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Great Pyramid's construction explained with common knowledge. Rate Topic: ***** 1 Votes

#31 User is offline   aquatus1 


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Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:06 PM

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Only a finite number can occupy a workable area and function efficiently. ALL the stones could not be placed en masse even if some on the lower quadrants were.


You are posting extremes. No one is saying that ALL the stones were placed en masse. I am simply saying that the equation presented is based on a single stone being placed at a time. The Pyramid is an enormous construct, and many teams could quite easily be working at the same time.

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So how long does it take 6 guys to hack one stone of of the quarry strata and finish it to a dressed appearance? And yes the same law applies. Only so many teams can work in proximity to one another and function logistically.


But this assumes that all the stones were finished to a dressed appearance. They were not. Only the stones who faced an open area were dressed. The vast majority of the stones within the pyramid are rough-hewed, and the cracks in-between are filled with rubble. This takes dramatically less time.

#32 User is offline   fantazum 


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Posted 25 August 2006 - 12:21 AM

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Chris Dunn asked the manager of an Indiana limestone quarry what it would take to fill the order for the blocks used in the construction of the Pyramid of Khufu in the allotted 23 years.

He estimated that if all 33 quarries currently operating in Indiana tripled their output, the last block could be delivered at the end of 23 years.

I think there is a profound and widespread failure to appreciate the magnitude of the pyramid builders' accomplishment. "Ho-hum, they moved a lot of big rocks" seems to be the attitude. But if you get up out of a chair and try to plan something like this in a practical way, you see just what a freakishly colossal task it is.


yes the accepted time period for the construction of the piramids is nonsense and it is proven nonsense.....however,if we accept that the piramids took far longer to build than we originally were led to believe then it could provide an answer to why there is a lack of inscriptions and credits within the monuments. If the piramids were built thru the lives of successive kings then it may have been agreed that none would take the credit for their construction. The ancient egyptians were an odd people with very liberal attitudes and it is not beyond their reasoning to consider this.

One other thing - we are asked to believe that the great piramids were the result of generations of practical building experience. This is not true. If you consider Djoser's piramid in its original form you will see a construction every bit as advanced as the great piramids the only difference of course being in that Djoser's piramid was built from earthen bricks rather than stone.
Which brings us back to that very vexing question....

#33 User is offline   67thbook 


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Posted 25 August 2006 - 02:42 AM

It seems I haven't figured out the quote function yet I use bold and italics therefore.

Twitch98 -10,000 well treated, non-slave workers labored for 23 years to put 2,300,000 stones together to construct the Great Pyramid. Supposedly every 2.5 minutes a stone was moved to its final position. That's how it would have to work out if they labored 12 hours a day, 100,000 stones per year; 273 per day is about 23 per hour.

As another has suggested to you, yours surmises that only one stone at a time was moved by those 10,000 workers. I am not Marchimedes, but given his calculations, I would say that he likely has done his math and understands that the base itself occupied over 570,000 square foot of space, from which the Egyptians had four sides from which to haul their stones up onto this base. Given that they would not likely be utilizing the entire surface, but rather the perimeter, I estimate they would at a maximum utilize say 35% of the total base area for hauling this brick? Marchimedes I am sure will check my math.

Now What you have cited is the usual diatribe which tends to lean to man’s impossibility of performance such that aliens built the pyramids in that with 10,000 people (a number without substance but even so) was required to haul a block at an average of 5,000lbs up a ramp. I would call these men wimps! One man provides a half a pound of hauling power in that scenario.

Utilizing basic math, which even the Egyptians knew as is evidenced from their annals. If we presume that it took 10,000 Egyptians 23 years to move 2,300,000 blocks into place then we conclude that one block at a time was moved into place by all 10,000 or at least 4 or 5 while the others stood idle, every 2.628 minutes of the 12 hour day. Would this seem either likely or reasonable to any architect and construction project manager?

NO! let us therefore reject this delusional and absolutely idiotic conceptualization of man’s incompetence.

