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Medical examiner: Drowning boy struggled


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#1    __Kratos__

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 11:34 PM

HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- Seven-year-old Noah Yates struggled so hard as his mother drowned him that his small fists remained stiff and raised over his head hours later, the medical examiner testified Wednesday.

Noah also had deep bruises consistent with someone holding him down, as did 6-month-old Mary and 5-year-old John, Dr. Luis Sanchez said at the third day of Andrea Yates' murder retrial.

Prosecutors have said they will rest their case after Sanchez testifies. During the trial's rebuttal phase, they plan to call Dr. Park Dietz, the psychiatrist whose testimony inadvertently caused Yates' conviction to be overturned.

Dietz, also a consultant to the "Law & Order" television series, told jurors in Yates' first trial that one episode depicting a woman who drowned her kids in a bathtub and was acquitted by reason of insanity aired before the Yates children died.

No such episode existed, attorneys learned after Yates was convicted but before jurors sentenced her to life in prison.

Yates again has pleaded innocent by reason of insanity.

The defense says she suffered from severe postpartum psychosis and did not know that drowning her children was wrong.

Yates is being tried only in the deaths of three of the five children, a common practice in cases of multiple slayings.

The judge is not allowing prosecutors to show evidence about the injuries suffered by the other two children, 2-year-old Luke and 3-year-old Paul.

If convicted, Yates will be sentenced to life in prison because prosecutors are not seeking the death penalty. After the first jury rejected death, prosecutors could not seek execution again because they did not find any new evidence.
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She should be shot.  disgust.gif

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#2    frogfish

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 11:42 PM

Better, she should be drowned just like what she did to her poor children.

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#3    Purplos

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 03:17 AM

You know, while I absolutley abhor what she did, I am torn on this one.  If she was indeed suffering from PPP (post partum psychosis), then her husband is equally culpable (or more so) for leaving her alone with the children.

I had PPP after my second kid was born.  I spent hours locked in the bedroom screaming until my voice gave out.  I was completely irrational.  My doctor said "It will pass."  Having experienced the temporary insanity of it, this one is such a tough call for me.

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#4    coldethyl

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 06:37 PM

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You know, while I absolutley abhor what she did, I am torn on this one.  


I'm with you on this one.  It's so completely obvious and documented that she was mentally ill.  I have a hard time with this one too.   hmm.gif


#5    _Nyx_

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 06:44 PM

I just cannot imagine being so depressed that you would kill all of your children... My 2 drive me insane at times...but dang...


#6    Purplos

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 08:31 PM

It's not depression Nyx, its psychosis - as in psychotic - as in hearing voices and not recognizing reality.  The woman was mentally ill and her husband knew and left her alone with the kids.

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#7    coldethyl

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 08:54 PM

Yeah AY was bad off.  She'd been in and out of mental institutions and advised not to have any more children yet they still kept having children!  Then she got involved with that religious maniac that her husband followed and for a while they all lived in a van....she was just really bad off.  Horrible situation.  She should have been in an institute and this never would have happened, IMO.


#8    __Kratos__

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 04:47 PM

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her husband is equally culpable (or more so) for leaving her alone with the children.


I don't think he is to blame. She has had it with past kids and she should have taken the proper steps before the child was born to ensure herself. She was probably telling him everything was alright and he wasn't in her head before hand or then, so he couldn't have known she was going to flip out to be a bad mother and kill their children.

Update: Yates was psychotic, former jail nurse says

HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- Andrea Yates stared at her cell wall the day after she drowned her five children in a bathtub and appeared to be talking to someone who wasn't there, a psychiatric nurse testified Friday.

John Bayliss, who worked in the mental health unit of the Harris County Jail, testified in Yates' second murder trial that the suburban Houston woman slowly turned to look at him only after he repeatedly called out her name. She then turned back to the wall and continued rapidly mumbling and picking at her hair, he said.

"(It) is something I had not observed in any other patient I had dealt with," Bayliss said.

Yates was convicted of murder in 2002, but the conviction was overturned last year because of erroneous testimony. She has again pleaded innocent by reason of insanity.

