25 replies to this topic

[AztecInca]

Debate suggested by Paranoid Android.

Debate Topics: Which is the biggest and greatest sporting event on the planet? The World Cup or the Olympics?

We are after two participants. One to debate that the World cup is not only the biggest, but the greatest sporting event on the planet, while the other participant will debate that it is in fact the Olympics.

This is a 1v1 formal debate.

It will consist of an Introduction, 5 bodily posts and a conclusion from each participant. No Flaming, bad manners or profantities will be tolerated. Please make sure you quote ALL your sources!

Please be aware that:

There is a point deduction for debaters who fail to make a post within the 7 day time frame. The deductions will be 2 points for every day the participant fails to post after the 7 days.

This is to ensure that debates continue in a timely fashion. If for any reason you cannot post within the 7 days, please ensure that you let myself or Tiddlyjen know to avoid having the points taken off your debate.

If, however the participant does not then attempt to make a post for up to 2 weeks after the 7 day rule has started an immediate disqualification will occur.

Good luck!

Edited by AztecInca, 08 August 2006 - 10:59 AM.

[Paranoid Android]

Seeing as we're in the grip of World Cup fever, I think I'm going to be disadvantaged, but I'll debate for the Olympics, ok

[AztecInca]

Thanks PA!

We are now just looking for one participant to debate that the World Cup is not only the biggest but greatest sporting event on the planet.

[Crazy_Lemons]

I'll do that.

[AztecInca]

^Thank-you Aero_dynamic.

Aero_dynamic will be debating that the World cup is not only the biggest, but the greatest sporting event on the planet while Paranoid Android will debate that it is in fact the Olympics that is the biggest and greatest event around.

[Paranoid Android]

Thank you for accepting this debate, Aero Dynamic.  Good luck

The Olympics is the greatest sporting event in the world, bar none.  When put up against the FIFA World Cup, there is no contest.  Don’t get me wrong, I love the World Cup.  Like many Australians, I woke up at 5am to watch Australia play Croatia in their final group match.  Yes, the World Cup is a great event.  That is not in question.  What is in question is whether it is greater than the Olympics.  When we break down the two events, it is clear the Olympics are the greater of the two.  Throughout this debate, I shall discuss these main points.  

- the greater nationalistic exposure of the Olympics – 32 World Cup nations vs. 200 Olympic nations

- the greater appeal of the Olympics – one sport vs. hundreds of sports/events

- I shall discuss a phenomenon unique to the Olympics, what I will dub the “Moussambani Factor” in honour of Olympic athlete Eric Moussambani.

- the greater historical roots of the Olympics – the Olympics has ties to Ancient Greece.  The World Cup goes back to 1930.

- The sheer size of the Olympics – the World Cup has 64 games over the period of 4 weeks.  The Olympics has 14 hours a day of continuous television coverage.

As well as addressing these points, I shall also attempt to rebut my opponent’s points.  Again, I wish you the best of luck in this debate
Over to you, Aero dynamic

[Crazy_Lemons]

Good luck Paranoid Android.

The world cup is about football,the worlds greatest sport.Why is it the best sport ever?. It's because football is one of the only sporting events that can make you jump out of your seat in rage or joy and shout at the tv and/or the ref.It's on of the only envents that can make a grown man or women cry.

Don't get me wrong,i love the Olympics,but its to simple.The world cup is much more complex.Eg:

.The qualifying rounds:

World cup:They have to play other people to qualify.
Olympics:Every one enters.
.Starters:
World cup:Group stages:  
Team 1 v team 2
Team 3 v team 4
Team 1 v team 3
Team 2 v team 4
Team 1 v team 4
Team 2 v team 3

Olympics:Events start for gold,silver and bronze by the fastest times/best scores going thoughto the finals.

