Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Cloning


  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

Poll: Is cloning wrong? (44 member(s) have cast votes)

Is cloning wrong?

  1. Yes (23 votes [52.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.27%

  2. (8 votes [18.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.18%

  3. No (13 votes [29.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.55%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#31    Nancy

Nancy

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,106 posts
  • Joined:07 Mar 2001
  • Location:South Florida

Posted 20 December 2003 - 04:12 AM

Cloning Moe is an excellent idea! The world needs more Moe and his antics and his 'take' on life and family. When do we start?   wub.gif

Cloning for other than medical advancement, to me is just plain wrong. Yet, there is always that fine line where someone will step over, never to return. That to me, is frightening.

dying is easy ... tis the living that's hard...

#32    soulfire78

soulfire78

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 462 posts
  • Joined:12 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Pacific Northwest

  • It's not what happens to you in life that matters, it's what you do about it that counts...

Posted 20 December 2003 - 07:22 AM

QUOTE
Now, is there anything wrong with a cloned meat?? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Meat from a cloned cattle has exactly the same structure as the meat from its original organism



Actually, their is quite a bit of research going on in this area.  Apparently, the clone is "born" with cells that are already the "age" of the original creature.  This is why Dolly the cloned sheep suffered many bouts of age related illness, and died prematurely.  

We all have a repetetive gene sequence at the terminal ends of our DNA called telomeres.  Every time our cells divide, we lose some genetic information from the ends, but as long as we have telomeres, we only lose this repetetive "junk" DNA.  They are like the caps on the ends of shoestrings that keep the strings from fraying.

So, as we age, we lose telomeres.  Eventually, enough is lost, and signs of aging start to appear-sunspots, bone density loss, wrinkles, etc...We lose the ablilty to repair our cells and to create new functional ones.

( There is a point-just hold on )

So the original and the clone will differ in the way they age, and possibly in the value of their meat as a source of nutrition.  Since the ability to repair their own tissues is lost with age, more toxins and free radicals will build up in the bodies of the clone at an earlier "age".  By eating them, we would be ingesting possibly "tainted" meat.  

*Jen just did a HUGE term paper on this subject-would love to bore someones' ears off about it  tongue.gif *

She walks in beauty, like the night
Of cloudless climes and starry skies;
And all that 's best of dark and bright
Meet in her aspect and her eyes:
Thus mellow'd to that tender light
Which heaven to gaudy day denies.
One shade the more, one ray the less,
Had half impair'd the nameless grace
Which waves in every raven tress,
Or softly lightens o'er her face;
Where thoughts serenely sweet express
How pure, how dear their dwelling-place.

And on that cheek, and o'er that brow,
So soft, so calm, yet eloquent,
The smiles that win, the tints that glow,
But tell of days in goodness spent,
A mind at peace with all below,
A heart whose love is innocent!

Lord Byron

#33    wunarmdscissor

wunarmdscissor

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,761 posts
  • Joined:07 Nov 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunny Glasgow

  • come on the hoops

Posted 20 December 2003 - 11:31 AM

If cloning is used in the proper way then its a good idea. Though history has shown throughout that when humans gain a powerful technology over another group it is more often than not used to their advantage.
Have we learned nothing from Star Trek.
grin2.gif lol

Stand up for the Champions
'MON the tic an tiocfaidh ar-la


saorsa na h-alba

#34    connecian

connecian

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 232 posts
  • Joined:18 Jul 2003

  • When you find true love, keep it close and treasure it.

Posted 20 December 2003 - 05:32 PM

I have to agree with Arnibas.. cloning is morally wrong.  Why do humans always want to play God ( or any other higher being that you believe in)? It takes away from the value of human life, which is precious.  Why demming society with if you can not take care of what you have.. we can get a new one for you? To me it also breaks the grounds of what should be. Man was not made to duplicate himself.

As for science and religion..there are many scientist that are religious and many that are not. Religion and science can mix.  

I will give you my heart
but please be careful
do not break it
for it is fragile

#35    PsychicPenguin

PsychicPenguin

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,428 posts
  • Joined:25 Nov 2003
  • Location:Atlantis

Posted 20 December 2003 - 10:02 PM

Thanks for the info soulfire, I'll consider that whenever I buy the cloned meat from supermarket. thumbsup.gif

connecian,
What about people who don't believe in any higher beings at all? I also think that relligion should not be mixed with science. How can a scientists make an honest report if he has "God created everything" as his main assumption? The work of such scientists are now lying arround in the internet, some of them even make best seller books, but filled with loads of lies and adjusted datas. I'll be really sad if I am God.


