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Do children have a 6th sense?


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#16    gonzowalker

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 08:47 PM

QUOTE (Seraphina @ Oct 16 2003, 08:30 PM)
It's a muscle reaction, and has absolutely nothing to do with the brain, skipping out thought processes completely.


I thought all muscle reactions were controlled by the brain? Even in a reflex test, doesn't electrical impulses from the brain tell the knee to kick, or is it just bypassing the brain altogether? I'm not a doctor, so I don't really know.          

You explained everything very well though! Keep it up, it's good stuff.

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#17    CASTOR

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 09:49 PM

a reflex comes from the spinal cord. the stimulus travels to the spinal cord and then the reaction traves back to the muscle for a response. the spinal cord transmits the info to the brain as it gets the stimulus. so the reaction is occuring before or about the same time the brain finds out about it. its really crazy, but i love to study stuff like this.

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#18    Diamond JO

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Posted 17 October 2003 - 02:30 PM

QUOTE (Seraphina @ Oct 16 2003, 03:31 PM)
Memories - an actual event that occured, and that you experienced, that you can recall.

Instinct - a conditioned responce to a set of circumstances or conditions. These are usually natural responces, based on how our brain is wired. They have nothing to do with memory...memory induces a thought out responce to a situation based on experience, instinct is subconscious.

Memory: the part on your computer that stores information. To remember something such as where did we go when it got cold and other conditioned responses

Instinct: information that is passed on from generation to generation

[QUOTE]Instinct - a conditioned responce to a set of circumstances or conditions.

Do you not understand what the word conditoned means?

So where exactly do your animals get their instinct from, if they are not passed on? They just all decide to fly south for the winter because it seems like a good idea? How do they know not to eat cane toads? Of course information is passed on from generation to generation. You can believe in spooks and all the other nonsense, but anything that is based on rational ideas and you cant cope. Reality is far more interesting than chasing rainbows.


#19    Seraphina

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Posted 17 October 2003 - 02:46 PM

...*blinks*...are you actually trying to attack a biology student, who probably knows more about this than you do? Or perhaps you simply think I can't cope with 'rational ideas', because you lack the patience and understanding to actually read what I posted properly...I see this requires putting things even closer to ground level, so allow me to simplify it even more, just for you wink2.gif

Yes, instinct is information that is passed on in a sense...however, it is not passed on through memory, but rather certain gene sequences that cause an animal to behave in a certain manner.

The reason they exist in every generation without need of an organism actually experiencing an event beforehand is they inherit the genes that cause them to react in this way from their parents, who in turn inherited it from their parents, and so on and so forth...

As with all natural selection, the ancestors of modern creatures that did not have these genes did not survive to reproduce, and so only these 'good genes' were passed on.

I never once disputed that instinct was not a passed on trait...I said it was about how an organisms brain was genetically wired to a undergo a certain responce. I said memory was not passed on, since memory is stored in a certain area of the brain, not in the chromosomes, it is impossible for it to be passed on from parent to child.

Since we're on the subject of reality, the next time you decide to start insulting me over trying to answer the question of another member using an established, scientific explanation, perhaps you should think a little harder before you do. I don't enjoy having to break down my answer into a boring, step-by-step process for the benefit of people who refuse to accept it the first time.

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#20    babyforrest

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Posted 17 October 2003 - 03:25 PM

QUOTE (Diamond JO @ Oct 17 2003, 09:30 AM)
You can believe in spooks and all the other nonsense, but anything that is based on rational ideas and you cant cope. Reality is far more interesting than chasing rainbows.

There is nothing I hate more people that make snap judgements on others.  This person just assumed that because Seraphina was posting on a forum called "Unexplained Mysteries" that her arguement would be ridiculous and based solely on "spooks and other nonsense".  This person is so negative that all he wanted to do was argue his point that there is no such things as paranormal happenings that he didn't even bother to read her posts.  I understood everything that she said, and I don't think that that is because I, too, am a biology student.  Think before you attack.