.knock out stage's:  
World cup:   Last 8=   Group winner 1 vgroup 2 runner up (1)
                                Group 2 winner v group 1 runner up(2)
                                Group 3 winner v group 4 runner up(3)
                                Group 4 winner v group 3 runner up(4)
                                Group 5 winner v group 6 runner up(5)
                                Group 6 winner v group 5 runner up(6)
                                Group 7 winner v group 8 runner up(7)
                                Group 8 winner v group 7 runner up(8)

        Quarter-finals=  Match 1 winner v match 2 winner(1)
                                Match 3 winner v match 4 winner(2)
                                Match 5 winner v match 6 winner(3)
                                Match 7 winner v match 8 winner(4)

           semi  finals=  Match 1 winner v match 2 winner(1)
                               Match 3 winner v match 4 winner(2)

                   Finals=  Match 1 winner v match 2 winner(1)
      
                   Winner of match 1= World cup winner

Olympics:Fastest times/best scores go though to gold,silver,bronze round.

So thats my reason for why the world cup is the best and greatest sporting event in the world=
.Complex-We don't like it simple(Apart from, well,simple people)
.Makes you happy/sad.
.Makes you shout at the ref as well as other reasons!

Edited by Aero_dynamic, 03 July 2006 - 05:35 PM.

[Paranoid Android]

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Good luck Paranoid Android.

Thank you

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Don't get me wrong,i love the Olympics,but its to simple.The world cup is much more complex.Eg:
…Olympics:Fastest times/best scores go though to gold,silver,bronze round.

I’ll deal more with this in my second post, but for now, I should just like to point out that the Olympics also has team sports (including Football/soccer), and those are based on group phase and knockout rounds.  The teams all play each other, and the highest ranked then play off for Gold, Silver and Bronze in a knockout.

Even two-time FIFA player of the year Ronaldinho acknowledges the pride of place of the Olympics in the footballing schedule.  In the wake of Brazil’s recent loss to France in the quarterfinals, Ronaldinho is quoted as saying:  The Olympics and the World Cup are competitions that are very important and every player would like to do well in them.  It’s very sad when we can’t (quoted from the article “Ronaldinho just a pale shadow”, printed in Sydney’s ‘The Daily Telegraph’, Monday, July 3, 2006. pg 33)

Quote

World cup: They have to play other people to qualify

Thank you for bringing this up.  It leads straight into the first main point of my debate:

Body post 1 – Nationalistic Exposure

The Olympics is the true “world” event.  200 nations took part in the Athens Olympics.  A comprehensive list of those nations is available at this site here -  Link

Compare this to 32 nations in the World Cup finals.  As Aero_dynamic has pointed out, these 32 teams were chosen after extensive culling through qualifying rounds.  This does provide the finals with a high quality game, but it also reduces the national exposure of the competition.  Teams that do not qualify for the finals are non-entities.  No one cares a bit what happens to them.

Senegal set the world alight in 2002 with their enterprising play, and made it to the quarterfinals.  Senegal quickly became everyone's second favourite team (or first favourite if their team wasn't in the finals at all.  Senegal failed to qualify for the finals this year - no one noticed, except perhaps the population of Senegal.  Why is this, except that no one cares about teams beyond the 32 nations that did qualify.

BY contrast, at the Olympics, 200 nations can cheer on their athletes in various sports.  200 nations who can sit back with national pride and say "I'm proud to be an *insert country of origin here*"  

For most people, the World Cup becomes just another event.  A spectacle for sure, an event worthy of notice, an experience to enjoy, but ultimately an event that has no real significance for the majority of the world.  The Olympics keeps its universal appeal.  Its nationalism is clear, symbolised by the five intertwining Olympic rings, representing the five parts of the world dedicated to the Olympic spirit of cooperation and healthy competition.

My next post shall elaborate this further, as I discuss the greater appeal that the Olympics has in enveloping multiple sports.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 04 July 2006 - 02:17 PM.

[Crazy_Lemons]

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I’ll deal more with this in my second post, but for now, I should just like to point out that the Olympics also has team sports (including Football/soccer), and those are based on group phase and knockout rounds.  The teams all play each other, and the highest ranked then play off for Gold, Silver and Bronze in a knockout.

