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Apollo - Video Anomalies?


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#91    hplasm

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 12:35 AM

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.... I think the correct explanation for these dub overs would be that he found them on nasa sites and decided to bust out nasa and their bogus 'moon' missions .



Wow. There's cunning doublethink.

Hide the proof in plain site on the intarweb, where no-one would look for it.

A better alternative than not making a crap hoax that any dimwit could expose.    rolleyes.gif

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.... I think


You keep using this phrase- I'm not sure you know what it means...


#92    straydog

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 12:46 AM

clavius !?!?  ...  All Jay Utah's clavius site has to offer are insults and lies ... It's called let's shoot the messenger because we can't stop the message ...

This is not a proper way to debate , as it is nothing but the twisted opinion of one man who will stop at nothing to defend nasa .... His erroneous version of why millions of people believe that Apollo never landed on the moon couldn't be any more off base if he tried .

This type of program of ad homs and ridicule has been in place ever since the U S government decided to cover up the truth about UFO's by dis-crediting the witnesses .... It is condescending and arrogant ... Just like the man who posts this kind of trash on his web site .

I would rather be in the minority and know the truth , than to be in the majority and be in denial of the truth .

#93    straydog

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 12:58 AM

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Wow. There's cunning doublethink.

Hide the proof in plain site on the intarweb, where no-one would look for it.

A better alternative than not making a crap hoax that any dimwit could expose.    rolleyes.gif
You keep using this phrase- I'm not sure you know what it means...



hplasm ...  I am tired of your uncalled for personal attacks and insults .... Your post has been reported .

I would rather be in the minority and know the truth , than to be in the majority and be in denial of the truth .

#94    Pericynthion

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 02:32 AM

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Both voice dub overs are nasa's and seem to belong to this same video , as the movements of the astronauts and the astronaut's voice overs are completely synchronized .

Can you show any proof that the Apollo 16 "house rock" belongs to another video instead of this one ?

The "guy selling it " sure isn't doing it for monetary gain on Google videos .... I think the correct explanation for these dub overs would be that he found them on nasa sites and decided to bust out nasa and their bogus 'moon' missions .

So my point is ... none of what nasa shows us in their phony videos was filmed "live on the moon " .. or even filmed on the moon at all .

Straydog,

As you should remember, since you were actively posting in the thread, MID has already given an explanation for this clip.  The first segment of the Hawkins video is a complete forgery.  The second segment is the real footage from Apollo 16.  Here's a link to MID's post from July 22:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...t&p=1279674

Here's a link to the transcript and video for the authentic segment from the Hawkins video:  ALSJ - Plum Crater

And here's a link to the Apollo 16 EVA 3 transcript and video clips at House Rock, from which some of the audio bits from the first segment of Hawkins' video were lifted:  ALSJ - House Rock

If, as you suggest, Hawkins found these clips on a NASA site, you should be able to do the same.  Please show me a NASA source for a video clip, audio recording, or even a transcript of the exact dialog from Hawkins' first segment.  Oh, and while the "guy selling it" isn't making any money off of Google video, he IS selling a book which he conveniently advertises right in his video description.


#95    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 02:49 AM

hplasm, please do not implying that straydog is incapable of thinking.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#96    straydog

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 03:32 AM

Waspie_dwarf ... I have no doubt if I had been the one to insult hpalsm that your post to me would have been worded quite differently ... Like maybe "you are now skating on thin ice " , or something else just as threatening .

Pericynthion .... I can't believe you would expect me to remember one of MID's long winded posts from last July ... especially since the post was not addressed to me .

I'm sorry but your transcripts only prove that these words were spoken by the astronauts , but does not prove which video nasa assigned them to ... Do you have a video of the "house rock " transcript to prove that the action fit the dialogue ? ... and if not , why would you expect me to find one ? ..... So if you can't provide a video of the house rock dialogue with the action to match it ,  I will have to assume that Hawkins caught nasa in yet another bit of forgery .... If he is selling a book about the Apollo hoax, then good for him .... I hope to do the same someday .

I would rather be in the minority and know the truth , than to be in the majority and be in denial of the truth .

#97    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 04:35 AM

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Waspie_dwarf ... I have no doubt if I had been the one to insult hpalsm that your post to me would have been worded quite differently ... Like maybe "you are now skating on thin ice " , or something else just as threatening .


You are probably correct straydog but then that is because you seem to be totally incapable of remaining within the rules of this site.

Another reminder is clearly in order:

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#98    Trinitrotoluene

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 04:39 AM

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1673603.rm
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1673855.rm
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1674207.rm
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1674442.rm
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1674753.rm
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1675046.rm
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1675338.rm
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1675621.rm
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1675909.rm
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1680147.rm
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1680439.rm

That's the entire video sequence of them at house rock. I believe the ones you're looking for are the third and fourth.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/video16.html

Go to that page and scroll down to the House Rock section if you want to associate them with times

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#99    straydog

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 05:17 AM

Gavsto ....  I just listened to clip number three and four about the "house rock"  and the dialogue doesn't match the dialogue in the Hawkins clip I posted here  .... It's not even close ! ....  In fact the videos you posted could have been put with any dialogue,  as the astronauts were too far away to even tell what they were doing .

