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Global Warming


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#16    joc

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 04:03 AM

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Every year it gets warmer and warmer.


Really?  Where?  Everywhere?  Somewhere?  Overall?  If it isn't getting warmer everywhere, how do you know it is getting warmer anywhere?  

I submit to you all that there is no collective data even remotely suggesting that the Earth is in a cycle of warming.  If there is:

SHOW IT


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#17    antares

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 04:20 AM

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I submit to you all that there is no collective data even remotely suggesting that the Earth is in a cycle of warming. If there is: SHOW IT


Joc, if I refer you to the data would you read it? How about the last issue of the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society? (BAMS, VOLUME 87 NUMBER 6, June 2006)
The article I am talking about is "State of the Climate in 2005: Executive Summary. K. A. Shein, pages 801–805".
Read it, and we can have a discussion afterwards. I have many more articles for you if you really want to know what is the current state of the global warming issue.


#18    leadbelly

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 04:32 AM

This is just a guess, but if there were 20% of today's population, and they utilized 25% of their arable land for bio-fuel production, and all of their hydro-electric capabilities, and nuclear capacities, gas burning electric power plants, and invented some means to inexpensively refine and clean coal (if that is possible), increase solar, wind, and wave power, and use more energy-efficient architecture designs, then that may at least create a more sustainable and tolerable energy/climate scenario.

On top of that, certain types of agriculture adjustments play some role, like how China uses a drier method to grow rice-and-reduce-rice-field-methane.

Jet planes and automobiles running on alcohol (in a world of a smaller, sustainable scale),
cities using gas, nuclear, cleaner coal, hydroelectric power, biomass fuels, might work in an ideal world.

The question remains, what happens in an ideal world, one in which we are forced to mind the climate and mind our energy potential? The atmosphere would see a quick change, the ocean surface would cool down in a few decades, and the ocean depths add additional cooling over a millenia. This might stabilize things, in an ideal situation.

But, in the mean time, certain areas that once had a moderate climate, may have swung  to one extreme or the other. And, the actual unwinding process of removing a lot of particulate pollution from the atmosphere may not be a cakewalk, if we end up switching from a "closed oven" to an "open furnace". That is, our smog may trap infrared, but it may also screen out visible or some UV energies. Removing soot from the sky may
produce a temporary heat flux, too.


That's all my own opinion, and a simple answer to a subtle, but complicated question.


#19    Clocker

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 07:14 AM

Global warming is reality, and there is substantial evidence. There are numerous articles about it in various scientific journals as well as in magazines such as National Geographic. Yes, this planet would probably warm at some point anyway (as the climate has been somewhat turbulent throughout history) but I doubt it's healthy to accelerate the effect. Oh, and not only China should reduce its emissions but also countries like the United States, which still is the biggest contributor to polluting our atmosphere. In fact, China has been somewhat active in pursuing a more sustainable society which has been demonstrated e.g. in urban design, agriculture and energy production. Though they are only taking their first steps towards a more sustainable society, they are at least making an effort. Naturally they are looking to profit financially from it, but that's the only way to make ecological sustainability attractive for governments and private companies.

All in all I don't know if global warming can be reduced enough in time but whatever happens I do think life will go on. Call me optimistic if you will original.gif  But, I also think it is still not too late to take up the sustainability agenda and make it a worldwide reality wink2.gif

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#20    Roj47

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 08:34 AM

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The winters are warmer, we are getting less snow and seeing a lot more rain. Lots of rain the past few winters, times when we would normally have 4 feet of snow on the ground, and below zerop temps, we have been seeing NO snow, and temps in teens, and higher...we also have been getting snow later in the season.


I know exactly what you mean. I live in northern England, and as a kid (20 years ago) I remember snow on the ground often from December - late January and bitterly cold nights.

These Winters it is warmer and wetter with snow (if it arrives) arriving in March.

My partners daughter saw her first icicle (sp?) this year and she is 12!

I used to make them by dropping water on branches  blush.gif

Mind you........If the gulf stream goes..... England will get colder again  ohmy.gif

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#21    Roj47

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 08:40 AM

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Really?  Where?  Everywhere?  Somewhere?  Overall?  If it isn't getting warmer everywhere, how do you know it is getting warmer anywhere?  

I submit to you all that there is no collective data even remotely suggesting that the Earth is in a cycle of warming.  If there is:

SHOW IT



Although I am concerned worldwide...... I can only look on local events -

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/cru/kd01/lightgreen/ccsnow_05.htm

Bit of a heavy read, but.....