This is true,thanks for pointing it out!
Issue 1:
As Paranoid Android pointed out,the world cup has diffrent teams playing each year,old and new.An examplle of this is that brazil,england,italy,west germany and france are expected to get thought to the finals,but  new teams like trinadad and tabago and austraila are expected to be out by the knock out.But this isn't all ways the case,eg:

Group G
.Brasil    
.Japan
.Croatia
.Austraila

Expected winners
Winner=Brazil
Runner up= Croatia

Real results
winner=Brazil
Runner up=australia

Eg 2: Expected winners=Brazil
Brazil v Croatia=1-0
Brazil v australia=2-0
Brazil vs japan=4-1

Knock out stages
Last 16:
Brazil vs Ganga=3-0
Quarter finals:
Brazil vs France=0-1

The 2006 world cup is Australia's 1st world cup.
So the world cup is not always the same unlike some events in the olympics and winter.olympics:eg:Ice hockey-canada

[Paranoid Android]

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the world cup has diffrent teams playing each year,old and new.An examplle of this is that brazil,england,italy,west germany and france are expected to get thought to the finals,but new teams like trinadad and tabago and austraila are expected to be out by the knock out.But this isn't all ways the case,eg:

In other words, the first point of your debate is that there are occasionally upsets?!?!?  My friend, favourites don’t always win The World Cup does not have a monopoly on unexpected results.  It happens all the time.  

Quote

The 2006 world cup is Australia's 1st world cup.

It’s only a minor point, but it is in fact Australia’s second Cup (they qualified in 1974).

Quote

So the world cup is not always the same unlike some events in the olympics and winter.olympics:eg:Ice hockey-canada

The key phrase is "some events".  There are always upset victories, maybe not in Ice Hockey, but in plenty of other sports.  Again you’ve given me a perfect comment to break into the main point of my post – thank you

Body Post 2 – One Many Sports

As great as the World Cup is, it is still only one sport.  The Olympics span 35 sports and over 400 separate events.

Summer sports:
Aquatics
Archery
Athletics
Badminton
Baseball
Basketball
Boxing
Canoe / kayak
Cycling
Equestrian
Fencing
Football
Gymnastics
Handball
Hockey
Judo
Modern Pentathlon
Rowing
Sailing
Shooting
Softball
Table Tennis
Taekwondo
Tennis
Triathlon
Volleyball
Weightlifting
Wrestling

Winter sports:
Biathlon
Bobsleigh
Curling
Ice Hockey
Luge
Skating
Skiing

Source

These sports don’t include their specific events (100m or 200m sprint for example, or Freestyle, Butterfly or Backstroke).

As you can see through this list, the Olympics has a greater universal appeal through catering to more people’s interests.  The World Cup caters to soccer fans.  What of those who don’t like soccer?  What interest does the World Cup hold for someone who doesn’t like the sport?  Mostly, none.  Step up Mr. Olympics.  The appeal of having 35 different sports is obvious.  Don’t like soccer, watch the swimming or the shooting or the horses or the hockey or the basketball or the tennis or… you get the idea.  Of course, if you do enjoy soccer, you can watch that also at the Olympics.

My next post shall discuss the importance of winning and losing (or is it about how you play the game???) in relation to the Olympics and the World Cup.    

[Crazy_Lemons]

Quote

In other words, the first point of your debate is that there are occasionally upsets?!?!?  My friend, favourites don’t always win The World Cup does not have a monopoly on unexpected results.  It happens all the time.  
Cup.

Thats what i mean,Every one has a chance,even if it is small.

Issue 2:Similarities and diffrentces.

Ok,lets just take a brake for a moment and lets look at the differences and similarities.

Similarities
.Its on every 4 years.
.They both have spin offs Eg:
World cup= Euro cup,afracian cup of nations,ect...
Olympics=winter and paralympics ,ect...
.Every one wants to win it and if they don't there heart broken.