#36    kwaherutan

kwaherutan

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Joined:08 Dec 2003

Posted 21 December 2003 - 05:40 PM

Cloning = technological growth = knowledge enabled mass destruction

It’s hard to deny the inevitable:  experts expect exponential technological growth to threaten the world, as we know it, in future years.  Scientists are the tools of  greed and competition.  Every scientific ‘break through’ leads us one step closer to the destruction of the diverse and delicate balance of nature.  The mass extinction taking place right now is just the beginning.  Please, put down your murderous pipettes, turn off your droning machines, and go outside and take a deep breath and see the world you are jeopardizing.  While, we may owe our very existence to technological innovation, it is time we recognize the costs associated with our existence and attempt to change the road we’re traveling.  To do this, we must salvage our spirituality from the clutches of materialism and wage a war against our natural tendencies.    wink2.gif



#37    moe eubleck

moe eubleck

    No need to thank us

  • Member
  • 7,001 posts
  • Joined:30 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sac Town CA

  • may the horse of Caligula drop one in your senate building.

Posted 21 December 2003 - 09:25 PM

QUOTE
Every scientific ‘break through’ leads us one step closer to the destruction of the diverse and delicate balance of nature


......so then why are you using a scientifc 'break through'  ,aka internet, to preach about the very thing you are against?
  
QUOTE
is time we recognize the costs associated with our existence and attempt to change the road we’re traveling.

    I couldnt agree more. But besides talking about the horrors of it all, what have you done for the planet lately?
  You drive a car. You use computers. You watch television. You use products made from cut down trees, ei.. paper, pencils, shelves, dressers. You flush your waste down the toilet, you use soap, trashcans, motor oil.
     You have a solution?  Well, Im listening.

Posted Image
Moe's Poetry Corner
Moe's Big Adventure
" Behavior is a function of its consequences, invoked by the antecedant conditions"

#38    Loque

Loque

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Joined:06 Dec 2003

Posted 21 December 2003 - 09:54 PM

it depends on who uses it and what for,say, is cloning a scientist who is on the brink of death, but also the brink of curing a cancer wrong?


Posted Image

#39    moe eubleck

moe eubleck

    No need to thank us

  • Member
  • 7,001 posts
  • Joined:30 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sac Town CA

  • may the horse of Caligula drop one in your senate building.

Posted 21 December 2003 - 10:19 PM

I agree loque. wink2.gif
  

I also tend to think that those who are opposed to it may change thier minds when faced with a terminal illness only cureable thru said means.

Posted Image
Moe's Poetry Corner
Moe's Big Adventure
" Behavior is a function of its consequences, invoked by the antecedant conditions"

#40    Phenomenon

Phenomenon

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 706 posts
  • Joined:24 Aug 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Yorkshire

Posted 22 December 2003 - 12:17 PM

The post that mentions dolly suffering from age related ilness is a little inaccurate.our cells die and new ones regenerate on an incredible scale.The bones we are born with are not the bones we die with.The average human bones are completely replaced on a 20 year cycle, such is the rate of cell regeneration.The number of cells required to clone an embryo are minimal.The problem with dolly wasn't the age of the cells that she inherited, more it was the damage that occured during the cloning process.

As for clonong itself, I strongly believe that it is wrong.There are no acceptable scenarios and it should never be allowed.As for medical advancements, do you really believe that this is the main thread of interest for the scientists? If only.Our scientists and doctors simply take it too far.Nature has evolved and will continue to do so as long as we don't try to play mother nature in our laboratories.i have strong feelings for those who have the need for medical help for a dying youngster or partner, but cloning isn't the way to go.


#41    Loque

Loque

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Joined:06 Dec 2003

Posted 22 December 2003 - 04:04 PM

and what we have in the world asn't altered our evolution, i'm sorry but look at people who drive a lot of the time, like my stepdad, he as two driving jobs and per week racks up on average 3000miles, he as back problems and walking problems because his body is used to or should i say as evolved and grown to suite his car, aswell as many of the other stuff around junk food, computers...etc this isn't what nature bargained for we have already and will constantly change our evolution with each invention or product that as been brought out. Look at the increase in genetic disorders that have started to pop up all over the place. furthor more we are evolving to suit a mechanised future, why do you think peole who soly rely on technology, like Computer people like my self are normally not as buft as we should be naturally, its because our bodies no longer need to really fully develop that particular part of our bodies, as we have things to dop that for us, a good example of this is the arm muscles, a hundred or so years ago people didn't really have tools that helped like a modern day crain will, back then it would've taken a dozen or so people and the minor help of a winch to lift an wooden beam, now it take one person operating a lever in an crane.

