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Bin Laden


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#1    blazeboy84

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Posted 30 October 2003 - 11:42 PM

Do you think US government should be blamed for 9/11 or do you think BIn Laiden is the devil of the demonish act. Or a patriot of Afgan?

Bin Laiden and some other terrorist groups were giving over a million dollars, weapons of destruction(rocket lauchers, machineguns, missle launchers etc.) and special C.I.A. training to attack and kill the Soviets.

Do you think its okay to kill innocent soviets but not americans? I am american myself. And I do get pissed of when I see countries burn american flags. And also, there are a few shows thats deticated to american stupidity in canada. Like An American in Canada, Air Farce One etc. I do not agree that the people are stupid, perhaps more than 50% americans are one of the most succesful people(rich) of the world.

But I do agree that the US government is lets just say "Like to start fights and bother other people's business. For example... US gov. Gave money and weapon to Iraq to kill their enemy(forgot who) and gave the enemies of Iraqis to destroy Iraq. After the war, American Gov. noticed the threat the Iraqis had so... The gulf war between Iraq and USA begun in 1991.

Now the USA has countless problems that they COULD NOT SOLVE yet and are starting to bother other people's business like the fightings in columbia, the war between Isreal and Palestine. Doesnt this create more enemies?


#2    Seraphina

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 12:58 AM

When discussing the US' foreign policies, I'm afraid the phrase "our might knows not our borders" springs to mind each and every time. The US meddles...it's always meddled...and more often than not it meddles for stupid reasons?

Every time someone celebrates the troops "protecting our freedom" in Iraq...I just feel myself saying "wha...? Protecting it from who? Iraq wasn't a fundamentalist country, it had nothing to do with 9/11...and the only weaponry he had of any note was given to him by the US in the first place...what's he gonna attack us with? A chemical weapon launched from a sling shot?"

It's...insane. As much as I do think the war on Iraq, now that it's over, was probably a good thing in the long run...I don't agree with the reasons for it happening, and I also don't agree with US and British troops getting killed over there for the sake of bettering the lives of the very people who are killing them.



I think the US government certainly should accept a degree of responsibility for 9/11 certainly...it was, after all, down mostly to their ridiculous attitude to the situation between Isrial and Palestine. However...at the end of the day, it was conducted by people who are incapable of thinking as we know it...most people in the middle east are, as a culture, at the same level we were during the crusades, only they're armed with modern weaponry...oh joy...nobody could have predicted 9/11 I don't think...an event like that just wouldn't enter into the minds of normal, rational people.

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#3    Kryso

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 01:15 AM

I donít believe any one country has the right to try and police the world! But saying that, there should be someone, oh wait there is, itís called United Nations!

But you also have to remember that America is the largest arms dealer in the world, and then they get upset when the people they sell them too, turn around and use them on them! (Donít worry Iím not anti-American.)

No offence Blazeboy 84, but what do you mean when you say ďDo you think its okay to kill innocent soviets but not Americans?Ē People are people, regardless of creed color or race. They have just as much right to live as you do!

And when you say America has some of the richest people in the world! All countries have rich, regardless. Even the poorest countries in the world have millionaires, normally who become rich through exploiting those beneath themselves.

And when you say ďAnd also, there are a few shows thatís dedicated to American stupidity in Canada...Ē And? Everyone takes the pee out of everyone else, its called fun. I find it ironic that you have freedom of speech and can say Ďalmostí anything, but when some other country uses that same freedom, you donít like it!

Please no one take any of this the wrong way, but all over the world people are dieing everyday, millions a week. And no body really cares. It drives me mad that with the money the world spends on arms, in one day if that money was used for the benefit of the poor, and hungry, then it would sort all the worlds problems out!

And I agree with you, America has loads of domestic problems, and donít take this the wrong way, but wouldnít you Americas prefer if they spent the money on you, more jobs, better hospitals excreta? Iím not saying donít help those that truly need it, and America has done some amazing things, but not every country out there wants a big brother looking over there shoulder Ė thatís what the United Nations is for!

