? (able to be proven)




#35    earthchick

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 04:17 AM

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even though people think they debunked the shadows thery, there is still the fack that shadows were pointing in different direction, which is obvious proof of multiple light sources and the only light source available was the sun, no lamps or anything else....




Did you not even bother to read my earlier post on that?


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#36    punkmonkey123

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 04:48 AM

how could we get source from a second sun or star or whatever like... alot of light yaers away?


i dont think it is possible


#37    psyche101

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 05:31 AM

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lilly, i am american, and i am proud of our country, but there is sometime, where you have to belive what YOU think and not what the government makes you, me telling my mind on how i think the moon landing is fake is not insulluting them, but is showing my beliefs and what i think is evidence to what i belive was the greatest cover up in american history,

take roswell, (2nd on my list) as an example, first they said it was supposed to be the remains of a weather baloon, but since since ruber is not mettalic, they changed there story to " they were testing a ne spy baloon" LMAO!!!!!!! why would intelligent people like us make a spy device that we cannot control? (able to be proven)



I am not American, and even I am proud of the achievement these fellows made. Your beliefs are insulting to these fellows because they were there Like so many others you put much more faith in goverment than it deserves. It is an organisation like any other, run by a multitude of people with it's problems. I really do not think there is a  government organisation capable of pulling of such a hoax. They are just not competent enough. This is an idea you are playing with for personal gratification. You are saying to those men that they are liars. You wouldnt like that would you? This is why you are seen as offensive. We are pretty lucky to have someone who has been involved come here and share their experiences of what is a massive human achievment first hand with us.

Roswell, how about this for the other side of the coin. How on earth did the recovered "unbreakable" material break on impact? I think both sides are a little guilty on this one.

Edited by psyche101, 31 May 2006 - 05:32 AM.

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#38    AROCES

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 06:39 AM

To big of an operation and too many people involved for it to be a hoax.
Would not have taken long before someone with a high position from NASA, Pentagon or Capitol to come out, write a book about it and cash in if it was a hoax.


#39    earthchick

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 06:39 AM

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how could we get source from a second sun or star or whatever like... alot of light yaers away?
i dont think it is possible


That isn't at all what I said, so I guess you didn't read it. This is what I said:

Quote



In much the same way as the moon is a source of reflected light from the sun to us here on Earth, viewed from the moon the Earth also reflects some sunlight back at the moon. Therefore, there are two light sources, albeit, one much brighter than the other.


Google the word "earthshine". When on the moon, the Earth would be the second source of light.




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#40    DBunker

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 07:56 AM

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However, from this forum, and after reading many excellent, outstanding, and thorough posts written by MID.. well, my thoughts have been assured that we HAVE been to the moon. I am relieved and greatful.

AND MID has gained my respect by being "truthful" about other things as well.  I trust him.



MID is without a doubt the undisputed Apollo expert on this forum. Listen and learn people.


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#41    Lilly

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 09:20 PM

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lilly, i am american, and i am proud of our country, but there is sometime, where you have to belive what YOU think and not what the government makes you, me telling my mind on how i think the moon landing is fake is not insulluting them, but is showing my beliefs and what i think is evidence to what i belive was the greatest cover up in american history,


Good Grief! The government doesn't make me think anything. If you knew me, you'd realize that this idea is almost humorous. Scientific inquiry leads me...certainly not politicians or spin doctors of any sort!

The evidence that the moon landing were hoaxed is absolutely without scientific merit. Have you read Jay's Clavius site regarding photo analysis? If not, then you really need to set aside some time to read this information.

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#42    MID

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 10:57 PM

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Add me to that list. I feel it is shameful to even suggest these fellows did not say what they did. Some crackpot conspiracy theorist comes up with a bunch of crazy ideas and so many jump on the bandwagon.
At least to thinking people these conspiracy theorists are seen for what they really are, shame they have the opportunity to propgate their ridiculous daydreams to people wihtout knowledge on the subject and gain support in this fashion.
Such allegations should be regarded as treason.

MID, please excuse my ignorance, I take it you were invloved in the Appollo mission - did you go to the Moon?



Thanks, psyche...
I of course agree with what you've said, and with what many others have said on this thread regarding the Apollo conspiracy "theories", and the somewhat treasonous nature of propagating such a silly idea, which of course dishonors those who did this thing, and especially those who gave their lives in the effort (as Lilly has so aptly pointed out).

No, I did not go to the moon, psyche.   There were 12 very special men who walked there.  In fact, there were many very special and equally qualified men who flew these, and all the Apollo missions in addition to the 12 who actually landed, and there were hundreds of people who worked in Mission Control and in the back rooms who were equally responsible and equally as special in their abilities (many of whom I considered role models)...as well as the hundreds of thousands of others who worked their hearts out on their respective areas.

For my part I prefer not to delve into my past history.  I will say that Mercury, Gemini and Apollo shaped my life and character, and I was priveleged to be around in that fantastic time in history.  I just know something about it, and I like to help others understand what happened, both from a technical standpoint (while attempting not to be inaccessible), and from an emotional standpoint...because believe me, that was an emotional effort!




#43    MID

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 11:00 PM

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I am an American and I am old enough to remember watching many of the Apollo missions on TV - but I was quite young watching all this with my parents and family.  Back then, so many believed anything, and often never questioned things..

