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How did they find us.!?


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#466    Unlimited

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 03:33 PM

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one of the things that separates Earth from the other planets, is it has loads of water (oxygen being one of the other standouts), could ET's detect the water somehow? with spectrographic analysis perhaps?, just wondering...


good point pax...when your scouting planets; waters the first thing you look for to determine if their is life or not...the human body is mostly water..

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#467    Hazzard

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 03:43 PM

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good point pax...when your scouting planets; waters the first thing you look for to determine if their is life or not...the human body is mostly water..


Like I said on the previous page, limited, everyone els, sorry for the re-run.

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An easier task would be to spectroscopically sample the light reflected from our atmosphere, and learn that it has large quantities of oxygen and methane, tell-tale markers of biology.


Edited by hazzard, 17 November 2006 - 03:45 PM.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#468    Pax Unum

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 03:46 PM

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Actually, this is a very good speculation in my opinion.

thanks, but I just had a thought. wouldn't it be the oxygen that set's off ET 'LIFE" alerts? H2O is fairly common in asteroids and the supposed Oort cloud is ice, right? and isn't Callisto ice maybe over liquid water? Oxygen is produced by plants during photosynthesis, wouldn't that guarantee theres some kind life if it's found?...


#469    Pax Unum

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 03:48 PM

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Like I said on the previous page, limited, everyone els, sorry for the re-run.

sorry, I missed that... great point though!!


#470    Pax Unum

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 03:57 PM

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H2O, maybe? An easier task would be to spectroscopically sample the light reflected from our atmosphere, and learn that it has large quantities of oxygen and methane, tell-tale markers of biology.

this is the best idea yet put forward, as a way ET might find 'living' worlds... IMO


#471    Lilly

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 07:46 PM

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thanks, but I just had a thought. wouldn't it be the oxygen that set's off ET 'LIFE" alerts? H2O is fairly common in asteroids and the supposed Oort cloud is ice, right? and isn't Callisto ice maybe over liquid water? Oxygen is produced by plants during photosynthesis, wouldn't that guarantee theres some kind life if it's found?...


Absolutely, not just the presence of water, but the oxygen and methane gases. Liquid water would be a big clue as well. I suspect that if someone intelligent enough, looks long enough, environments favorable to life will be found.

"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~

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#472    badeskov

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 09:12 PM

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Absolutely, not just the presence of water, but the oxygen and methane gases. Liquid water would be a big clue as well. I suspect that if someone intelligent enough, looks long enough, environments favorable to life will be found.


I completely agree with you guys. Once you have the technology to actually probe distant planets spectroscopically, this is in my point of view the best best for us (and ET) to determine whether a planet can hold life and if it is indeed is like to do so (methane). That said, we can probably not gauge whether said life is intelligent or on the microbe stage. Moreover, the planet could be thousands of light years away (yeah, I am assuming that we or ET have developed very advanced technology for this), but that also means that we are measuring what happened thousands of years ago!

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#473    badeskov

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 08:42 AM

Actually, some other thought has come up. I am no biologist and my knowledge hereof is at best mediocre, so please excuse my ignorance. But why does life have to be oxygen based?

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Badeskov


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#474    Hazzard

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 09:33 AM

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Actually, some other thought has come up. I am no biologist and my knowledge hereof is at best mediocre, so please excuse my ignorance. But why does life have to be oxygen based?

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Badeskov


It doesnt. The first life on Earth was anaerobic bacteria - bacteria that could live without oxygen. These bacteria pumped large amounts of methane into our planets atmosphere, changing it in detectable ways.

If similar bacteria exist on another planet, future missions like TPF and Darwin could detect their "fingerprint" in the atmosphere.

Edited by hazzard, 18 November 2006 - 09:41 AM.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#475    badeskov

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 09:54 AM

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It doesnt. The first life on Earth was anaerobic bacteria - bacteria that could live without oxygen. These bacteria pumped large amounts of methane into our planets atmosphere, changing it in detectable ways.

If similar bacteria exist on another planet, future missions like TPF and Darwin could detect their "fingerprint" in the atmosphere.


Oh, ok. Pardon my ignorance, but will methane always be the telltale of life?

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#476    Hazzard

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 01:04 PM

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Oh, ok. Pardon my ignorance, but will methane always be the telltale of life?



The intriguing question that, I think,  is:  Could we detect the telltale signs of alien technologies on distant worlds?

As the general consensus builds among scientist that human activity has altered Earths atmosphere by inputting carbon dioxide as well as gases like Freon, could we identify the spectral fingerprints of those byproducts on other worlds?

Im sorry to say the first signs of E.T. probably wont be a radio or TV broadcasts, instead, it could be oxygen from algae detected in the planets atmosphere.

But then again, you never know, right. I do believe in the next few decades we will know whether or not our little blue world is all alone in the Universe, or if there are neighbors out there waiting to meet us.

Edited by hazzard, 18 November 2006 - 01:05 PM.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#477    Lilly

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 01:14 PM

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Oh, ok. Pardon my ignorance, but will methane always be the telltale of life?



No, methane can be released through abiotic processes such as volcanism. It can also be a marker for anaerobic digestion (something organic). I think that it's part of a group of clues; liquid water, free oxygen, methane gas, proper temperature etc. that tells us life could be present.

"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~

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#478    Hazzard

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 02:04 PM

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No, methane can be released through abiotic processes such as volcanism. It can also be a marker for anaerobic digestion (something organic). I think that it's part of a group of clues; liquid water, free oxygen, methane gas, proper temperature etc. that tells us life could be present.


I agree. About two billion years ago these first photosynthetic organisms shifted the atmospheres balance permanently-they produced oxygen, a highly reactive gas that cleared out much of the methane and carbon dioxide, while also suffocating the anaerobic, methane-producing bacteria. In doing so, the planets atmosphere gained its first free oxygen.

Although Earth-orbiting satellites and balloon experiments can measure these changes here at home, detecting similar effects on a distant world are beyond even the capabilities of upcoming programs like Terrestrial Planet Finder and Darwin. It will take gigantic flotillas of future space-based infrared telescopes to be able to accomplish those measurements.


I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#479    Hazzard

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 03:59 PM

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Oort cloud is ice, right? and isn't  


Yes, its a reservoir of icy comets.  

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Callisto ice maybe over liquid water?


Move Over Europa: An Ocean on Jupiter's Callisto?
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sola...ter_010726.html

Alien fish and chips, anyone?




I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#480    Unlimited

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 04:19 PM

This picture was taken at 8am this morning from an observatory cam...

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