And donít even get me started on Iraq, lol, just kiddingÖ But even though in the long run its sort of been helpful, I think? Wouldnít the 80 billion dollars gone to something better. Donít get me wrong, Iím not saying the Iraq people donít deserve it, but you spend 80 billion or so, on a war they never asked for!



#4    Seraphina

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 02:15 AM

oh dear god...not the United Nations and their "criminals are victims too" crap...I'd rather have the US looking over my shoulder ph34r.gif

I got a question...why is it that, when Iraq has them, it's "weapons of mass destruction", while when the US has them it's "a nuclear deterant"

huh.gif  

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#5    gollum

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 07:50 PM

QUOTE
It's...insane. As much as I do think the war on Iraq, now that it's over, was probably a good thing in the long run...I don't agree with the reasons for it happening, and I also don't agree with US and British troops getting killed over there for the sake of bettering the lives of the very people who are killing them.


The war in Iraq is NOT OVER and if N.Ireland is anything to go by it wont be over for a very long time!!!! disgust.gif  

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#6    gonzowalker

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 09:10 PM

All I know is that a friend of mine...just a kid, died in Afghanastan. I don't know who is to blame, but it ain't him. Last time I saw him, we were getting his grandma's cows out of the road. I guess someone has to do something about the terrorists. I often wonder who the real terrorists are though.

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#7    Seraphina

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 10:10 PM

If the war is not over, then please tell me who you're fighting now? Saddam is gone...it's quite likely he's not coming back (dead, or gone into hiding most likely), his forces are an absolute shambles, and the only people fighting the US troops anymore are civilians who didn't want our help in the first place (did you miss the part where they were shooting at you in the insane rush to reach the capital?)

If you want the war to be over, then do the smart thing...pull out, let them have their little civil war which will kill thousands of them, and maybe the ones that are left will have wised up a little. I don't agree one bit with our troops dying for the sake of these people...they don't want our help in the first place.

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#8    gollum

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 12:31 PM

the people that the coalition forces are fighting in the country of Iraq are terrorists.

let's go back to the beginning. Sadam Hussian knew that his troops had no chance against the forces facing him, so, and i have no doubt about this, his battle plan was guerilla warfare, it's the only type of warfare that a weaker force can use to "defend" it's people in this situation.

when i say "defend" it's people what i should say is defend the terrorists own interests. The people of Iraq have been down-trodden for centuries and only the few have ever gained from the enormous wealth that the country generates. They could quite easily have one of the best health and educational structures in place, if only there psychotic dictator of a boss did'nt pick fights with every neighbour on his door-step.

Do'nt get me wrong, Britain and more so America, have created this current situation, so is'nt it up to them to rectify the problem? If, and i mean if, they are true to there word, do you not think, that in years to come when all this blodshed and misery is over, that Iraq could and, hopefully will be, a shining example to rest of the middle east?

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#9    Seraphina

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 01:09 PM

Excuse me? Terrorists? Did you, or did you not realise that the US troops are an invading army, whatever their purpose, in their country? The fact that they use bombs and suicide charges in trucks to try and kill this invading army does not made them terrorists.

If someone were to invade my country, then you can be damn sure I'd use absolutely everything at my disposal to fight them off. Would you call me a terrorist for doing that? As I said, these people don't want our help...You might actually find that they hate us. The fact that they're fighting back to try and get control of their own country, because to their eyes, I'm willing to bet it doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon, does not make them terrorists.

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#10    gollum

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 01:30 PM

Depending on what stand-point you take, there is a very fine line between TERRORIST and FREEDOM FIGHTER, the so-called "freedom fighters" in Iraq are not trying to free their country of an invading army they are in fact trying to de-stabilise an already instable situation.