Fantazun - One other thing - we are asked to believe that the great piramids were the result of generations of practical building experience. This is not true. If you consider Djoser's piramid in its original form you will see a construction every bit as advanced as the great piramids the only difference of course being in that Djoser's piramid was built from earthen bricks rather than stone.
Which brings us back to that very vexing question...


On the contrary, there is no vexing question and what you will find are three pyramids attributed to Djoser, all of which attesting to the architectural prowess of the Egyptians due to trial and error and none of which were stable where specifically, even the bent pyramid built decades later, is a pyramid which by design was collapsing as a result of gross architectural miscalculation. What this signifies is man’s innate ability to reason by trial and error.


Who is this Byrd? Is it a bird in a cage or something/one which ventures outside?


**edited to clarify the progressive building techniques up to the construction of the bent pyramid **

This post has been edited by 67thbook: 25 August 2006 - 01:27 PM


#34 User is offline   Marchimedes 


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Posted 25 August 2006 - 12:28 PM

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Twitch98 -10,000 well treated, non-slave workers labored for 23 years to put 2,300,000 stones together to construct the Great Pyramid. Supposedly every 2.5 minutes a stone was moved to its final position. That's how it would have to work out if they labored 12 hours a day, 100,000 stones per year; 273 per day is about 23 per hour.


23? Thank you. I won't check because I'm no prig.

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As another has suggested to you, yours surmises that only one stone at a time was moved by those 10,000 workers.


Do the textless dawings make sense? I've done this in text only also and wan't to see what I need to do for dawings only.


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I am not Marchimedes


One of us only comes around every 4500 years, don't sweat it.

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, but given his calculations, I would say that he likely has done his math

Nope. All by gut. But for some trig to guess what level the Kings chamber is so to add in a posible mehod using the supposed recent ramp foundations.

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and understands that the base itself occupied over 570,000sounds about right. square foot of space, from which the Egyptians had four sides from which to haul their stones up onto this base


See post # 23.



Why build extra roads and longer routes? I say more speed was gotten by adding ajacent lanes.
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Given that they would not likely be utilizing the entire surface, but rather the perimeter,



[attachmentid=27854]

[attachmentid=27855]


Straigh lines always. Speed. Start taking detours and time adds on. Gotta 2 minute per block schedule to keep.

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I estimate they would at a maximum utilize say 35% of the total base area for hauling this brick?


Please to explain.

Post #23.
QUOTE
Marchimedes I am sure will check my math.


I trust you. Some other naysayer will I'm sure, then you say "my bad" and change something so it works.
QUOTE
Now What you have cited is the usual diatribe which tends to lean to man’s impossibility of performance such that aliens built the pyramids in that with 10,000 people (a number without substance but even so) was required to haul a block at an average of 5,000lbs up a ramp. I would call these men wimps! One man provides a half a pound of hauling power in that scenario.


No ramps, ever.
QUOTE
Utilizing basic math, which even the Egyptians knew as is evidenced from their annals. If we presume that it took 10,000 Egyptians 23 years to move 2,300,000 blocks into place then we conclude that one block at a time was moved into place by all 10,000 or at least 4 or 5 while the others stood idle, every 2.628 minutes of the 12 hour day. Would this seem either likely or reasonable to any architect and construction project manager?


This guy is thinking blue collar. Swee.
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NO! let us therefore reject this delusional and absolutely idiotic conceptualization of man’s incompetence.


I say it's not cost effective.
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[b]Fantazun - One other thing - we are asked to believe that the great piramids were the result of generations of practical building experience. This is not true. If you consider Djoser's piramid in its original form you will see a construction every bit as advanced as the great piramids the only difference of course being in that Djoser's piramid was built from earthen bricks rather than stone.
Which brings us back to that very vexing question...


Thought i started with tombs tha grew up over time, progression, skills learnt and passed on, trial and errror bla bla bla. 150 years is last I read.

QUOTE
Who is this Byrd? Is it a bird in a cage or something/one which ventures outside?


The resident genius at another forum that got his world rocked and resorted to lying and putting words in my mouh. Me? Drag a block?

Ask the questions on what's unclear from drawings and I'll try to add drawings only to clear up.

For a coloring book.