Posted Image

#42    Phenomenon

Phenomenon

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 706 posts
  • Joined:24 Aug 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Yorkshire

Posted 22 December 2003 - 04:51 PM

Lol, slight contradiction there I think.His back has evolved, yet he has back problems?? that's not evolution, evolution and changes in the dynamic make-up of people is something that takes thousands of years.I never mentioned that things in our world have altered evolution, i mentioned cloning.




#43    kwaherutan

kwaherutan

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Joined:08 Dec 2003

Posted 22 December 2003 - 06:39 PM

Logue, your use of ‘evolve’ is different from the biological use, but your main point is still valid.  Your step-dad will pass down the same genes regardless of what he does for a living (unless, perhaps, he’s working with radioactive materials).  Technology alters evolution because people are passing down their genes, generally, regardless of physical and mental capacities.  In a sense, we are de-evolving.

QUOTE
it depends on who's using it and what for...


The problem is that you cannot control who uses ‘it’ unless we live in a world where every individual is under constant surveillance and this is, indeed, the direction we’re heading.  As computer capacity increases, it will no longer be infeasible to track and analyze the actions of every individual.

My ideas for saving the world (sorry if off topic):
1)  Come to grips with our own hypocritical nature.  
2)  Develop a world-wide population ban:  1% of randomly selected couples are allowed to reproduce.
3)  View the use and acquisition of money as evil.
4)  Remove society’s shackles by attaining self-sufficiency: home vegetable garden, barter, simple living (a difficult task given government control).
5)  Sometimes you must fight evil with evil.

Denying the advancement of cloning, and technology in general, may be unrealistic, but, by attaining a higher moral status and reducing population pressures, we may be able to limit the destructive aspects of our innovations.



#44    bathory

bathory

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,302 posts
  • Joined:20 Nov 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:00 AM

QUOTE
My ideas for saving the world (sorry if off topic):
1) Come to grips with our own hypocritical nature.
2) Develop a world-wide population ban: 1% of randomly selected couples are allowed to reproduce.
3) View the use and acquisition of money as evil.
4) Remove society’s shackles by attaining self-sufficiency: home vegetable garden, barter, simple living (a difficult task given government control).
5) Sometimes you must fight evil with evil


Stalin would be proud:)


#45    Phenomenon

Phenomenon

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 706 posts
  • Joined:24 Aug 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Yorkshire

Posted 23 December 2003 - 10:45 AM

After I reply to these "ideas" I think perhaps I should help steer this topic back on track.

I have to agree with bathory on this one...Stalin would be proud.Although I commend you on your honesty in posting these views on what you believe would improve society, I strongly disagree.

QUOTE
Denying the advancement of cloning, and technology in general, may be unrealistic, but, by attaining a higher moral status and reducing population pressures, we may be able to limit the destructive aspects of our innovations.


Your views on population are incredible, 1%? Man was not created with the intention that someone should control its reproduction in such a way.How would it work? A few Asians, some Europeans and a couple of Africans for good measure?

Population congestion as you put it has always been a problem.The only difference as time has gone by is that we are now forced to inhabit corners of the globe never before lived in.Of all the measures I have seen mentioned in your post and others this is by far the most severe and ridiculous.The problems that arise from over populated areas are disease, famine and crime.Do you think this is a new thing to the world? Disease is something we have a certain control over, to the point that we now live, on average, 30 years longer than would have been the case 100 years ago.Yes we have diseases now that spread and kill at an incredible rate, but these diseases have been with us since the beginning of time...the only difference is we have given them a nice Latin name.

The "destructive aspects" as you call them I presume include weapons.War kills far fewer people than ever.Such is the advancement of technology.I may not agree with many og the wars that have taken place over the last 30 years, but I would rather have been placed in one of those situations than one from 60 years ago.

What I find most amazing is the attitude these posts show towards technological developement.Im guessing at this but you must be sat there in your comfortable chair at your wooden desk using a fairly modern piece of "technological Development" to make these posts.

Don't mix evolution with development.Man has evolved over millions of years.Our science won't destroy or alter evolution....it will merely change the way we use it, and there is a big difference.To think that we can change evolution with the inventions we create is silly.I think a couple of you guys should open your eyes and learn what evolution really means. thumbsup.gif  





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users