Dr. Melissa R. Ferguson testified Thursday that she evaluated Yates the day after the children -- 6-month-old Mary, 2-year-old Luke, 3-year-old Paul, 5-year-old John and 7-year-old Noah -- were drowned in their home in June 2001. Ferguson, then the medical director of psychiatric services at the Harris County Jail, said Yates at first showed no emotion but then started crying and yelling.

"She screamed, 'Couldn't I have killed just one to fulfill the prophecy? Couldn't I have offered Mary? Are they in heaven?"' Ferguson said.

Ferguson testified that Yates said her children were not righteous and had stumbled because she was evil, and they could never be saved because of how she was raising them. Yates then paraphrased Luke 17:2, saying, "It is better for someone to tie a millstone around their neck and cast them into a river than to stumble," Ferguson told jury.

She added that Yates did not believe she was mentally ill.

Prosecutors, who rested their case Wednesday, contend Yates knew her actions were wrong because she called 911 after the crime and later told a detective she killed her children because she was a bad mother and wanted to be punished. They also said she did it after her husband went to work and before her mother-in-law arrived.

Ferguson testified that Yates showed signs of paranoia when she reported hearing voices and said the media had put cameras in her cell, but prosecutors showed the jury pictures of Yates' cell that had a surveillance camera and intercom.

When she asked Yates if she was suicidal, Ferguson testified, Yates said, "I cannot destroy Satan; only the state can." Ferguson said Yates believed President Bush was still the Texas governor, and that Yates said that he would destroy Satan.

On Thursday, a former case worker testified that the day after the drownings, Yates asked for a razor to shave her head. She said "666" -- the "Number of the Beast" in the Book of Revelation -- was on her scalp, Corey Washington testified.

Washington said he stood to look at the back of Yates' head and noticed three marks that he was told were scabs where she had picked at her scalp.

"I kind of buckled a little bit," Washington said.

Prosecutors still plan to call Dr. Park Dietz, the psychiatrist whose testimony inadvertently caused Yates' conviction to be overturned. They said that he would testify during the trial's rebuttal phase, after the defense presents its case.

Dietz, also a consultant to the "Law & Order" television series, told jurors in Yates' first trial that one episode depicting a woman who drowned her kids in a bathtub -- and was acquitted by reason of insanity -- aired before the Yates children died. No such episode existed.

Yates, who turns 42 on Sunday, will be sentenced to life in prison if convicted. She is being tried in only three of the children's deaths, a common practice in cases involving multiple slayings.
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Seemly any idiot can have kids... hmm.gif I'm still hoping for her to be put to death.

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#9    frogfish

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 05:05 PM

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I'm still hoping for her to be put to death.

She deserves it yes.gif

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#10    The Skeptic Eric Raven

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 05:09 PM

The husband should be jailed too. He kept pushing her to have more kids even though he knew she was mentally ill.
I don't care if she was ill during the murder. Some crimes should mandate execution no matter what.

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#11    __Kratos__

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Posted 08 July 2006 - 09:11 PM

Update: Yates was warned not to have 5th child

quote:
HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- A psychiatrist testified Friday that she warned Andrea Yates not to have any more children after she tried to commit suicide twice within months of having her fourth child in 1999.

"I could pretty much predict that Mrs. Yates would have another episode of psychosis," Dr. Eileen Starbranch told jurors in Yates' second murder retrial.

Starbranch said Yates suffered from postpartum psychosis, which she said causes a mother to have delusions and lose touch with reality, making it much more severe than postpartum depression.
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She knew at the time she would be a danger of having another child, yet she did and all those innocent children died at the hands of her.  no.gif

Edited by __Kratos__, 08 July 2006 - 09:12 PM.

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#12    Purplos

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Posted 08 July 2006 - 11:06 PM

Surely her husband had something to do with her having another child?

I do not remember the entire case, nor did I follow it exceptionally closely, but I believe I remember something about her husband making a statement that he understood that she was unbalanced (after having the last child) but he had to go to work and she looked fine to him.  Surely the doctor shared with him that his wife was having mental illness issues.  He should, I believe, at least have gotten in some sort of trouble for child endangerment - leaving the children with someone he knew was unsuitable - even though it was his own wife and their mother.

Edited by Purplos, 08 July 2006 - 11:08 PM.