For a group of "terrorists" to continually attack the, already stretched, supply lines which are bringing in humanetarian aid to the people of Iraq and to bomb and destroy the water supply lines which, coincidently, where put in place by coalition troops for the health and well-being of said people. This does'nt look to me like "freedom fighters" looking after the interests of it's people.

Just for the record, this is my opinion and i do'nt mean to offend anyone, but any soldier who joins the armed forces knows that at some point in their career they will be expected to travel to the far flung corners of the world to do justice to the opressed, and any soldier who joins up and does'nt realise this is not only naive but, again, in my opinion, stupid!



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#11    Seraphina

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 01:40 PM

I think your definition of a terrorist is slightly warped...The US troops are not a legitimate power there, they have never been wanted or accepted by the population, and whether you choose to like it or not, they're a hostile occupation force.

I'm not calling the people who are attacking them freedom fighters either. They're just the opposition. The fact that the US has helicopters and assault rifles, and their opponents have home made bombs and limited resources does not make them terrorists.

It's not some phantom military force, as you seem to be implying...it's armed civilians setting themselves up in opposition to the troops. It's their country, it's their land, and they're trying to remove an occupying army from it. That doesn't exactly smack of terrorism to me.

I accept that soldiers are expected to do their duty, blablabla...but screw it. I'm sick of hearing of our troops dying out there, being killed by the very people we're supposed to be 'liberating'. It's absolutely insane. Leave them to it! I don't give a crap what happens to their country...hell, I didn't give a crap when Saddam was in power either. What I do give a crap about is the fact that our men and women are being killed over a cause that is absolutely meaningless.

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#12    gollum

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 01:56 PM

I do'nt think that over-thowing a dictator like Sadam is a pointless exercise. The people of Iraq have been and still are being opressed by the "bully boy" tactics of the "terrorist/freedom fighters who are causing mayhem in that country. You say let's pull out and leave them to it. If we go back to the last gulf war, the southern Iraqi people stood up and took up arms against the ruling factions in Iraq, thinking that they would have full support of the coalition forces, that support never materialised and they where slaughtered in their thousands, so do you think that if we pulled out now, those same, like-minded people would not suffer 10 fold for their actions this time round?



That old saying "you've made your bed now you will lie in it" springs to mind.

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#13    Seraphina

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 02:08 PM

Okay...I'll try not to be blunt...

"I don't care" tongue.gif

Saddam being in power, or out of it, made absolutely no difference to us whatsoever. We didn't even have any right to interfere. Who on earth made the US and Britain the world's watch dog?

I care far more about seeing our troops coming back alive and well, than I do about a civil war from a backward nation who don't even know what's good for them. I have absolutely no doubt that, if we pulled out, there would be a civil war in Iraq that would cost thousands of lives...but I still don't care.

We've lost more troops after the battles ended than we did during them, and it's because these people don't want us in their country. I say give the people what they want. Going into Iraq was a mistake in the first place...how it was handled was an absolute blunder, and if the "make your bed and lie in it" part didn't apply, you can bet we would have pulled out by now.

If Bush and Blair have to retire, so what? It wouldn't be the biggest loss the world has ever seen (Bush retiring would actually be a relief). I honestly don't care what the Iraquis do, so long as our troops aren't there to be killed by it.  

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#14    gollum

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 02:18 PM

ok, that's fair enough, i just do'nt like sitting back and watching weak people being bullied by thugs with guns. Our troops are the best PAECE KEEPING forces in the world, and i do'nt doubt that given enough time and effort they will stabilize Iraq for the good of its people and the rest of the middle east.

You'le have to excuse me just now as i have to get off this high horse and do the dishes( who's being opressed now?) whistling2.gif  

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#15    Seraphina

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 02:42 PM

We're the best? Really? Wow...and there I was thinking the US killed more friendly troops during the combat than the enemy did...

The US are really good at keeping peace...yeah...that must be why they're backing Israel...that...little country that causes about 80% of the trouble in the middle east.

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