[Paranoid Android]

Wikimedi, I had to good one!

Football is indeed the World Game, Aero_dynamic. I can’t specifically argue against your point in Issue 3, because it is truly the world sport. However, the World Cup is not the only Football competition in the world, just the largest. You can still see these sports at other major events, including the Olympics.

Body post 4 – the Olympics’ rich historical roots

The modern Olympics date to the beginning of the 1900’s and have run throughout the world with great success. This is only half the story. The Olympics go much further back than this. To find the origin of the Olympics, we must go all the way back to Ancient Greece, one of the great ancient civilizations in our collective history.

Ancient Greece - widely "considered by most historians to be the foundational culture of Western Civilization." - (Source) ancient Greece thrived for a thousand years, and still today influences our world. Education, politics, philosophy, science, art, more (paraphrased from same source as above). All these we can thank the Greeks for *thanks the Greeks*

And now, thousands of years later, we can tap into this tradition, this culture, this integral part of our life. And we can do this through the Olympics. Every athlete to compete in the Olympics brings to the sport the sense of tradition that only history can bring. Winners adding their name to an illustrious list of competitors that dates not only back to the 1900’s but thousands of years before the modern Olympics even began. To have ones name on a list of illustrious athletes dating back to this great civilization is........ indescribable. How can I even attempt to describe how an athlete would feel in this situation.

Compare this to the World Cup. It dates to 1930. By no means is it a meaningless competition, and winners rightly celebrate and put their names with some great sportsmen throughout history (Pele, Maradonna), but let’s put it in some perspective. As Aero_dynamic posted in his last reply:

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Of these (competing teams), only eleven have made it to the final match, and only seven have won

Seven countries through history have won the Cup. SEVEN! Think about this a little. This is the “World Cup”, and only seven teams have held it? How can any sport that has a winners circle so small take up the mantle of the greatest sporting event on our planet? The absurdity of it overwhelms me.

The history of these two events show us categorically that the World Cup can not compete with the Olympics. Once again, the Olympics is shown to be a greater event, without doubt.

[Pappzy]

Isue 4:Money,money,money

The world cup can be split into 2 main points:
1)football
2)money

Point 1)-football:this is an easy one,it's what the world cup mainly about.
Point 2)-money:This is a harder one,but there are a number of people who make profit from the world cup:

1)Host
2)winner
3)companies

1)-host:This is mainly for the smaller contries and poor contries like south africa(2010)
and south amercian contries(2014) like brazil and argentina.
2)-winners:The winners can be put into 2 catagories,rich and poor:
Rich:England,france,italy and germany
Poor:Brazil,argentina and uargauy.
3)compainies-some small compainies profit from selling flags and othre world cu[p objects as well as the big companies.

Short but sweet!

[Paranoid Android]

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Short but sweet!

And to the point also Though your point can also include the Olympics. The marketing value of the Olympics is not insignificant, and encompasses all 200+ nations, not only the 32 that qualify for the finals.

Body Post 5 – Olympic coverage

The sheer size of the Olympics guarantees the average television viewer the chance to watch 14 hours a day of continuous sporting action. One could realistically watch the excitement of the 100m sprint final, bask in the glory of that, then shortly after be cheering on the synchronised diving semi-final, and then again thereafter see the gymnastics uneven bars, followed by the Hockey, Soccer (sorry, Football), Equestrian and Tennis..... and so on, you get the idea – constant excitement. Consistently great moments every day!

That’s not to say that the Football World Cup doesn’t have it’s fair share of great moments. Italy’s two goals against Germany in the last two minutes of play during their semi-final match, for example. Or perhaps Germany’s penalty shoot-out performance against Argentina a match earlier. And of course, Zidane’s now infamous head butt ten minutes before time in the Final. Great moments, all of them. But this all happens within a limited time-frame. There are only sixty-four games at the World Cup, spread out over a whole month. This means there are...... *gets calculator out*

6 group games, multiplied by 8 groups: 48 games. 48 games multiplied by 90 minutes per game – 72 hours of game-play.

(I’ll calculate the length of the knockout games based on the maximum length of a game – i.e. 90 minutes of normal play, plus 30 minutes of extra-time)

8 games in the first knockout round – 8 x 120minutes: 16 hours of game-play.

4 quarterfinal matches – 4 x 120 minutes: 8 hours.

2 semi-finals – 2 x 120 minutes: 4 hours

And the biggie, the World Cup Final – 2 hours

Totalling all this up, the World Cup comprises an absolute maximum of 102 hours of actual Football. Ok, we’ll be kind and add six minutes to every match to account for injury time, but that’s still only adds another 6 ½ hours. And just to make things fair, I’ll add 15 minutes to every match for half-time break, another 16 hours.