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#21    Pious Augustus

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Posted 17 October 2003 - 07:42 PM

this topic reminded me of a 3 year old my mum had taken care of a few years back...
her name was Raven, and she would always scare the bejeezuz out of me, because of the things she would say...
she always spoke about a "mean lady" or "bad lady" and she also mentioned a "nice one" named "Michael"...whenever anyone would ask who they were she would whisper, "shhh, the mean lady might hear..." Thinking she was just playing a game everyone would play along.
One day my mum saw her under the dining room table, and she asked her, "what are you doing, Raven?" and she replied, "Michael told me to hide from the bad lady." My mum began to get apprehensive because she clearly saw that Raven was upset, so she then asked her, "where is the bad lady?"
My mum said Raven pointed to the doorway of the basement and said, "she went down there..." Because she had to get some laundry done anyways, my mother decided to go down to the basement with Raven and show her that noone was down there. As they went down the basement, my mother said Raven was talking to "Michael" all the way down the stairs. Apparently she was telling "Michael" to watch out for the "mean lady" and let her know when she comes back. Upon hearing this, my mum got freaked out, but when about loading the washer and dryer. However, my mum's task was cut short because she became aware of a terrible smell of rotten eggs and dead animals(this is how she described the smell to me) All of a sudden Raven says to my mother, "Uh oh, she's here, but dont worry, Michael is here too." Then a few seconds later, Raven replies, "Oh she's gone, its okay..." It was right then that my mother noticed the smell was gone...
My mother was too freaked out to gather her wits, so she just ran up the stairs with Raven in her arms...
This event might not seem very odd, but a few days later I was doing a project on Saint Joan of Arc and so I had various books scattered about the table. Raven grabbed one and started flipping the pages and said, "Look its Michael!" I got up and looked at the picture she was showing me and saw before me a painting of Saint Michael the Archangel...
this was enough to freak me out

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Take my love, take my land
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Burn the land and boil the sea
You can't take the sky from me
There's no place I can be
Since I found Serenity
But you can't take the sky from me

#22    gonzowalker

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Posted 17 October 2003 - 09:04 PM

If I offended you Seraphina, I didn't mean to. Was just asking a question about something I didn't know. You can probably tell I'm not a Biologist,  I'm a Sheetrocker. grin2.gif  

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#23    fruitcakesanonymous

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Posted 18 October 2003 - 04:24 AM

20 years ago the world was told we need to wear sunscreen. Now 20 years later, we are told that the sunscreen doesnt block out the UV rays that do the damage. So please dont insult my intelligence by quoting from books as if they are the gospel truth. Half the world of science belives in black holes, the other half doesnt, some believe that a meteor killed the dinosaurs while others dont, some belive in big bangs while others believe in string or cosmic dust. So whatever you are or think you are is irrelevant, I wouldnt care if you were a professor or the reincarnation of Einstein.
    There were no insults, so if you felt offended then it is most likely a bruised ego. It was your interpretaion of what I had said that was wrong, and that comes down to your desire to see one point of view over another, i.e you are biased so you misinterpret. Memory is stored in every cell in your body, even though the primary place we acknowledge as the centre for memory storage is the brain. Science is a very slow, clumsy and primitive medium, relying on picking things to peices and expecting the evidence to supply the answer rather than using a logical thinking process.
    Any one can say what something isnt. It isnt a UFO, its a weather balloon, its a an aircraft. This doesnt mean it cant be true because all you have done is show alternatives, i.e opinion. The only way to know for sure is to try to prove it correct, if you are not doing that then you are just chasing rainbows, searching for what you want to believe and avoiding the possibility that your belief is the wrong one.
    You confused memory with memories. So instead of wasting your time quoting from a book, try thinking outside the square and think for yourself.
[QUOTE]The reason they exist in every generation without need of an organism actually experiencing an event beforehand is they inherit the genes that cause them to react in this way from their parents, who in turn inherited it from their parents, and so on and so forth...

Certainly genes are passed on, however the information contained in genes are learned responses. An animal learns not to eat cane toads because it gets sick and then that information is passed on, it isnt just born with a natural knowledge not to eat cane toads. Therefore it is stored onformation, therefore it is memory.


    


#24    Seraphina

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Posted 18 October 2003 - 04:11 PM

QUOTE (fruitcakesanonymous @ Oct 18 2003, 04:24 AM)
The only way to know for sure is to try to prove it correct, if you are not doing that then you are just chasing rainbows, searching for what you want to believe and avoiding the possibility that your belief is the wrong one.
    You confused memory with memories. So instead of wasting your time quoting from a book, try thinking outside the square and think for yourself.



