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How did they find us.!?


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#1    Hazzard

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:05 PM

Lets set aside the question of whether advanced galactic societies would have the slightest interest in our wars, WMD, our pollution problems, our reproductive systems or our cows butts.

The real question is, how would they know about us at all?

There is only one way that they can tell from interstellar distance that intelligent creatures inhabit this planet....RADIO. Our radio signals travel at the speed of light, and this means that even with infinitely fast spacecraft, the aliens cant be much farther off than 15 light-years to have reached our lovely planet by 1947,(Rosswell). The number of star systems within 15 light-years is about three dozen. There would have to be 10 billion technically sophisticated societies in the Galaxy to have a reasonable chance of finding one camped out among the nearest three dozen stars. Thats optimism of a high level indeed.

What about warp drive? Lightspeed? Maybe the aliens can create wormholes and get here in essentially no time?

It doesnt matter. Ill worry about how they got here once Im convinced that theyve really made the scene.

To get here they need to know were we are.

Approximately half the U.S. population suspects that extraterrestrials have come to our planet. This is such a controversial (and emotional) topic that its mere mention guarantees a storm of Web chat and high-voltage PMs. In the end, of course, the matter of alien visitation will be decided by the evidence, not by the intensity of opinion.

While I certainly expect that the Galaxy is home to many advanced societies, the quality of the evidence has so far failed to convince me that any of them have emissaries on our planet.




I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#2    Pinowawa1

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:14 PM

This thread may be the first of its kind. Good questions! Perhaps they just know- like a 6th sense ... and maybe SETI's attempts to communicate with them is only keeping the entrance door open to them instead of picking up the reciever...

"I think, therefore I am" - Rene Descartes

#3    Unlimited

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:15 PM

good question hazzard....I believe they've known about earth for billions of years. blush.gif

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#4    badeskov

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:18 PM

hazzard,

Quote


Lets set aside the question of whether advanced galactic societies would have the slightest interest in our wars, WMD, our pollution problems, our reproductive systems or our cows butts.

The real question is, how would they know about us at all?

There is only one way that they can tell from interstellar distance that intelligent creatures inhabit this planet....RADIO. Our radio signals travel at the speed of light, and this means that even with infinitely fast spacecraft, the aliens cant be much farther off than 15 light-years to have reached our lovely planet by 1947,(Rosswell). The number of star systems within 15 light-years is about three dozen. There would have to be 10 billion technically sophisticated societies in the Galaxy to have a reasonable chance of finding one camped out among the nearest three dozen stars. Thats optimism of a high level indeed.

What about warp drive? Lightspeed? Maybe the aliens can create wormholes and get here in essentially no time?

It doesnt matter. Ill worry about how they got here once Im convinced that theyve really made the scene.

To get here they need to know were we are.

Approximately half the U.S. population suspects that extraterrestrials have come to our planet. This is such a controversial (and emotional) topic that its mere mention guarantees a storm of Web chat and high-voltage PMs. In the end, of course, the matter of alien visitation will be decided by the evidence, not by the intensity of opinion.

While I certainly expect that the Galaxy is home to many advanced societies, the quality of the evidence has so far failed to convince me that any of them have emissaries on our planet.


Very good post. Your points reflect my thoughts exactly. I would find myself extremely self-centric if I said that there are no other intelligent civilizations out there; I am convinced there are many. But I highly doubt that any happened to be so close by that they have discovered us in our little, private corner of the galaxy.

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Badeskov

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#5    badeskov

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:20 PM

Quote


good question hazzard....I believe they've known about earth for billions of years. blush.gif


Meaning that they discovered Earth right after it was created?

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Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#6    dmurdock36

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:44 PM

I think they know about us because they are originally from here, that is also why they show interest in our wars and what we are doing to earth, it might possibly have been there home at one time, and for whatever reason they felt a need to leave earth, asteroid heading this way maybe the one that killed the dinosaurs scared them off. Lets face it our view of the history of this earth come only from tales that we have heard and the few things that we have stumbled accross fossils and such, we really dont know all that much and arent learning anymore because we think we know it all, if we find something that doesnt fit with what we know, we spend so much time trying to prove it isnt true that we fail to see the truth. I really dont know this is just a thought that occured to me when reading the thread.


#7    Pax Unum

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 09:58 PM

Quote

I would find myself extremely self-centric if I said that there are no other intelligent civilizations out there; I am convinced there are many. But I highly doubt that any happened to be so close by that they have discovered us in our little, private corner of the galaxy.