Total maximum Football played – 124.5 hours

And since we’re talking television coverage, I suppose I’d better hand half an hour either side of each game to the commentators for their pre and post game wraps – 64 more hours of coverage, but no actual football played.

Total coverage, including television commentaries – 188.5 hours

When looked at like this, all at once, 188 hours may seem like a lot. That’s almost 8 full days of viewing pleasure. But remember that these 188 hours are spread out over a four-week period. That isn’t a lot when considering the length of the tournament. This isn’t so noticeable in the group stages when there are 3 games every day, but once the knockout rounds are reached, literally days pass without a ball being kicked.

So which event really is the greater???

[Pappzy]

Issue5-world class tv

The world cup 2006.many a memories of the wonderful event,like who can forget ziddans headbut in extra time in the world cup finals or joe coles admazing goal from 35 yard line for england (here) or italy 2 goals in the last 2 minutes in the semi finals!The list gose on and on!Do you get that in the olympics?No,because the wold cup is so big in range that its rare that someone picks on sonthing like 2 goals in 2 minutes ao some thing,they just look at the results like most of us.

And how many of you people would have honestly heard of trinadad and tabago if they weren't in the would cup?How many of you would have heard of paraguy if they weren't in the world cupThis is what makes good telly-knowing that a contry that you have never heard of can win the world cup.

Also the world cup dose have the 'Eric Moussambani factor'.Let me take you back to Brazil vs Australia.Brazil won 2-0 but Australia played the best team in the world a fought at it,so when you think about it,Australia was the better team of the day and they even though it was there 2nd world cup they made it to the last 16.Many undecided people choose to support australia(i know i did ) and in the end,isn't that what makes good telly?

In reply to Paranoid Android post about 188 hours of football,think whats you can do in 188 hours,you can:
.Go to any where in the world and back with a 3 day hoilday in the middle
.buy a car
.get married
.have a child
get put in prioson for a crime you didn't commit then break out

The list goes on and on so look back and see which sporting event which is the biggest and the best sporting event on earth-the fifa world cup or the olympics?

This post has been edited by Aero_dynamic: 31 July 2006 - 11:26 AM

[Paranoid Android]

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The list gose on and on!Do you get that in the olympics?No

I beg to differ. The Olympics throws in just such moments also. Every sport in the Olympics has their special moments, for good or ill. These World Cup highlights you mention are good, and we can remember them clearly now because the World Cup was only held recently. Give it a couple of years, how many of these highlights will you remember? How many World Cup highlights do you remember from 2002? I can recall only two.

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Also the world cup dose have the 'Eric Moussambani factor'.Let me take you back to Brazil vs Australia.

You’re equating an underdog team to Eric Moussambani. The situation is completely different. Eric Moussambani was totally inept in his sport. He’d never even learnt to swim until 8 months before he swam the Olympics. Australia is a sporting nation, with the majority of the Australian Soccer team playing in the top League’s overseas. To say it is similar to Moussambani is ridiculous in the extreme.

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In rerply to paranoid android message that 188 hours is not a lot-how can you think that 188 hours is not a lot!Most people would love to have 188 hours extra in the there live! I know i would

ooh, sneaky. Editing this in. I almost missed it 188 hours seems a lot, and it’s definitely a lot to take in at once, butt over the course of a month it’s not a lot at all, especially when most of the Football gets played at the beginning of the tournament in the group stages.

Conclusion

When compared to the Olympics, the Football World Cup just doesn’t match up. The Olympics has a universal appeal that cannot be matched by the World Cup. Not only are there more sports to capture a wider audience, there are 200 countries involved with the actual event, not only meaningless qualifying matches. From a historical, cultural, social position, however we look at it, the Olympics are better. But above all, it is the spirit of the Olympics that endear the event to us all. Because above the spirit of competition (that both the World Cup and the Olympics possess), there is a greater spirit – the spirit of cooperation, and that belongs solely to the Olympics.

With that said, I bid you all adieu.

Regards, PA

Addendum

I would normally finish my debate with the above paragraph, but I would like to personally address my opponent here (if any Debate Organizer has issue with this, please feel free to edit this last paragraph out).