I will say that all the blocks, casing stones and all, were set one level at a time. Ain't heard hat one before have you?

Anyone read Lehner's and Smith's new book? I bet he stole my idea I told him about over a year ago. It's time/date stamped. Any who do will eventually recant.

Such is the power of The Warden's smack.

Notice I'm doing this fo free?

When I'm done I will tear apart EVERY other theory.

Starting wih stupid ramps.




400 views since yesterdays drawings post.

One site I'm banned from did 7000 views in 24 hours. Not one credible refutation. Except for there's no tree's in Africa and there's some drawing somewhere.

[attachmentid=27856]

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#35 User is offline   Marchimedes 


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Posted 25 August 2006 - 12:33 PM

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yes the accepted time period for the construction of the piramids is nonsense and it is proven nonsense



If you ever catch me using the word "proven" or "was done" or "is the way"as applied to this that we yet have no evidence to prove anything, shoot me.

If I can show a method that works in 23 yeas will you have been "proved" wrong?

Careful, I haven't got started yet.


#36 User is offline   67thbook 


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Posted 25 August 2006 - 02:02 PM

Marchimedes, the majority of the drawings speak for themselves.

Regarding the perimeter and the 35%. One of your drawings appears to suggest that the blocks were hauled up one side then moved over to the other, keeping in mind that the base occupiees 13 acres it stands to reason that not all of this would have been used as a work area for hauling the blocks up and onto it. Only the perimeter is necessary for this task, the workers would have more than sufficient room to haul the blocks up from all sides without getting in each others way. I think of it in terms of an assembly line where blocks are being continuously hauled up by the perimiter workers, then moved into position by a second line of workers.

#37 User is offline   Twitch98 


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Posted 25 August 2006 - 04:00 PM

Fantazm- yes exactly my point. It took more than 23 years! No aliens, magic or whatnot just way more time by humans. Simple. Or there was a mechanical technique which was so efficient that it enabled not only stability but a rapid rate of construction. Zahi Hahwas has uncovered quarters and facilities that would support 10,000, not 100,000 or more. If ever there were more on a temporary basis there is no archeological record to substantiate it. And temporary is all it could have been with the seasonal cycles of food production required to keep the economy humming. Basically a huge influx of untrained temps would be extremely difficult to manage.

The extraction of materials from quarries is time consuming. Most building pieces still had to be finished to a fraction of an inch interfacing similar pieces. Not as close in tolerance as facing stones but very smooth in relative terms. If they weren't, and spaces bewteen were filled by rubble, you'd have a unstable mountain of crap. Nowhere in I.E.S. Edwards 1947 book The Pyramids of Egypt does he mention construction like this. The rough hewn blocks seen on the outer ranks have been weathered for more than a few years. Rest assurred that the key blocks supporting the bulk of the construction were very tightly fitted, not all dressed but certainly smoothed out.

As Boorite said people today simply shrug off the immensity of the scale of the project imagining a bunch of guys moved a bunch of blocks. The modern quarryman's quote is most pertinent!! If producing the building materials with modern techniques would take up the time assigned for the entire project it leaves no time for construction.

We require planning for our buildings today. How long did it take to lay out the plans for the pyramid alone? How long did it take, how many meeting, to project the logistics needed to efficiently facilitate a smooth work flow? The Egyptians were miraculously able to tackle a project that was many times larger and more complex than anything previously attempted. Pyramids before hand gave experience, yes, but simply scaling up does not work in engineering! Yet they were able to put together a structure on an unheard of scale that remained the largest on the planet for millenia.

Go to any worksite of a huge construction and you immediately see the key is logistics. Materials have to arrive on site in a timely manner. Each morning a boss has to direct his crew as to what they are to accomplish in the day's time. They have to compliment and coincide with adjacent crews. Everyone must be on the same page, as it were, and a constant reassessment of progress relative to the crew, relative to the whole work force, relative to the outlined project goals for the specific time must be met. This requires constant re-evaluation by bosses throughout the day so schedules are kept. The organizational control was immense yet had to be precise. Get ready and work plan reinforcement time was needed each day before one chisel was lifed or one rope tugged.