But, as I grew older, and not seeing a whole lot further gained regarding "out there"  well that REALLY bothered me- and still does. And many, as well as myself,  have seen strange things over the years out there..
Well,  I began to wonder if we really did make it to the moon and who's lying and who's telling the truth.

However, from this forum, and after reading many excellent, outstanding, and thorough posts written by MID.. well, my thoughts have been assured that we HAVE been to the moon. I am relieved and greatful.

AND MID has gained my respect by being "truthful" about other things as well.  I trust him.

Sometimes it's not what we know, but WHO we know.. and I really appreciate MID and a few others on this terrific forum for helping me along.

*cheers!*


Cinders,
blush.gif

My deepest gratitude to you, for your kind words...



#44    MID

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 12:02 AM

[attachmentid=26063]

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MID, i never said it was fact, it is just what i believe as proof to my opinion and theory that we faked the moon landing... i believe we could have because in that time we wanted to be the greatest, no matter how we got there, plus... the reason i believe we didnt land is because we didnt have technology to do so, or else there would have been a giant crater, caust by 6,000 (or more) pounds of thrust we used to "land" and yeat still no crater.....

i have also noticed some wierd stuff in many pictures, even though the side we came out of the LEM was covered in shadow, we werent. (odd...)

as for the flag waving, i really dont thin there is a possible wat some rod was holding it up, because you would see the eledged "supporter rod"

even though people think they debunked the shadows thery, there is still the fack that shadows were pointing in different direction, which is obvious proof of multiple light sources and the only light source available was the sun, no lamps or anything else....



punkmonkey...

It's OK to believe something.   That's OK, until it is shown to you that your beliefs are based on what I refer to as un-informed impressions or speculations.

This is not a criticism of you, mind you.  I have said before that it is entirely logical to me to realize that an entire generation-or-so of people could be led to beleive in a fallacy by others that have a commercial motive and play upon the fact that some people were not around when this thing happened, and have little or no knowledge regarding the science and technology behind it.

This is one of the reasons why I rather insist that people with questions or doubts get into one aspect at a time, because sometimes the explanations require a little time.

You have put forth several points of contention above.  Again, too many to address in one post .

I will say this:

Regarding photographic anomalies,  There is absolutely nothing in any Apollo lunar surface photo that shows anything but natural effects.  I can explain to you about the very effective backlighting that was present on the moon (due to the lack of atmoshere), something which was described by Neil Armstrong about 1 minute into the first EVA on the lunar surface.

I can also tell you that in the lunar photos where shadows appear (on the two-dimensional  depiction of a three-dimensional scene)  to be going in different directions, that such a representation is perfectly natural, and if the shadows didn't appear that way, something would be very wrong with physical reality on the moon (in fact, the same phenomena can be observed in many earth photos).

As to the flag, I can assure you that the horizontal support was in fact there.  
You cannot see it because the flag itself was wrapped around the thin metal bar, which the astronauts deployed in order to hold the flag out horizontally, because the flag would not be visible otherwise, since there was no air on the moon to make the flag blow (it would just hang there limply, as any flag on earth does on a windless day).

Click on the picture at the top of this post.  This is identified as AS17-134-20384, taken during Apollo 17 in December of 1972.  I think you'll be able to see exactly what I'm talking about vis-a-vis the flag.

In your first paragraph, you state that we wanted to be the greatest, no matter how we got there.

I will say that we wanted to win a race in space, and we wanted to win it for political reasons, initially.  We also, however, wanted to win it in the best way we could do it. It was the American way.  That's why so many worked for about a decade to accomplish the goal, with a great deal of sweat, blood, and tears.  And, contrary to the Soviets, we did it in full view of the world.  Apollo, for those of us who participated, or even watched it all unfold, became much more than something bordered by the banality of politics...it became almost a spiritual quest, something that reflected the expansion of human consciousness...

I will also tell you that we did indeed have the technology.  In fact, we invented the technology (that's why it took the best part of a decade to do this thing).  And...we proved ourselves the best at what we attempted to do, because we did it.  The Soviets failed, lost the initial race, destroyed their lunar landing capability in July 1969, and eventually gave up that particular aspect of their efforts (this is not to diminish what they actually accomplished).

Engineeers at Grumman spent years working their butts off on the LM...technology that proved itself on Apollo 9, and 10, and of course on 11, 12, 13 (magnificently), 14, 15, 16, and 17.   And I will explain to you, if you wish, that the thrust that the LM DPS was pumping when the LMs were close to the surface was not anywhere close to 6000 pounds, and that the actual exhaust pressure (lbs/cu in) coming out of the DPS engine bell was nowhere near strong enough to do anything but what it actually did....blow the regolith away beneath the LM.  It was no where near powerful enough to induce a "giant crater" in the extremely compact and hard substrate that existed a couple inches below the surface dust.

I understand your doubts, but the point is, you'll have to address one thing at a time, because the explanations may take a little "explaining".

By all means, if you have these questions, pick one, and ask.  I'll be glad to help you out.


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#45    MID

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 12:08 AM

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how could we get source from a second sun or star or whatever like... alot of light yaers away?
i dont think it is possible



You are correct in this respect, punk...

Earthshine is a source of light certainly, but as pertains to Apollo lunar landings and the lighting present when they happened, there was no significant impact of earthlight on the surface of the moon.

We landed in broad daylight, with a sun shining unfiltered by an atmosphere on the surface.  That light, brighter than anything seen on this planet, far and away outshown the earth's reflected light.

There was only one effective lighting source on the moon.  The sun.





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