And I think you're confusing logic for getting flustered and angry, trying to argue your case in a manner that's about as fluent as a drunk trying to make sense of Das Kapital.

You're arguing against the theories I quote by saying "they're not proven! Now I'll huff, and I'll puff..." While your theories are little more than a mixture of hot air, and frustration at being treated like an idiot in my previous post. What, exactly has proven your theories? Given that what I'm saying has been researched, investigated, and refined over the course of years...yours has sprung up out of your own head, has about as much weight behind it as a thrown feather, and you seem to think it's true, just because you said so tongue.gif

Perhaps, if you actually do what you're preaching, and "go out and prove" your theories, I might actually hold them in greater regard...however until you stop doing nothing but blowing hot air, kindly don't waste my time, and go out and get an education. You'll likely find that these 'books' you seem to despise are written by people who are significantly more intelligent than you are.

And so are the people that read them...

If you're going to actually argue that memory can be passed on to a child, let's go ahead and argue that other things that have absolutely nothing to do with genes can be passed on..."Hey, I lost a leg in a car crash! Oh dear god! What if this injury is stored in my cells, and passed on to my children! Shock! Horror!"[/

So what colour is the sky in your world?

gonzowalker - no offence at all, happy to help original.gif

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#25    fruitcakesanonymous

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Posted 19 October 2003 - 01:21 AM

[[QUOTE]are you actually trying to attack a biology student, who probably knows more about this than you do?]


#26    fruitcakesanonymous

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Posted 19 October 2003 - 07:26 AM

[QUOTE]
There is nothing I hate more people that make snap judgements on others. This person just assumed that because Seraphina was posting on a forum called "Unexplained Mysteries" that her arguement would be ridiculous and based solely on "spooks and other nonsense".

And this is not a snap judgemnt because...........? If you hate hypocrites then you better get out the razor blades. I made no such assumption.
   What I said was that they find it easy to believe in ideas that are fantastic, or what most people would find difficult to believe in, therefore not taking much convincing, or readily accepting something that is difficult to accept, yet when it comes to accept an idea that is basic and made up of common rational ideas, that should be easily acceptable to most people, they kick up a fuss and fight it to the death, as if I had just claimed to have seen a yeti water skiing behind the lochness monster.
      Nothing to do with her argument, but the ability to embrace anything the differs from her own belief; to only take the negative aproach.


#27    fruitcakesanonymous

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Posted 19 October 2003 - 08:08 AM

QUOTE (Seraphina @ Oct 17 2003, 02:46 PM)
...*blinks*...are you actually trying to attack a biology student, who probably knows more about this than you do?

That about sums it up, you assume way too much. (there was no need for that kind of remark )You assume that you must be correct, because my idea doesnt agree with what you think you have read in a book. Therefore since you are a biology student, you must be correct, therefore I must be wrong, therefore there is no need to rationalize what I have written, so you scan, rather than read, therefore cant understand what is written. Since not every second word, is a ten syllable piece of jargon, that has only appeared in the most recent edition of the dictionary, you assume that I cant possibly understand anything from your bible.
   You apparently think biology is difficult therefore you need to be really smart to understand. take a reality check, it aint that difficult, if you think it is difficult then its your lack of intellect that is at fault. I bet you cant wait to go arround introducing yourself as Doctor can you? What a thrill. Hello this is Dr Frasier upmyself and his brother Dr Niles evenmore upmyself, and this is plumber Bob and carpenter john, lawyer bill and postman pete, all members of the silly names society. You know why people get called Dr and Prof? Because they originated as travellors so no one could remember their name. Its not a title, just a bad habit people got into that next year will no longer exist.
   Try living on planet earth for a change. The idea of a forum, is to share ideas, because you may come accross something that no one else has. New ideas don't just mean ideas that add weight to what you already believe. It means if someone has a different opinion to one that is already established, that you think, O.K I never thought of it that way before, lets see if it can work". you cant do that because you use the program " That idea seems opposed  to mine, therefore it must be wrong, so what do I already know that can prove it wrong" New ideas means exploring new ideas even if it means looking at the possibility that you may be wrong, otherwise all you are doing is repeating the same opinion over and over again; its a weather balloon, its a secret aircraft, its a flying squirrel, its a........

I edited one part of this because of people's feelings ok?