If some of the construction was easier in the lower quadrants allowing many teams to work on unconnected segments we must realize that the [i]average[i] time of 2.5 minute per block means that several could theoretically be placed in final position simultaniously allowing us to "get ahead of the curve." We don't appreciate the picture of a team of 20-30 men pulling a stone from the quarry on whatever conveyance we can imagine- roller, sled or? Once they get to the vicinity of the final position the stone needs to be carefully and properly placed adjacent to its neighbor. We are saying that the actual movements required to muscle each into place happened in the time it took to write the last few sentences. How long would it take to just remove a rope harness if that was used? If muscling a stone into final position was required that alone would take a few minutes. If another method of leverage was used being precise and carefully calculating before executing the final move would have taken time as well.

Then about 1/3rd of the way up calculate how gravity increases the weight of the mass being conveyed to higher elevations. How much does the weigh increase in realitve terms per degree of incline in ratio to frictional resistance?

Then our valiant crew had to collect themselves and maneuver their conveyance equipment out of the way of the crews on their heels so they can repeat the same work all day every day. Do any of these chaps get a breather to collect themselves after a colossal effort or do they mindlessly labor till they drop?

How do you divide your 10,000 workers? How many are quarrymen, masons, block pullers, crew bosses and others. Recent estimates that 1,500 stone cutters produced 100 tons of finished stones per day. This 200,000 pounds of stones from, say, 250 six-man teams. They ranged from 2.5 to 15 tons in weight. At 2.5 tons per stone (2.5 was the minimum size) that’s just 80 per day, far short of our 273 minimum that need to be placed per diem if a schedule of 23 years is to be kept.




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#38 User is offline   Marchimedes 


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Posted 25 August 2006 - 05:47 PM

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Fantazm- yes exactly my point. It took more than 23 years!


I can say stuff too.

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Simple.

Well?

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Or there was a mechanical technique which was so efficient that it enabled not only stability but a rapid rate of construction.


You haven't been paying attention, have you?

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Zahi Hahwas has uncovered quarters and facilities that would support 10,000, not 100,000 or more.



To quarter the workers in the non faming season when he majority of the work was done.

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If ever there were more on a temporary basis there is no archeological record to substantiate it. And temporary is all it could have been with the seasonal cycles of food production required to keep the economy humming. Basically a huge influx of untrained temps would be extremely difficult to manage.


Good.
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The extraction of materials from quarries is time consuming.


I say the slowest part of the process. Worked on fom the momentt the papers were signed 24/7/365.
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Most building pieces still had to be finished to a fraction of an inch interfacing similar pieces.



Most? Fraction?
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As Boorite said people today simply shrug off the immensity of the scale of the project imagining a bunch of guys moved a bunch of blocks. The modern quarryman's quote is most pertinent!!


You're he first I've heard besides me to emphasize that. Your own idea or garnered from who please?

QUOTE
If producing the building materials with modern techniques would take up the time assigned for the entire project it leaves no time for construction.

We require planning for our buildings today. How long did it take to lay out the plans for the pyramid alone? How long did it take, how many meeting, to project the logistics needed to efficiently facilitate a smooth work flow? The Egyptians were miraculously able to tackle a project that was many times larger and more complex than anything previously attempted. Pyramids before hand gave experience, yes, but simply scaling up does not work in engineering! Yet they were able to put together a structure on an unheard of scale that remained the largest on the planet for millenia.


Just a job site. Don't be getting all excited.

And the rest is nicely put. But I'm gonna tell you exacly how it could have been done just as you describe. In 23 years. Nice take.

But you still have to be able to...

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#39 User is offline   Harte 


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Posted 26 August 2006 - 12:51 AM

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Marchimedes and Harte.

This is an interesting thread...however.

Please keep your problems, issues and arguments from another forum away from this board.

If you have something constuctive to say on the topic in question fine. If not better to say nothing at all.

No insults, flaming or any other type of abuse are tolerated on UM. The rules of this forum are here: http://www.unexplain...s.com/rules.php

Thanks.



Huh?