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#13    Conspiracy

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Posted 08 July 2006 - 11:38 PM

u shouldnt be able to plead for insanity, its a sad accuse for murder.

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#14    __Kratos__

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 02:56 AM

So the husband was just suppose to drop everything in his life, including work?

I don't know if the shrink even had permission to give out details of their client to her husband. Privacy laws are enforced.

DA: Yates' Husband Not Criminally Responsible

"Russell Yates is a victim," Mallett said. "He is a victim of a system that didn't care for his wife when he was trying to get care for her. And he will carry this memory with him for the rest of his life."

Yates' Husband Offended By Prosecution

Yates was asked if he saw the signs and possibly could have prevented the murders.

"No. People have said, 'Why did you leave her at home that day?' A lot of people have talked about responsibility and what is the responsibility of a loved one when they have a sick family member? What's the responsibility of the family member who is sick? What is the responsibility of the doctor and the hospital and the insurance company?" Russell Yates said.

"Andrea's responsibility in this was just to take her medication, try to dress herself, take a shower when she could. She didn't really have much responsibility -- eat, drink. We relieved her of all other responsibility -- Mom and I did at home. Our responsibility in this was to seek medical treatment for Andrea, which we did and offload her responsibility at home so Mom and I cared for the kids that entire period," Russell Yates said.

Russell Yates said that no one realized that Andrea Yates was dangerous.

"She didn't step up and say anything that was so outrageous that made us concerned. She just was quiet and stared ahead. We didn't know she was psychotic. We just thought she was depressed. But she was staring ahead and we would see her the same way we'd always seen her," Russell Yates said.

"We knew how much she loved the children and if she didn't say anything, we assumed she was thinking the same thing she always thought. So, no, we didn't see her as a danger," Russell Yates said.

The medical community is partly to blame, according to Russell Yates.

"The real question to me is how could she have been so ill and the medical community not diagnose her, not treat her and I'll say, not protect our family from her," he said. "My responsibility was to protect our family from people outside our house. You never think you have to protect somebody from inside your house. It's really the medical community's responsibility to identify psychosis. I'm not a medical professional. I don't even know what psychosis is. I know now, but didn't then."

Yates believes that there was nothing he could have done to prevent the tragedy.

"A family can't protect itself from a psychotic person. (Andrea) had delusional thinking. She was psychotic. She thought it was imperative that she kill the children. And if it hadn't been about drowning when we were gone, it would have been by smothering at night or poisoning them at breakfast. It would have been some other way," Russell Yates said.



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#15    purrfect

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 11:26 AM

Quote


HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- Seven-year-old Noah Yates struggled so hard as his mother drowned him that his small fists remained stiff and raised over his head hours later, the medical examiner testified Wednesday.

Noah also had deep bruises consistent with someone holding him down, as did 6-month-old Mary and 5-year-old John, Dr. Luis Sanchez said at the third day of Andrea Yates' murder retrial.

Prosecutors have said they will rest their case after Sanchez testifies. During the trial's rebuttal phase, they plan to call Dr. Park Dietz, the psychiatrist whose testimony inadvertently caused Yates' conviction to be overturned.

Dietz, also a consultant to the "Law & Order" television series, told jurors in Yates' first trial that one episode depicting a woman who drowned her kids in a bathtub and was acquitted by reason of insanity aired before the Yates children died.

No such episode existed, attorneys learned after Yates was convicted but before jurors sentenced her to life in prison.

Yates again has pleaded innocent by reason of insanity.

The defense says she suffered from severe postpartum psychosis and did not know that drowning her children was wrong.

Yates is being tried only in the deaths of three of the five children, a common practice in cases of multiple slayings.

The judge is not allowing prosecutors to show evidence about the injuries suffered by the other two children, 2-year-old Luke and 3-year-old Paul.

If convicted, Yates will be sentenced to life in prison because prosecutors are not seeking the death penalty. After the first jury rejected death, prosecutors could not seek execution again because they did not find any new evidence.
Source
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She should be shot.  disgust.gif

suerly after finding her guilty of killing her first child, they should have locked her up in a mental home or taken her other kids, that she would soon have, off her.

What If?




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