Then another one local to myself -

http://www.metoffice.com/research/hadleyce...kcip/index.html

Edited by Roj47, 25 July 2006 - 08:41 AM.

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#22    joc

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 12:36 PM

I am not going to join a site just to look at information.  Snowfall averages don't mean anything.  

When we have our weather reports here they always say something like: Todays high temperature was 98 degrees...Todays low temperature was 88.  The record high for today was set in 1987 at 108 and the record low was in 1933 at 45.


Just because it doesn't snow as much in the UK doesn't mean that the Earth is getting warmer.

But OK....I won't even argue the point with you guys that it isn't.  Let's just say it is and be done with it!  

So What?!

The Earth has gone through dramatic changes long before man ever 'industrialized'.  It is not the belief that the Earth is Warming up that alarms me...it is the belief that man is causing it to warm up that I find disturbing.  The question then is what can we do about it?  The answer is nothing.  So why all the hullabulloo about it?  One reason:  because there are those who say we can do something about it...we can reduce the pollutants by things like the Kioto Treaty which  basically left out the worst polluters (China) and blamed the least polluters (America).

Global Warming is a Leftist Communist tool to extract money and land from the USA thereby creating a new power base for themselves....

...and guess what else the Communists...and I mean the old Soviet Empire Communists whom you all have forgotten ever even existed...are up to:

World Wide Islamic Fascism............ ohmy.gif

Edited by joc, 25 July 2006 - 12:37 PM.

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#23    Roj47

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 01:28 PM

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I am not going to join a site just to look at information.  Snowfall averages don't mean anything.  

Just because it doesn't snow as much in the UK doesn't mean that the Earth is getting warmer.

The Earth has gone through dramatic changes long before man ever 'industrialized'.  It is not the belief that the Earth is Warming up that alarms me...it is the belief that man is causing it to warm up that I find disturbing.  The question then is what can we do about it?  The answer is nothing.


Ummm..... I didnt say that Global warming was a 100% human created event.

I was merely pointing out (as I said) locally there is less snow.

For all I know there may be more snow in the Rockies to counter balance.

Yes the Earth fluctuates, but given that we are emitting more CO2 today than we have done previously I suggest that we are contributing to the effect more than nature would initially intend.

Personally (not directed to anyone in particular) I miss the snowball fights I had as a kid, and am sad that I am unable to build snowmen with my children due to no snow for more than 4 days in the last 5 years (in my part the world).

I also pointed that temperatures are expected to drop around the UK if freshwater dilutes the Gulf Stream, so not pointing to the Globe warming either....

Not on the defensive (not intended) just giving my thoughts on what I see and a few articles that give the back-up techny stuff I cant original.gif

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#24    antares

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 03:20 AM

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Global Warming is a Leftist Communist tool to extract money and land from the USA thereby creating a new power base for themselves....

...and guess what else the Communists...and I mean the old Soviet Empire Communists whom you all have forgotten ever even existed...are up to:


Joc, are you serious? Before making these ridiculous claims why don't you educate yourself a little bit. Where did you read that America is the least polluter?




#25    dragonfly1047

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 03:28 AM

I 'm not that bright but  hmm.gif I don't think USA is less. But I may be wrong....Americans are filthy....I am a American. grin2.gif

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#26    Clocker

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 06:59 AM

Uhh...some people already said but Joc, the United States is the number one polluter in the world, according to all sources I've read. Most of which are American. And I have nothing against the United States; in fact I'm going to be living there for the next 6 months.

As for the question whether something can be done to stop or even slow down global warming, well we have the technology to reduce emissions. Though I don't think it can be stopped at this point, its effect can be reduced thus likely making life on Earth more comfortable for future generations, as well as ourselves.

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#27    Oppono Astos

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 09:04 PM

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Evolution, survival of the fittest. Things will work out.


Destruction of the global ecosphere by humanity in not evolution  angry.gif

The terminolgy used on this and other similar threads only highlights the problem in addressing the climate change issue.  Talk about 'global warming' and joe public thinks we'll all be wearing T-shirts and shorts all year, and doesn't see a problem in that.  The real issue is climate change, of which localized warming effects are just one small part.

Who is the skeptic: the realist who won't accept belief, or the believer who won't accept reality?

#28    leadbelly

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 06:47 AM

I know seasons and cycles come and go, but it's hot.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-0...s-drought_x.htm

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#29    leadbelly

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 06:51 AM

Drought Index, 2005

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#30    leadbelly

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 06:52 AM

Drought Index, 2006

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