Please Clarify, if you can.

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#40 User is offline   Marchimedes 


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Posted 26 August 2006 - 03:38 AM

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Huh?

Please Clarify, if you can.

Harte



Marc,
I have a suggestion.

were at best egotistical broadsides,

which included copious amounts of whining at not being instantly recognized as genius.

- get over youself.

Don't be so over the top.


Harte

See now?

You started it.

I'm telling skeptic.

Gone hurt my feelings. It took a ice cream sunday and my favorite stuffed teddy for my Mom to coax me out of my weeping closet.

Hey Harte, what would you say if I could post valid holes and doubts in every single other pyramid theory?

What so far do you think is the biggest flaw or weakness in my theory? Besides recording porn over the setting of the Kings chamber blocks video.

Do you know the direction the foundations of the possible new ramp led to? If towards the Nile I can give a valid reason. If other direction then I say it's just a wall or something.

Is it known how old Khufu got to be?

Ever seen the solar telescope theory? Very solid. But I didn't do the math.

I've been well behaved, haven't I?

There is no clearance I know of over Top Secret. All need to know at that point.

And when they gonna let me back in that other place? I've got the WTC collapse down solid and am dying to chew on the bomb people.

Tell me Bird didn't lie.

That's called pushing your luck.

Quote

people today simply shrug off the immensity of the scale of the project imagining a bunch of guys moved a bunch of blocks.


That's classic. That's exactly what it was.

Next forum I find my first words will be, "This IS how the pyramids were built." Then be all polite and kind with the same theory. How do you think that will turn out?

I've a couple new water based levels that are far more acurate than that silly triangle and string. Thats for rough level for guys with one leg shorter than the other. With the pyramid corners being only 1" out of level (right?) I will not accept the triangle as the final gauge. At a certain point I set aside a modern bubble level when leveling vault doors as it is not accurate enough. Tthat process I haven't bought into play yet. Not sure if it will. I have one mehod for getting blocks up the pointy thing that I don't think the builders were slick enough to come up with. Block from botttom to top non stop, around corners and all, rollers thank you. Is your contention wooden roolers aren't durable enough? Seems they'd last longer than being dragged. And I've a couple of new ideas that use my road and dragged sleds with much less drag than anyhing presently out there. Just to shut up the drag a damn sled because I like pain people.

It's getting silly.

Just though of this one man roller device. One man stays behind picking up the rollers as they come out the back and doesn't have to keep walking to the front to place them. Safer too.

Do you know how long it takes to chisel out one average block?

You know they still do that today? I think one man sharpening chisels could keep up with 2 or three chiselers. And wood splitting? I don't think so. I grew up up north, only son, Dad burned about 7 cord a year. Logs, even more so because of heir length don't just split like you're suggesting. If you've split as many cord as I, then we can war.

Maybe as the rollers wore down they were used other places like on the steps, eh? Seen the lane drawings? Seen that suggested before? That's like what? 6-7 original ideas, that work, maybe.

We need an idea for keeping rollers spinning in place with out axels or bearings.

I think your Magician fellow joined my site just to tattle on me to my Dad.

What's up with that? Like that would do anyhing but ammuse him. When your thread is the most viewed and replied to by far on the whole site and stays like that forever and ever Amen and some tin foil hat site mod comes narcing that is the stuff of material, comic that is, what I call "self smacking".

I'm better than cash donations for Dad cause I draw a crowd baby.

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Wait till the big blocks. It's so simple.

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#41 User is offline   louie 


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Posted 26 August 2006 - 04:55 PM

So baiscally what is being said here is that we dont know how long it took to make the pyramids. so that would mean we dont know when they were started so we dont know who started the project. and we dont know how old the sphynx is either. is that correct
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#42 User is offline   Twitch98 


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Posted 26 August 2006 - 07:38 PM

Yes, the Turin Papyrus attributes Cheops as reigning for 23 years, Herodotus said abot 50 and other sources talk about 65 years. Most of the accepted luminaries of Egyptology ascribe to the 23 years.