Differences
.Olympics:
.They play for gold sivler and gold trophies-this is good because 3 people can 'win' a medal but it takes out the uniqualty of winning.(7/10)
.As Paranoid Android wrightly said,the olympics has 35+ events-Good if you don't like 1 sport but less qualtily/spacilty on the events.(7/10)
.No quailyfing rounds-Good Because evey ones in voled but bad a less quatily rounds(6/10)
.Started in acient greece 1000's of years ago-Great because it's a tradion started in one of the greated civazions on earth!But some might agrue that its old and needs to be updated. (10/10)
World cup:
.1 sport only-football!-Good because football is the worlds Favortate,with diffrent styles Eg:Brazilan stlye,European style,ect... but bad because if you don't like football,your stuffed!(9/10)
.1 cup-winner takes all(8/10)-less 'winners' but makes it rarer to get.
.No winter version(6/10)-Good because the brits are cr*p at winter sports!But on the other side of the coin makes it fell restriced to summer.
.No 2nd chance to next year-(7/10)Good because it makes it rarer to get the world cup.
.Foot ball songs!(10/10)-Some great tunes like 3 lions on the shirt,on the ball,vindaloo and that football frenzy song!As well as some othersgreat songs!
Results

Using the scores at the side of the point i have avaged them out(add them toghter and divided by the number of points) and the results are:
Olympics:Adverge score of- 17.33r
world cup:advarage score of- 23.5
When you think of the points I didn't think of for both sides then theres not a lot in it,but arcoring to tthe results,the world cup better!

[Paranoid Android]

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(7/10) (7/10) (6/10) (10/10) (8/10)……

Ok.  Thanks for that.  I’m not entirely sure what system you are using to rank the Olympics and World Cup.  You’ve brought up some interesting points, I’d like to see a little more detail on them, and how you came to these numbers.  Until then, I’ll just take this rank as your subjective opinion of the two events

Quote

Every one wants to win it and if they don't there heart broken.

This is not necessarily true.  It’s not always about winning and losing.  Of course, people want to win, it’s natural human instinct, but the Olympics transcend the pettiness of winners and losers.  Nowhere is this more evident than in the case of Olympic athlete Eric Moussambani.

Body post 3 – the Moussambani Factor

Eric Moussambani represented the tiny nation of Equatorial Guinea at the Sydney Olympics in 2000.  Taking on the world’s best in swimming the prestigious 100 metre freestyle event, Moussambani clocked just under 2 minutes – the respectable time of 1:52:72.  It was one of the slowest times in Olympic history (and longer than most 200m races).  

But that was expected.  Eric Moussambani (dubbed “Eric the Eel” by the media) represented, as I stated, the nation of Equatorial Guinea, a tiny country located on the west coast of Africa, and bordered by Cameroon and Gabon.  It has no rivers, oceans or streams, and  “before coming to the Olympics, Moussambani had never seen a 50 m pool. He took up swimming only 8 months before the Olympics and had practised in a 20 m pool” (Source).

To see video of the race, click this link – here.  My apologies for the audio, I was unable to find a video link in English.  The event is still the same however.

Making this feat even more courageous was the two scheduled racers with him both were disqualified for early dives.  Moussambani swam alone.   Far from being ridiculed, and far from feeling ashamed at clocking such a slow time, he became a hero of the 2000 Olympics.  The crowd cheered for him as if he’d won the final.  “Ah, that’s what the Olympics are all about” claimed the BBC commentator calling the “race” (Source).  

Compare this to the World Cup.  It is solely results driven.  The competition is fierce, the games tight.  This makes for great competition.  But sport shouldn’t be about results.  It’s about having fun.  About doing your best.  The old cliché “it’s not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game that’s important”.  The World Cup does not make this distinction, and as a result cheating to get the result is not unheard of - commonplace even (diving in the penalty box, for example).  That’s what happens when the focus of sport is on results.

The Olympics is a sporting event, and is ultimately about winning and losing.  But it is so much more than that.  The spirit of competition is not only between other competitors but also against oneself.  Eric embodied this spirit, and earned his place in Olympic folklore.

Congratulations Eric.  You did yourself and your nation proud

[Crazy_Lemons]

Wow you learn somthing every day!
Issue 3:Football-the worlds greatsest sport.