Edited by Celticwitch, 19 October 2003 - 08:19 AM.


#28    fruitcakesanonymous

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Posted 19 October 2003 - 08:29 AM

QUOTE (Seraphina @ Oct 18 2003, 04:11 PM)
[You're arguing against the theories I quote by saying "they're not proven! Now I'll huff, and I'll puff..." While your theories are little more than a mixture of hot air, and frustration at being treated like an idiot in my previous post. What, exactly has proven your theories? Given that what I'm saying has been researched, investigated, and refined over the course of years...yours has sprung up out of your own head, has about as much weight behind it as a thrown feather, and you seem to think it's true, just because you said so tongue.gif

Perhaps, if you actually do what you're preaching, and "go out and prove" your theories, I might actually hold them in greater regard...however until you stop doing nothing but blowing hot air, kindly don't waste my time, and go out and get an education. You'll likely find that these 'books' you seem to despise are written by people who are significantly more intelligent than you are.

And so are the people that read them...

If you're going to actually argue that memory can be passed on to a child, let's go ahead and argue that other things that have absolutely nothing to do with genes can be passed on..."Hey, I lost a leg in a car crash! Oh dear god! What if this injury is stored in my cells, and passed on to my children! Shock! Horror!"[/

I was  not saying that because they are not proven that they are just as likely to be wrong. I  was saying that science is shown, to continually overturn previously established theories all the time, and that it is also subject to many mistakes, as well as contradictions. You are quoting from books, as if they are gospel, as well as suggesting that since you are a part of that, that it should be assumed that you are most probably correct, therefore how dare I challenge you. You seen to take everything personally, and therefore misinterpret what is written. The whole basis of your argument is not on rationalizing what I have said but simply reinforcing that you must be right, because it comes from a source that is reliable. So all you are doing is finding new ways to express that ideology.

Given that what I'm saying has been researched, investigated, and refined over the course of years...yours has sprung up out of your own head, has about as much weight behind it as a thrown feather, and you seem to think it's true, just because you said so

Sunsceen was researched for 20 years, and then there were the thalidomides and exploding space shuttles, in fact science makes more mistakes than the rest of the world combined. I wouldnt trust a scientist to write the instruction manual for a pair of shoe laces.
     Where exactly do you think theories come from before they get into books? The magic theory fairy, or the magical land of theories? They come out of peoples heads. You are confusing evidence with proof. Proof requires thinking to understand, evidence requires nothing more than simple child like gullibility, to believe anything you see, because it looks impressive.
   Obviously a lost leg isnt going to passed onto a child, why use such a childish idea? What is your problem, you seem to have a real hard time if anyone suggests that you may be wrong,as if it is a personal insult? No wondeer science makes so many mistakes, no one will listen to each other, too bad if you happen to be on board a space shuttle;  too high in the sky ego tripping.


#29    seeking

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Posted 19 October 2003 - 08:41 AM

wow man chill out, your taking it a little extreme, no?

no one said you have to agree with her statements (statements based on scientific evidence mind you) but all you have to do is explain your side, she never attacked anyone, maybe shes wrong, maybe she not, but at least she didnt get all uppity like you did, all your posts prove to me is that you're childish, and imo this site is not a childish one, many people here come with intelligent ideas and many come to learn (like my self) these ideas, personally i dont enjoy this nonsense of an argument, and i doubt anyone else does either, at least we know were you got your screen name from...


and note to sepharina, i am definetly not a bio student, far from it, and i understood your post 100%, dont play these games with this kid, no need to explain yourself....i mean its just the internet for christs sake!

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#30    Seraphina

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Posted 19 October 2003 - 10:42 AM

heh...well, thanks for the shout out nonetheless wink2.gif

But yes, I do intend to leave him to his ranting for now. After reading his...endless...string of posts that don't seem to prove much except he doesn't trash talk as subtly as I do huh.gif

But yeah, I'll leave him alone, no worries.

Juuust as one final side note though: You'll find sunscreen is developed my manufacturers, not by scientific circles. Their companies may well have a group of chemists working away from an original formulae that may have been thought up by people who knew what they were doing...but you'll find the 'chemists' in the cosmetics and similar fields have the goal of selling something...not of protecting us from the sun tongue.gif

Commercials are the ones lying there, not science botching up.


Buuuut, now I'll leave you in peace cool.gif


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