While this other character seems to only wish to selectively make fun of some of my statements he answers none of the questions other than that it is possible to move a great weight vertically using a technique that has been recreated recently in Egypt. It took like 2 hours to use wedges to raise a meter cube a meter high. grin2.gif They'd still be building it if that was the only method used.

The fact remains that a stone had to be fitted into its final place every 2.5 minutes during a 12 hour day for 23 years. This doesn't take into account planning the project leveling the site and making a stable base, cutting the stone from the quarries, smoothing it for fit or dressing them where needed. Take that into account and the time allowed for placement per stone goes down!
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#43 User is offline   Harte 


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Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:52 PM

Quote



Quote

Marc,
I have a suggestion.

were at best egotistical broadsides,

which included copious amounts of whining at not being instantly recognized as genius.

- get over youself.

Don't be so over the top.

Harte


See now?

You started it.

I'm telling skeptic.

Gone hurt my feelings. It took a ice cream sunday and my favorite stuffed teddy for my Mom to coax me out of my weeping closet.


Yeah Marc. But I have a quote also:

Quote


I'm getting a lot of resistance to folks even reading this theory. And when some do I get the most idiotic replies. How a simple workable idea can so often be summarily dissmissed is beyond me. And the idiotic reasons some give for rebuke are unreal.

I'm having trouble getting this read, and ideas anyone?
(My emphasis)

BTW, I figured you meant any ideas and not and ideas. Since I did have an idea, I posted it. Seemed on topic and to the point, at least to the point of that particular part of your post.

Anyway, I know you didn't take anything I said personally. My question was to the Mod that made it look like we were having some kind of childish spat or something. Seemed a little over the top, when you consider some of the "conversations" I've seen posted here that were not later commented on by a Mod.

Makes me wonder if that was because another message board was mentioned. D'ya think?

Quote


Hey Harte, what would you say if I could post valid holes and doubts in every single other pyramid theory?

Wouldn't surprise me a bit. You seem to have put quite a bit of thought into this. I've seen posts of people that appear to have put no thought at all into it, and sometimes they have valid problems with the generally accepted theories. Why shouldn't you?

Quote


What so far do you think is the biggest flaw or weakness in my theory? Besides recording porn over the setting of the Kings chamber blocks video.

LOL.

Seriously, if there is any big flaw, it is that to my mind there are probably even easier ways it might have been done. By this I mean certain steps of it might have been done in an even easier manner than you describe. Was I correct that your theories don't include the canals/moats that are supposed to have been used to move stone to the pyramid from quarries on the other side of the Nile?

Also, I still say rollers are unworkable. And that they provide only a little advantage over dragging, considering the need for constant roller replacement (and I do mean constant.)

But, as you know, I mostly agree with you, overall.

QUOTE(Marchimedes @ Aug 25 2006, 10:38 PM) View Post

Do you know the direction the foundations of the possible new ramp led to? If towards the Nile I can give a valid reason. If other direction then I say it's just a wall or something.

Is it known how old Khufu got to be?

Ever seen the solar telescope theory? Very solid. But I didn't do the math.

I don't know the details of either the remains of the ramps or the canal/moats. I believe you can find these at TourEgypt or at Hawass' website (Guardians somethingorother.)

QUOTE(Marchimedes @ Aug 25 2006, 10:38 PM) View Post

I've been well behaved, haven't I?

So much so that I see my advice was not necessary, you apparently had already surmised a better way of communicating your ideas in a way that would more minimize the negative responses.

QUOTE(Marchimedes @ Aug 25 2006, 10:38 PM) View Post

There is no clearance I know of over Top Secret. All need to know at that point.

And when they gonna let me back in that other place? I've got the WTC collapse down solid and am dying to chew on the bomb people.

Tell me Bird didn't lie.

That's called pushing your luck.

I'm not involved at ATS in any way other than posting, so, what do I know? But I will say this, I've never known Byrd to lie. I've corrected mistakes Byrd has made, but only rarely and far fewer times than she has corrected me!

QUOTE(Marchimedes @ Aug 25 2006, 10:38 PM) View Post

Just though of this one man roller device. One man stays behind picking up the rollers as they come out the back and doesn't have to keep walking to the front to place them. Safer too.