Sorry , but you haven't proven that the Hawkins video was fabricated in any respect ....  He claims they are official nasa videos with their original over dubs , and so far I haven't seen anything to disprove his claim .

I would rather be in the minority and know the truth , than to be in the majority and be in denial of the truth .

#100    Pericynthion

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 05:47 AM

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Pericynthion .... I can't believe you would expect me to remember one of MID's long winded posts from last July ... especially since the post was not addressed to me .

Ok, straydog, I agree and I apologize for coming across a bit harsh.  I shouldn't assume that everyone has read all of the posts in threads to which they're posting.  Still, the search feature here works pretty well and it would have been easy to find MID's original post before starting up the topic again.  Anyway, it's a moot point because we're here again, so let's move along ...

Quote


I'm sorry but your transcripts only prove that these words were spoken by the astronauts , but does not prove which video nasa assigned them to ... Do you have a video of the "house rock " transcript to prove that the action fit the dialogue ? ... and if not , why would you expect me to find one ? ..... So if you can't provide a video of the house rock dialogue with the action to match it ,  I will have to assume that Hawkins caught nasa in yet another bit of forgery .... If he is selling a book about the Apollo hoax, then good for him .... I hope to do the same someday .

I can't show you a NASA video or audio clip of the House Rock segment like the one Hawkins shows because it doesn't exist anywhere else except in his video.  It's a fake.  I see that Gavsto has already given you links to the real House Rock videos, so you can look through them and find the bits of audio that Hawkins pieced together.  MID gives you all the information you need in his "long-winded" post.

If you want to prove that NASA forged something, you'll have to find an official source for the video Hawkins' claims to have found.  You have the burden of proof here.  The evidence clearly shows that Hawkins' pieced together several bits of existing dialog from other portions of the Apollo 16 EVAs which are already in the public record.



#101    turbonium

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 07:52 AM

Quote


Hi turbonium.  The "anti-strut" arguments you make above are all explained by characteristics which have been shown to you before:


Can you not see that these are shots of the same object taken from somewhat different positions?  Yes, there are some features visible in one image, but not the other.  This is to be expected.  The video camera is much closer to the LM and is looking up into the RCS plume deflector assembly.  Please refer back to AtomicDog's and Krynoid's posts for a list of all the matching features between these images.  How likely is it that a detailed collage could be assembled and all those features matched with the Hasselblad images if this is not a truly a video of the Apollo 12 lunar module?


Hi Pericynthion

We will agree to disagree on the "struts" argument. I have not heard an explanation for

1.The large "sheet" of white material in the video can be a strut of the LM.

2. Why the white material in the video clip is attached to the top of the black material if they are LM struts.

3. Why there are multiple white lines going in one direction if these are LM struts.

The still below shows all three of these characteristics...  

user posted image
_________________________________________________________________________

What about the gold mylar??

I have also yet to hear decent explanations for...

1. How gold mylar can not be gold in color in every one of the stills below (except if we consider only the chair to be somewhat "gold"...

user posted image

2. How gold mylar can be absent of any gold color, and yet create the white, blue-green and flesh tones seen in stills 3 and 6.

3. How gold mylar can create a three dimensional chair in stills 1 and 2.

4. How gold mylar can create the incredible image depth seen in all these stills, most notably in stills 1, 2 and 3.

These effects are, as I said before, no less than holographic, if we are to believe this is gold mylar.

So I'd like to issue a challenge: from the entire Apollo photo and video archive, try and find even one single example of gold mylar exhibiting the four characteristics I've listed above.

Point 1: You may succeed in finding a washed out image that lacks color - so little or no color may be obvious, hence little gold of the mylar will appear as well.  

Point 2: So far, the only comparison has been with some flashing colors shooting out from the bottom of the LM in an Apollo 17 video clip. I'd like to see something that is actually worthwhile in comparison.

Point 3: The three dimensional chair is quite something. I would be amazed to see any object appear even remotely realistic to this created by gold mylar.

Point 4: The image depth. Again, I'd love to see another example of the seemingly incredibly holographic effects of gold mylar.
_____________________________________________________________________________

The independent movements

Obviously, if this is the LM, there won't be any parts of it moving around on their own. So to eliminate any possibility that camera movement is responsible, I first identified details that can be used as reference points - the "metal end" and the "white object" below, in stills 2 and 3...

user posted image

Using these reference points, I measured the distance between the bottom line of the black material and the white object. The two stills show a very prominent variance in distance between the bottom line of the black material and the white object....

user posted image

Another still compared with still 2 from above, again showing the variance in distance...

user posted image










#102    phunk

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 08:52 AM

Quote


Hi Pericynthion

We will agree to disagree on the "struts" argument. I have not heard an explanation for

1.The large "sheet" of white material in the video can be a strut of the LM.

2. Why the white material in the video clip is attached to the top of the black material if they are LM struts.

3. Why there are multiple white lines going in one direction if these are LM struts.

The still below shows all three of these characteristics...  

user posted image

Motion blur.  You can see the same area with much less blur in the previous frames, why do you pick the blurriest one as your example?

