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How did they find us.!?


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#256    skyeagle409

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 10:57 PM

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name='the_UNKNOWN_DEAD' date='Nov 11 2006, 08:05 PM' post='1423677']
Why have you constrained your argument to 2 possibilities, only?? You assume that if it isn't a conventional aircraft, then it MUST be an alien spacecraft...there are obviously other possibilities that you have consciously chosen to ignore.

The simplest explanation, (if observers think they have seen an alien spacecraft), is that they are mistaken, given the total lack of actual solid evidence that aliens even exist.

So the question becomes why have you chosen to ignore what is really the "simplest explanation"???


With almost 40 years as a pilot, I understand what the data evidence reveals.

On another note, the data evidence doesn't reveal anything natural, celetrial bodies, atmospheric phenomena, etc, the data evidence only proves that the UFOs in question are intelligently controlled vehicles whose maneuvering capabilities exclude aircraft and I am not emphasizing that lightly.

Edited by skyeagle409, 11 November 2006 - 11:01 PM.

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#257    the_UNKNOWN_DEAD

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 11:16 PM

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With almost 40 years as a pilot, I understand what the data evidence reveals.


Sounds like "argument from authority". Are you trying to say that it would be impossible for you to be mistaken? Talk about hubris.

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...the data evidence doesn't reveal anything natural, celetrial bodies, atmospheric phenomena, etc, the data evidence only proves that the UFOs in question are intelligently controlled vehicles whose maneuvering capabilities exclude aircraft and I am not emphasizing that lightly.


If this were true, then why isn't everyone in agreement over the "alien question"? Why is it that the available evidence doesn't convince everyone?

I happen to have an answer to that last question. The available evidence is simply not convincing. I would love for their to be actual alien visitors, but at the same time, I will not be "fooled" by evidence that simply cannot stand up under critical inquiry.

It's just the way I am...







#258    Isis2200

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 11:20 PM

I think some species of alien have been with us since the beginning of our existence on this planet.   When abductee Whitley Strieber asked the aliens who abducted him "Why did you come here[to Earth]?", he was told "We saw a light."  I don't think they meant the dazzling lights at Vegas or high beams on our cars.

I think the aliens meant the light of the human aura, collectively.  

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#259    skyeagle409

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 11:29 PM

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name='badeskov' date='Nov 11 2006, 09:37 PM' post='1423753']
OK, I am sorry, but I lost your logic in this argument. A "soft target" is normally a name used when a target for some military strike is civilian. I have a hard time applying that to a radar target, but please do enlighten me if I missed something.


Radar mirages do not exihibit the kind of radar returns as metallic objects. For an example, throw a steel ball at a rubber wall and then, throw that same ball at a metal wall. Note the difference in the sound waves that returns to your ears. That is why radar 'ghost angels' are typically known as soft targets (weak signals) and metallic objects are known as 'hard targets' (strong, solid signals).

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And how can we tell whether a target reacts intelligently to radar lock-on, unless said target literally lands at the radar site and tell the people there to turn the radar off and otherwise leave them alone?


Let's take a typical air intercept radar. Air intercept radars have mulitiple modes and sub-modes, so here you are cruising around with your radar in track-and-scan mode when suddenly it jumps into single-target tracking mode, (STT). Now, the radar has grabbed that  object in much the same way as when you grab an angry alley cat with your hand. Judging by feel alone you know what that alley cat is doing and trying to do. An air intercept radar in STT mode will give all kinds of data on the object that is locked on as well such as heading, velocity, aspect headings, altitudes, etc.

So now, you have just locked on to a UFO and just as the UFO was locked, it suddenly maneuvers at multiple Gs and accelerates from 150 mph to over 1000 mph in two seconds and drops in altitude of 4000 feet in one second. The maneuver breaks your radar lock and later, you are able to try again and the same thing happens a second time and this time your wingman also  loses his lock on the UFO as well. You try again and the UFO once again maneuvers to break your lock.  Natural atmospheric phenomena cannot do that and the nature of the information given by the radar in STT mode also indicates that the UFO is not the result of weather-related phenomena, remember the differences between the rubber and metallic walls.

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We can see something moving, but we do not know what it is. And in my point of view we shouldn't begin to try and predict how ET would react.


The question you can ask yourself is, does mankind have a saucer-shaped 100 meter in diameter flying vehicle that can conduct right-angled maneuvers at over 40 Gs and stay intact and then zoom off at 9000 mph within the Earth's atmopshere without creating a sonic boom? If not, then it's safe to say the flying machine is not ours. Many UFO aerial encounters were not only tracked and recorded on radar data tapes but visually confirmed as an artificial metallic saucer-shaped flying machine and that is yet another way you can confirm that the UFO was an intelligently controlled flying machine and why I am very interested in the radar/visual case files as other UFO investigators are.

Edited by skyeagle409, 11 November 2006 - 11:49 PM.