Foot ball is the world greastest sport.How can i prove it,well go and ask on the street.But if your like me,lazy,then just read below.

Evidance
Ok lets start with the 2006 world cup.Paranoid Android said that the world cup is only made up of 32 teams,which is true,but thats just the tip of the ice berge,In the 2006 world cup, 207 teams have competed to qualify for the World Cup Finals, and 78 nations have qualified at least once. Of these, only eleven have made it to the final match, and only seven have won*. A map of the contries can be seen at here*sorce wikimedi (here)

A passage from wikimedi tells alll...
Association football, soccer, or simply football, is a team sport played between two teams each consisting of 11 players and is widely considered to be the most popular sport in the world. It is a ball game played on a rectangular grass field (or occasionally on an artificial pitch) with a goal at each end. The object of the game is to score by manoeuvring the ball into the opposing goal. The predominant feature of the sport is that players other than the goalkeepers may not use their hands or arms to propel the ball in general play. The winner is the team that has scored more goals at the end of the match.

To back this up,each conanent has it own assosation:
Asia: Asian Football Confederation (AFC)
Africa: Confederation of African Football (CAF)
Central/North America & Caribbean: Confederation of North, Central American and Caribbean Association Football (CONCACAF; also known as The Football Confederation)
Europe: Union of European Football Associations (UEFA)
Oceania: Oceania Football Confederation (OFC)
South America: Confederación Sudamericana de Fútbol (South American Football Confederation; CONMEBOL)

[Crazy_Lemons]

I'm sorry,i know it's not my turn but because the world cup has just ended and some people still don't know how the world cup works, i need to post now while i remember.

Help:Game play

Ok,the world cup has just ended,but some people still don't know how the world cup works.,so just take a minute to see how it works with the 2006 fifa world cup results...

Group A

Gremany
Poland -- Winner=Gremany
Costa rica --Runner up=Equador
Equador

Group B--------------England vs Equador(1-0)
---------------------------------------Germany vs Sweden(2-0)
England
Paraguy--Winner=England
Sweden--Runner up=Sweden
Trinadad & Tobago

Group C

Argentina
Neverlands--Winner=Argentina-----------Neverlands vs Pourgal(0-1)
Cote d'lvoire--Runner up=Neverlands----Mexico vs argentina (2-1)
Serbia and montenegro

Group D

Mexico
Angola--Winner=Portugal
Iran--Runner up=Mexico
Portugal

Group E

Italy
Ghana--Winner=Italy
Czch republic--Runner up=Ghana----Italy vs Australia(1-0)
Usa--------------------------------------Brazil vs ghana(3-0)

Group F
                                              
Brazil
Japan--Winner=Brazil
Croatia--Runner up=Australia
Australia

Group G

Korea republic
France--Winner=Switzerland
Tongo--Runner up=France------France vs spain(3-1)
Switzerland-----------------------Switzerland vs Ukraine(0-0(0-3 on penaties)

Group H

Spain
Ukraine--Winner= Spain
Tunsia--Runner up=Ukraine
Saudi Arabia

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------l

Last 8(Quarter finals)

Germany vs Argentina (1-1(4-2 on penaties)
England vs Portugal (0-0(3-1 on penaties)
Brazil vs France(0-1)
Italy vs ukraine(3-0)

Last 4(semi finals)

Italy vs Germany(2-0)
France vs portugal(1-0)

3rd place play offs

Portugal     vs germany(1-3)

Last 2(finals)

Italy vs France(1-1(5-3 on penaties)

Winners of the 2006 fifa world cup are:Italy
2nd place people are:France
3rd place people are:Germany   Note:this is a quick guild the the 2006 fifa world cup,not a
reason why the FIFA World Cup is not just the biggest,but the best sporting contest on plant Earth .

[AztecInca]

Aero dynamic please cut and paste this post into a word document so you can use it in your next post. I cannot allow you to post your arguments before they are called for. It also give your opponent an advantage as they can see what you are going to post next. Once you have cut and pasted I shall remove the post.