Best,
Badeskov

for me the catch is 'intelligence'... I have no problem with there being worlds with life, but if Earth is an example of the average planet, then intelligence is rare... we've gone from knuckle dragging to space in a million years, the dinosaurs were kings of the planet for many millions of years but we don't find real intelligence, even the dinosaurs that survived (Birds), never evolved intelligence in 65 million years... I'm not saying there aren't any other civilizations out there, there just might not be a lot of them. IMO

and space is VAST, the chances of just stumbling upon Earth before we started sending radio waves out into space seems unlikely, they would have to actively search for planets in systems that would 'likely' harbor life... of course they could have really good scanners, or lot's of free time, and ships that can travel quickly across interstellar space...  grin2.gif


#8    badeskov

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 10:01 PM

Quote


I think they know about us because they are originally from here, that is also why they show interest in our wars and what we are doing to earth, it might possibly have been there home at one time, and for whatever reason they felt a need to leave earth, asteroid heading this way maybe the one that killed the dinosaurs scared them off. Lets face it our view of the history of this earth come only from tales that we have heard and the few things that we have stumbled accross fossils and such, we really dont know all that much and arent learning anymore because we think we know it all, if we find something that doesnt fit with what we know, we spend so much time trying to prove it isnt true that we fail to see the truth. I really dont know this is just a thought that occured to me when reading the thread.


Uhm, I would say that we actually know quite a bit about the history of our planet, and one thing abundantly missing is traces of any former civilizations living here. And given that we are talking about a highly advanced race with the capability for interstellar space travel, they should have left behind a bunch of artifacts. Unless they, now that they were faced with an extinction level event in the form of an asteroid, decided to thoroughly clean up before they left and bring everything with them. Somehow that doesn't really sound like the smartest thing to do.

And I certainly wouldn't call our knowledge tales - that might offend a bunch of biologists/anthropologists/geologist/etc.

Best,
Badeskov


"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#9    Pax Unum

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 10:08 PM

Quote


And given that we are talking about a highly advanced race with the capability for interstellar space travel, they should have left behind a bunch of artifacts.

Best,
Badeskov

yeah, you'd think there would be SOME artifacts...  dontgetit.gif


#10    SomethingPoetical

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 10:18 PM

They found us through Myspace, because afterall- it is a place for friends. And they got here through the big ass hole in the ozone layer. Happy I could help.


#11    badeskov

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 10:24 PM

Quote


for me the catch is 'intelligence'... I have no problem with there being worlds with life, but if Earth is an example of the average planet, then intelligence is rare... we've gone from knuckle dragging to space in a million years, the dinosaurs were kings of the planet for many millions of years but we don't find real intelligence, even the dinosaurs that survived (Birds), never evolved intelligence in 65 million years... I'm not saying there aren't any other civilizations out there, there just might not be a lot of them. IMO

and space is VAST, the chances of just stumbling upon Earth before we started sending radio waves out into space seems unlikely, they would have to actively search for planets in systems that would 'likely' harbor life... of course they could have really good scanners, or lot's of free time, and ships that can travel quickly across interstellar space...  grin2.gif


I would have to agree with you. And with intelligence, I am thinking of a race that have evolved to where interstellar travel is possible. As we have no means of detecting and visiting a planet with life on the caveman (or their analogy) stage, well, such planets are not really of any interest to us. So, yes, I would contend that intelligent life is rare as well. But space is a mighty big place and given the number of stars, in my opinion the number of planets inhabited by intelligent beings is high. Nonetheless, I also believe that said planets are spaced pretty far apart and I find it highly unlikely that we will encounter any such in our close neighbourhood original.gif  

Best,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#12    Annointer

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 10:34 PM

Why wouldn't aliens find us if they had the means to travel? If they're anything like humans they'd explore like we would if we had the technology. I'm sure aliens have been gallavanting around for thousands or millions of years so it would be improbable that none would have discovered us.


#13    badeskov

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 10:49 PM

Quote


Why wouldn't aliens find us if they had the means to travel? If they're anything like humans they'd explore like we would if we had the technology. I'm sure aliens have been gallavanting around for thousands or millions of years so it would be improbable that none would have discovered us.


While I would think that any space faring race would also have the urge to explore, space is still a vastly big ocean to navigate. To quote hazzard:

Quote


The real question is, how would they know about us at all?

There is only one way that they can tell from interstellar distance that intelligent creatures inhabit this planet....RADIO. Our radio signals travel at the speed of light, and this means that even with infinitely fast spacecraft, the aliens cant be much farther off than 15 light-years to have reached our lovely planet by 1947,(Rosswell). The number of star systems within 15 light-years is about three dozen. There would have to be 10 billion technically sophisticated societies in the Galaxy to have a reasonable chance of finding one camped out among the nearest three dozen stars. Thats optimism of a high level indeed.


So either we have somebody living in a star system very close by or they simply blundered into us by sheer coincidence. And the latter seems very improbable given the amount of stars.

Best,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#14    Unlimited

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 11:02 PM

Im kind of glad our government lies to us; about the truth in the Universe; not knowing creates such great speculation thumbsup.gif

God Bless America..

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#15    badeskov

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Posted 29 October 2006 - 11:12 PM

Quote


Im kind of glad our government lies to us; about the truth in the Universe; not knowing creates such great speculation thumbsup.gif


Definitely makes for some passionate and interesting discussions. Although I do have hard believing the government could keep this under wraps for so long - we are talking the same government that couldn't even keep secret a simple burglary (watergate).  rolleyes.gif

Best,
Badeskov


"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.




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