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#260    skyeagle409

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 11:36 PM

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name='the_UNKNOWN_DEAD' date='Nov 11 2006, 11:16 PM' post='1423825']
Sounds like "argument from authority". Are you trying to say that it would be impossible for you to be mistaken? Talk about hubris. If this were true, then why isn't everyone in agreement over the "alien question"? Why is it that the available evidence doesn't convince everyone?


Seems they do not understand the nature of the data evidence as myself. Apparently, former UFO debunker, J. Allen Hynek, who was tapped as an investigator for Project Blue Book, was convinced enough during the course of his investigations  to where he was no longer a skeptic.

I almost forgot to add, that J. Allen Hynek wasn't the only investigator whose mind was convinced that UFOs represented a real phenomenon, other scientist who have investigated the UFO enigma were also convinced that some UFOs are in fact, ET flying vehicles.

Edited by skyeagle409, 11 November 2006 - 11:40 PM.

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#261    Chase Ross

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 11:45 PM

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I think some species of alien have been with us since the beginning of our existence on this planet.
I agree with that. They are more intellegent than us because they can build Spaceships that can travel many Lightyears in a Matter of probably seconds or minutes, and can reach us, but that I believe. I think that I saw a picture in an ancient tomb, and it had a creature on it that looked similar to an Alien. Many people don't think that there is other life, but yet there is much proof that there is. I think that the Government should conduct a study on this and actually put some Money towards an Investigation, I mean I know if the Government told Humans that Aliens we're real they would probably either freak, not believe, or not care until pictures and/or videos are released.



#262    skyeagle409

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 11:46 PM

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name='badeskov' date='Nov 11 2006, 07:41 PM' post='1423647']
Sky,

Thanks for your thorough answer, but I am hard pressed for time today but simply had to address this one. I said:
And you replied.
I hate to be pedantic about this, but 20,000 miles has nothing to do with deep space. Outer space is normally considered to be what lies beyond the atmosphere of the Earth, whereas deep space is beyond the gravity of the Earth and beyond lunar orbit. So deep space has nothing to do with what is flitting around 20,000 miles out, but rather 200,000 miles out and here the military has to give up and let the civilians do the job. The military (US or others) have no means to probe this part of space sensibly and relies on the civilian programs, which in turn is mostly NOT looking for ET.


Since we do have the capability to detect an object the size of a basketball 20,000 miles from Earth, we can also detect an object the size of the mothership of the size as described  during the JAL/UFO encounter over Alaska in 1986,  many times much further.



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#263    Isis2200

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 12:56 AM

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I agree with that. They are more intellegent than us because they can build Spaceships that can travel many Lightyears in a Matter of probably seconds or minutes, and can reach us, but that I believe. I think that I saw a picture in an ancient tomb, and it had a creature on it that looked similar to an Alien. Many people don't think that there is other life, but yet there is much proof that there is. I think that the Government should conduct a study on this and actually put some Money towards an Investigation, I mean I know if the Government told Humans that Aliens we're real they would probably either freak, not believe, or not care until pictures and/or videos are released.


Hi Chase :-)

Interesting post!  I heard a researcher say a while back on a radio show that he thinks the reason why the government won't tell its citizens is because they're afraid of mass panic, and they want to maintain the status quo as long as they can before all hell breaks loose.  They think "What if we tell them and they get depressed, and won't work, and won't pay taxes? What would that do to our neat little society?"  Lol

Personally, I think a lot of people already figure they're here, and just as with any other news whether good or bad, they keep on working, and functioning.

http://ashiana.conforums.com/index.cgi

~ Isis



#264    Chase Ross

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 01:24 AM

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Hi Chase :-)

Interesting post!  I heard a researcher say a while back on a radio show that he thinks the reason why the government won't tell its citizens is because they're afraid of mass panic, and they want to maintain the status quo as long as they can before all hell breaks loose.  They think "What if we tell them and they get depressed, and won't work, and won't pay taxes? What would that do to our neat little society?"  Lol

Personally, I think a lot of people already figure they're here, and just as with any other news whether good or bad, they keep on working, and functioning.

http://ashiana.conforums.com/index.cgi

~ Isis
True, very true, but some people also think that anyone who actually believes that there is other life is crazy or wrong. Some people think that we're the only ones in this Universe. I don't think that at all, and I wonder why they think that we are so lucky to have our own Planet, and why they don't think that far out, possibly Millions of Lightyears away that there is life. We don't have the Technology yet to see that far out, but we will probably reach that point if Global Warming doesn't happen. original.gif



#265    Isis2200

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 01:41 AM

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True, very true, but some people also think that anyone who actually believes that there is other life is crazy or wrong. Some people think that we're the only ones in this Universe. I don't think that at all, and I wonder why they think that we are so lucky to have our own Planet, and why they don't think that far out, possibly Millions of Lightyears away that there is life. We don't have the Technology yet to see that far out, but we will probably reach that point if Global Warming doesn't happen. original.gif


Hi Chase:

"but some people also think that anyone who actually believes that there is other life is crazy or wrong."

I know, and I think that's wrong.  I wasn't going to tell anybody but I'll tell you.  I am a new member of this forum and I have noticed during these past weeks that we have an incredible amount of ignorant people on here.  Wherever I have posted, I've been attacked and watched other people being attacked in a viscious way.   I've heard other members comment, "Gee, I can't believe this behavior is tolerated."  

