231 replies to this topic

[turbonium]

Quote

The easy explanation for that is that the camera was still at the time. It split's up into primary colours when you move it.

Gav, it may seem to you that this is an "easy" explanation, but the important point is whether or not it is a valid explanation.

1. Can gold actually be split up into the primary colors?

Gold is not the combination of red, yellow and blue - the primary colors. Gold is essentially yellow (primary color) and sometimes yellow-orange (primary color yellow combined with primary color red create the color orange)

2. Is it actually primary colors that are seen in the relevant sections of the video clip?

In the image below, for example, there are blue-green, white and flesh tones visible. These are not primary colors - in fact, white is created by all the primary colors combined together.



3. Is camera movement actually occuring throughout the relevant (suggested areas of LM gold) segments of footage?  

Look at the gif clip below, or the actual online clip here...

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a12/a12v.1155619.rm

At about 2:06 in the online clip, also seen in the gif clip below, the camera moves to the right and stops momentarily before moving back to the left.



The image below is seen during this time - when there is almost no camera movement...



There is no splitting up into primary colors in the above image, nor is there any gold mylar, while there is very little camera movement.

4. Are there any examples of the colors being split up into primaries elsewhere in the clip?

No. In fact, there is a lot of white seen in the clip while the camera is moving about, but they aren't split up into primary colors at all.

Sorry, Gav, but I don't find the "moving camera making gold split up into primary colors" theory even remotely valid.

Cheers

Edited by turbonium, 01 October 2006 - 08:42 AM.

[phunk]

The camera images red, then green, then blue, in 3 separate passes.  When the camera moves too fast, this results in the colors being offset and overlapping in different ways.  You can clearly see that on the white lines in the image.  That effect can alter the color of objects.

As for the gold, I can clearly see gold in those images, the color is just off a bit in that video, it wasn't in direct sunlight.

[turbonium]

There is yet another anomaly in this same Apollo 12 video clip. It occurs from about 2:15 to 2:23. The camera moves from the "Moon surface" upwards, and presto! - we see a row of lights above, pointing down.....





Even though the camera moves about, and there is a short period of time when the image is blacked out to a degree, the lights are seen remaining in a straight line together, at an angle from downward at left to upward at right.

This is, IMO, certainly a bank of lights as is commonly used in film studios, such as here...

  

[flyingswan]

Quote

There is yet another anomaly in this same Apollo 12 video clip. It occurs from about 2:15 to 2:23. The camera moves from the "Moon surface" upwards, and presto! - we see a row of lights above, pointing down.....

This is, IMO, certainly a bank of lights as is commonly used in film studios, such as here...

Or possibly reflections in the lens as the camera is pointed more towards the direction of the sun.  The picture going dark is probably the auto exposure mechanism reducing the aperture.  Check how the angle of your "lights" changes as the camera pans across the surface.

Edited by flyingswan, 03 October 2006 - 07:36 AM.

[straydog]

turbs ....  Here is a still photograph from the Apollo 12 photo shoot confirming your evidence that banks of stage lights were used on the set , among other things .... Good job finding them in this video clip as well !

Edited by straydog, 03 October 2006 - 07:38 PM.

[Trinitrotoluene]

Apollo reference number or no cigar ^^^

Not that I don't believe it's from a NASA picture, but I'd like to look at the uncropped higher resolution picture....

[straydog]

It's a visor close up of AS12-48-7133

[Redtail]

If it's a bank of stage lights where are the other shadows?

[Waspie_Dwarf]

See why we wish to see the full image straydog? Once an uncropped image is there for all to see your "stagelights" and "ceiling fan object" become plain to decipher. They are simply the reflections of the Surveyor solar panel.

[MID]

Quote

There is yet another anomaly in this same Apollo 12 video clip. It occurs from about 2:15 to 2:23. The camera moves from the "Moon surface" upwards, and presto! - we see a row of lights above, pointing down.....





Even though the camera moves about, and there is a short period of time when the image is blacked out to a degree, the lights are seen remaining in a straight line together, at an angle from downward at left to upward at right.

This is, IMO, certainly a bank of lights as is commonly used in film studios, such as here...

Turb:

When this camera is angled up from the spurious views of the lunar surface, what you're seeing is the camera lens unfortunately being pointed East, and unfortunately, right at the sun, which is, at that time, at an angle of only about 7.5 degrees above the horizon.  It is being moved by hand in a rather random fashion.

What you see are momentary reflections within the lens body of this extremely bright light (perhaps 1/4 second or so), as it is pointed directly into the sun.   The camera then fries. At 2:17-2:18 you are seeing as TV camera look at the sun.  About 4 seconds later, the pictures starts to "wig-out", as the internal mechanism has had it.  

This is precisely what the camera was pointed into , at about the same angle:


AS12-46-6739



  

That's about all that's actually there.  
I, respectfully,  see no stage light rigging in the photo above, which is in fact taken by a Hasselblad at just aboiut the precise angle that the TV camera was pointed when it fried....


Regards.

[Trinitrotoluene]

Quote

See why we wish to see the full image straydog? Once an uncropped image is there for all to see your "stagelights" and "ceiling fan object" become plain to decipher. They are simply the reflections of the Surveyor solar panel.

Straydog you should probably open another thread or somat, I don't want to push this one of course.

Waspie, I don't think the 'bank of stagelights' is actually a reflection of  the surveyor solar panel, I think it's the just how the sunlight is hitting the helmet.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a12/AS12-48-7136HR.jpg

See the same effect here?

[AtomicDog]

Going back to the "technicians" clip, I decided to take the frames that turbonium provided and compared them th the LM:

AS12-46-6726



I then cut out the most likely location that the video camera was moving around:



I then pieced together portions of turbonium's frames:



Like I said before, the video camera sees the scene at a sharper angle, and there is a whale of distortion caused by camera movement, but the struts, black panel and gold mylar are clearly visible in both the hasselblad photo and my reconstruction of the video stills. If these stills were not of the LM, I would not be able to piece them together to anything near resembling it.

I invite comments from viewers of this thread.

Edited by AtomicDog, 04 October 2006 - 01:14 AM.

[straydog]

Quote

See why we wish to see the full image straydog? Once an uncropped image is there for all to see your "stagelights" and "ceiling fan object" become plain to decipher. They are simply the reflections of the Surveyor solar panel.

Not even close ... As you can see from the original photo, the Surveyor has TWO WIDE PANELS , NOT FOUR NARROW ONES , as the fan object clearly has .

Also the photo that Gavsto posted trying to debunk the bank of stage lights , does not explain this anomaly either,  because in his photo the 'sun' is in a very DIFFERENT POSITION from the photo I posted a close up shot of  .... So the 'sun' could not be creating the bank of stage lights in my photo , as they are on the OPPOSITE SIDE of the visor reflection from the 'sun' .... Not on the SAME SIDE , as in the one he posted .. Pretty clever Gav , but like you said ....  No cigar .  

[Waspie_Dwarf]

Quote

Waspie, I don't think the 'bank of stagelights' is actually a reflection of  the surveyor solar panel, I think it's the just how the sunlight is hitting the helmet.

You could be right. However onething I'm sure of... if they were spot lights that solar panel would be casting shadows all over the place.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 04 October 2006 - 02:11 AM.

[straydog]

The 'sun in this photo is ridicuolus looking ... Isn't the moon the same approximate distance from the sun that the Earth is ? ....  This light source is obviously very close to the edge of the moon set and even looks as though it is only a few feet off of the ground .

It's called a SPOTLIGHT !!