Thank you for taking the time to debate this topic, Aero_dynamic. It’s not easy taking up a debate here, especially when it’s your first. I’m sure you’ll learn a lot from this experience (Note - this is not meant as an attack on you, Aero_dynamic, but rather some helpful advice from a fellow debator, to use in your future debates). - Above everything else, a debate is about persuasion. Persuading the reader or hearer that your side of the story is the correct one. Facts alone can only go so far. I could see the points you were trying to raise in your post, but they were way too brief. Feel free to elaborate on your points, and persuade us that you’re right. And as this is a debate, you don’t need to tread lightly when it comes to trying to attack my posts. Find any hole in my argument (I’m sure there is one or two somewhere, and possibly even a contradiction or two, lol) and exploit it. No one will mind Taking a look at this link here might also be helpful in understanding what a debate judge looks for when grading our results.

This post has been edited by Paranoid Android: 01 August 2006 - 12:28 PM

[Pappzy]

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ooh, sneaky. Editing this in. I almost missed it 188 hours seems a lot, and it’s definitely a lot to take in at once, butt over the course of a month it’s not a lot at all, especially when most of the Football gets played at the beginning of the tournament in the group stages.

Sorry about the confusion,yes after reading back carefully(thats the problem with me,i skim instead of reading it properly!)i realized what you where saying so i edited it.sorry again!

Quote

Thank you for taking the time to debate this topic, Aero_dynamic. It’s not easy taking up a debate here, especially when it’s your first. I’m sure you’l learn a lot from this experience (Note - this is not meant as an attack on you, Aero_dynamic, but rather some helpful advice from a fellow debater, to use in your future debates). - Above everything else, a debate is about persuasion. Persuading the reader or hearer that your side of the story is the correct one. Facts alone can only go so far. I could see the points you were trying to raise in your post, but they were way too brief. Feel free to elaborate on your points, and persuade us that you’re right. And as this is a debate, you don’t need to tread lightly when it comes to trying to attack my posts. Find any hole in my argument (I’m sure there is one or two somewhere, and possibly even a contradiction or two, lol) and exploit it. No one will mind Taking a look at this link here might also be helpful in understanding what a debate judge looks for when grading our results.

Thank you Paranoid Android,no i don't take any offence because its true.This is my first debate,not just here but anywhere for ages.yes its true but i can say i tried my hardest and,well i'm happy for that.You've been a exalent opponent and i wish you luck in future debates.

conclusion.
While this argument has been about which is better and to persuade people about which is the biggest and the best,doing that would be almost impossible.The world cup and the olympics or 2 different events.The olympics has a hole range of sports and 200+ contenders while the olympics only has one sport and only 32 countries out of the 200= can get through.Also the range for the biggest and best sporting events Is too small.What about wimbeledon?what about the commonwealth games?While some may agrue that on of the two is the best what about the other events?

So,on to the main point what we been of agueing over the last 4 weeks for;why is the world cup the biggest and the best sporting event in the world,well there are alot of points,but the main 3 are:
.185 hours of enjoyment-of that the adverge football fan will watch 20-100 hours of it.
.money -bring small companies money and brings the countries that host and win the world cup more money.
.Football-the worlds faivate sport.

thank you for reading and thankyou paranoid android for a good debate!

This post has been edited by Aero_dynamic: 01 August 2006 - 01:08 PM

[AztecInca]

Thanks to both our debaters you both did an incredible job. I shall now hand you over to the judges!

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

I'm not sure whether or not I should judge this.
Before reading this I had never heard of the "World Cup", and I very rarely (but sometimes) watch the Olympics.
I may not be impartial

This post has been edited by Mr. Fahrenheit: 08 August 2006 - 05:31 PM

[Kryso]

Debater 1: Paranoid Android

Relevancy: 9
Countering: 8
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 8
Total: 33

Debater 2: Aero_dynamic

Relevancy: 9
Countering: 6
Style: 7
Persuasiveness: 7
Total: 29

Good debate.

I don't really watch either, but found your debate intresting nonetheless...

[__Kratos__]

Debater 1: Paranoid Android

Relevancy: 10
Countering: 8
Style: 9
Persuasiveness: 8
Total: 35

Debater 2: Aero_dynamic

Relevancy: 10
Countering: 7
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 6
Total: 31

A great debate with some good research to show each other's sides. Though, I did think PA did take it a bit further. Still a good job by the both of you, hope to see you guys in the future.

[TooFarGone]

Debater 1: Paranoid Android

Relevancy: 10
Countering: 9
Style: 9
Persuasiveness: 8
Total: 35

Debater 2: Aero_dynamic

Relevancy: 9
Countering: 7
Style: 8
Persuasiveness: 5
Total: 29

Great debate by both competitors!