Quote


_________________________________________________________________________

What about the gold mylar??

I have also yet to hear decent explanations for...

1. How gold mylar can not be gold in color in every one of the stills below (except if we consider only the chair to be somewhat "gold"...

user posted image

I see exactly what gold would look like in a crappy video camera with poor lighting.

Quote


2. How gold mylar can be absent of any gold color, and yet create the white, blue-green and flesh tones seen in stills 3 and 6.

I don't see an absense of gold, and you've been shown how color separation happens with this type of camera when it moves.

Quote


3. How gold mylar can create a three dimensional chair in stills 1 and 2.

I really have no idea what 'chair' you're talking about, I just don't see it.

Quote


4. How gold mylar can create the incredible image depth seen in all these stills, most notably in stills 1, 2 and 3.

What depth?  All I see is random patterns in the ripples of some gold mylar.
QUOTE

These effects are, as I said before, no less than holographic, if we are to believe this is gold mylar.

So I'd like to issue a challenge: from the entire Apollo photo and video archive, try and find even one single example of gold mylar exhibiting the four characteristics I've listed above.

Point 1: You may succeed in finding a washed out image that lacks color - so little or no color may be obvious, hence little gold of the mylar will appear as well.  

Point 2: So far, the only comparison has been with some flashing colors shooting out from the bottom of the LM in an Apollo 17 video clip. I'd like to see something that is actually worthwhile in comparison.

Point 3: The three dimensional chair is quite something. I would be amazed to see any object appear even remotely realistic to this created by gold mylar.

Point 4: The image depth. Again, I'd love to see another example of the seemingly incredibly holographic effects of gold mylar.


You must have a very creative imagination if this is what you call 'seemingly incredibly holographic effects'.

QUOTE

_____________________________________________________________________________

The independent movements

Obviously, if this is the LM, there won't be any parts of it moving around on their own. So to eliminate any possibility that camera movement is responsible, I first identified details that can be used as reference points - the "metal end" and the "white object" below, in stills 2 and 3...

user posted image

Using these reference points, I measured the distance between the bottom line of the black material and the white object. The two stills show a very prominent variance in distance between the bottom line of the black material and the white object....

user posted image

Another still compared with still 2 from above, again showing the variance in distance...

user posted image


Your method is flawed from the start, since you ignore the effect of parallax due to the camera being so close to the subject.  With a moving camera, it would be nearly impossible for the measurement to remain constant from frame to frame.

Also what you call the 'white object' in each frame is not the same spot.


#103    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 10:38 AM

To seem intelligent. Conspiracy theories are often much more elaborate than what's commonly believed about something. And they usually require the listener to expand his understanding to accept the possibility of a conspiracy. Those who casually examine photographs of the lunar landings are impressed when they are led to discover discrepancies. This inflates the ego and gives one the impression that he is smarter than the dozens who look at the same photographs and see nothing special.

Edit - Removed huge unnecessary quote

Edited by SaRuMaN, 08 October 2006 - 03:14 PM.

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#104    straydog

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 02:50 PM

itsnotoutthere ....  Still quoting Jay Utah's snide comments from his mis-informed clavius site I see ... Don't you have any original ideas of your own ? ... Usually when people have to constantly quote other's insults , it means that they themselves have nothing to offer to the discussion but insults ... and that equates to offering nothing of value at all , but rather the exact opposite .... Insults don't make the conspiracy believers look un-intelligent and mis-informed , but they sure speak volumes about the one delivering the insults .

Pericynthion ... Apology accepted , thank you .... but how do we know that Hawkins edited the video clips and not nasa ? .... and if nasa did do this and then realized their mistake , why would it still be available on any of their web sites ? .... If Hawkins spiced this together , wouldn't nasa have busted him out for doing this bit of deception ? ... like maybe with a lawsuit ? .... especially since he has written a book about nasa faking the moon landings . ... I find it hard to believe that he would  deliberately edit a nasa video which could so easily be discovered , and then ruin his credibility in the process .

I would rather be in the minority and know the truth , than to be in the majority and be in denial of the truth .

#105    Saru

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Posted 08 October 2006 - 03:12 PM

It is amazing how difficult it appears to be to hold a conversation on this subject without it degenerating into rudeness and snide comments from both sides. Perhaps it demonstrates how fundamentally impossible it is to convince anyone of the opposite viewpoint on this subject. Instead the frustration of being unable to convince the other side of what you 'know' to be fact turns into a loss of patience and inevitably the same exchange of rude remarks and bickering breaks out.

This applies to both sides, and it has to stop. It is not only disruptive to the forum but it ruins what could otherwise be an interesting debate on a popular topic. If people can't discuss this in a civilised manner then in the interests of everyone concerned, the persons involved will in future be denied access to the conspiracy board of the forum.

We've split up the single topic about the Moon Landings because it wasn't working out, and now the same bickering and arguing has found it's way in to the smaller individual topics as well.

Enough is enough.





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