Yep, that's the problem I have with your theory. See, wood is a material that has been thoroughly tested by engineering professionals, as it has been used as a building material forever. I can't provide you with the figures myself, but I remember reading where it had been shown that any wood would certainly have been split/crushed by many (not all) of the blocks used in the pyramid construction. It had to do with the rolling motion of the log. Whereas on the other hand, wood could have been used to provide a surface along which to slide the stones (two or three rows of logs in a tracklike layout), given enough lube, without needing constant replacement.

Anyway, as far as I'm aware, in your scenario above, the "one man" that stays behind would be picking up toothpicks, not rollers! grin2.gif

Harte

This post has been edited by Harte: 26 August 2006 - 08:56 PM

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And the Mayan panoramas on my pyramid pajamas haven't helped my little problem.
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#44 User is offline   boorite 


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Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:58 PM

Marc, the source for the Indiana limestone quarry manager's estimate is Christopher Dunn, as stated.

Another way of looking at it is that all 33 limestone quarries currently operating in Indiana could, at current production levels, fill the order for the Khufu pyramid in 70 years, if they did nothing but fill pyramid orders during that time. Given life expectancy in ancient Egypt, that's 3-5 generations of workers in an operation on the scale of all 33 modern, industrial Indiana limestone quarries combined doing nothing but churning out blocks for the one pyramid. It is, in short, a mind-boggling undertaking. Even if moving and placing one huge block is something a safe mover could tell us how to do with bronze-age technology, the scale of the project beggars the imagination.

If you have a countervailing estimate from an industrial source saying what it would take to fill the stone order for the Khufu pyramid, I would like to hear it. You can spare the bluster and sensationalism. It's not necessary, and in fact it tends to deter me from reading your posts.

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 03:57 AM

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Zahi Hahwas has uncovered quarters and facilities that would support 10,000, not 100,000 or more. If ever there were more on a temporary basis there is no archeological record to substantiate it.
Hawass may very well be the director of Egyptian Antiquities but he is hardly the only person on earth capable of sizing up pyramidal building. Others, such as those consulted by Regine Schulz and Matthias Seidel, for example, estimate that number to be as high as 25,000.

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And temporary is all it could have been with the seasonal cycles of food production required to keep the economy humming. Basically a huge influx of untrained temps would be extremely difficult to manage.
There is no actual basis in fact of late for this supposition. It presupposes for example that construction today in northern climates is only done by farmers during their off season. There are numerous writings from Egypt which speak to a conscription and or the year round assignment to construction labour, such as the Instruction of Dua-Khety. Much can be learned from the writings of Ani as well.

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How do you divide your 10,000 workers? How many are quarrymen, masons, block pullers, crew bosses and others. Recent estimates that 1,500 stone cutters produced 100 tons of finished stones per day. This 200,000 pounds of stones from, say, 250 six-man teams. They ranged from 2.5 to 15 tons in weight. At 2.5 tons per stone (2.5 was the minimum size) that’s just 80 per day, far short of our 273 minimum that need to be placed per diem if a schedule of 23 years is to be kept.
This is akin to my earlier statement that only one block at a time was moved into place. Consider what we know-

some blocks weighed 10 tonnes and the smallest 2 tonnes.
the shallower the dig, the easier it is to haul heavier blocks out of the quarry.

If we presume that every block was cut to specification before it left the quarry then we presume that the architects required a block to be cut, transported and placed before the next can be carved. But, we know too that the blocks on each course were not all equal in dimension. If therefore the stonemasons were able to cut a 10 tonne block from the quarry and transport it onto the structure, then we know that they could take advantage of cutting a single slab of block- say 10 tonnes again, transport it from quarry to base and then cut it into the size they needed. Using the 2.5 tonne average, a single 10 tonne block would require 3 less cuts in the quarry and 3 fewer trips to and from the quarry if hauled out in one piece. There is nothing to say that the stones were cut precisely prior to being placed either as if I recall, Petrie noted rock debris on the sides of the pyramids. That 80 per day would therefore increase exponentially.



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