They just come onto the forum and immediately say things like "You're wrong", that person is "Wacko", and other mean things instead of reply in a mature way by saying "I don't agree."  Many times they, as you mentioned, people come into the forum and accuse someone(in so many words) of being crazy or wrong without themselves having proof to back up their statements.  They don't quote passages from books, or give links which support their side of the story, and that's just plain wrong.

So I know what you mean, Chase.  You're more mature than a lot of people I've met in this forum.  It's a darn shame people can't communicate in a mature manner.  I won't leave permanently because of people like you. :-)

Have a good evening.

~ Isis



#266    Chase Ross

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 01:44 AM

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So I know what you mean, Chase.  You're more mature than a lot of people I've met in this forum.  It's a darn shame people can't communicate in a mature manner.  I won't leave permanently because of people like you. :-)

Have a good evening.

~ Isis
Thanks for the compliment, and You have a great evening as well.



#267    cnufos4u

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 02:01 AM

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Lets set aside the question of whether advanced galactic societies would have the slightest interest in our wars, WMD, our pollution problems, our reproductive systems or our cows butts.

The real question is, how would they know about us at all?

There is only one way that they can tell from interstellar distance that intelligent creatures inhabit this planet....RADIO. Our radio signals travel at the speed of light, and this means that even with infinitely fast spacecraft, the aliens cant be much farther off than 15 light-years to have reached our lovely planet by 1947,(Rosswell). The number of star systems within 15 light-years is about three dozen. There would have to be 10 billion technically sophisticated societies in the Galaxy to have a reasonable chance of finding one camped out among the nearest three dozen stars. Thats optimism of a high level indeed.

What about warp drive? Lightspeed? Maybe the aliens can create wormholes and get here in essentially no time?

It doesnt matter. Ill worry about how they got here once Im convinced that theyve really made the scene.

To get here they need to know were we are.

Approximately half the U.S. population suspects that extraterrestrials have come to our planet. This is such a controversial (and emotional) topic that its mere mention guarantees a storm of Web chat and high-voltage PMs. In the end, of course, the matter of alien visitation will be decided by the evidence, not by the intensity of opinion.

While I certainly expect that the Galaxy is home to many advanced societies, the quality of the evidence has so far failed to convince me that any of them have emissaries on our planet.


I thought radio waves move at the speed of sound?

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#268    rapid7

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 03:52 AM


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I thought radio waves move at the speed of sound?


Nah.. speed of light..but the sound coming from your speakers travels at the speed of sound. thumbsup.gif

http://www.colorado.edu/physics/2000/waves...ghtspeed-1.html

Edited by rapid7, 12 November 2006 - 03:53 AM.

On the wall,
There's a red light.

#269    Annointer

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 04:35 AM

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I thought radio waves move at the speed of sound?

rofl.gif Communication would of been hell for the Apollo missions.  rofl.gif The moon mission would be over before the astronauts got a response from Houston.


#270    skyeagle409

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 05:15 AM

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name='the_UNKNOWN_DEAD' date='Nov 11 2006, 11:16 PM' post='1423825']
I happen to have an answer to that last question. The available evidence is simply not convincing. I would love for their to be actual alien visitors, but at the same time, I will not be "fooled" by evidence that simply cannot stand up under critical inquiry.

It's just the way I am...


I can understand to a certain extent so here is some data that I have posted before and I am doing so in case you've missed it. The following data was taken from the radar of an F-16 and supplied by the Belgian Air Force. The data specifically depicts only an artificial flyng object that reacts intelligently to each of the F-16's radar locks and I must re-emphasize that the data is that of an artificial flying object only and not the result of any natural phenomena nor conventional aircraft as the maneuvers indicated on the chart would totally destroy any aircraft and kill the crew.

Skeptics say there is no convincing evidence but they tend to ignore the data evidence that is not only convincing to those who are familiar with what the data evidence depicts, but that the data evidence is a matter-of-fact evidence in its depiction of an artificial enitity that is an intelligently controlled aerial vehicle.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ <^>
Seconds after    Heading                    Speed    Altitude
   lock-on       (degrees)                  (knots)    (feet)

      00            200                       150       7000
      01            200                       150       7000
      02            200                       150       7000
      03            200                       150       7000
      04      sharp 200          acceleration 150       6000
      05       turn 270             = 22 g    560       6000
      06            270                       560       6000
      07            270                       570       6000
      08            270                       560       7000
      09            270                       550       7000
      10            210                       560       9000
      11            210                       570      10000
      12            210                       560      11000
      13            210                       570      10000
      14            270                       770       7000
      15            270                       770       6000
      16            270                       780       6000
      17            270                       790       5000
      18            290                      1010       4000
      19            290                      1000       3000
      20            290                       990       2000
      21            290                       990       1000
      22            300                       990       0000
      22.5          300                       980       0000  Break lock

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <^>

So now, we can once again, speculate as to why ET is here.



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