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OK ..LAY IT ON THE LINE


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#1    bigsteff

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 01:46 AM

RIGHT

PUT YOUR POINTS HERE.AND PUT YOUR POINTS HERE TO SHOOT THE OTHER POINTS OUT OF THE WATER...


FOR EXAMPLE

GOD IS REAL..BECAUSE MILLIONS BELIEVE IN HIM

AGAINST

BUT WHO HAS SEEN HIM

BUT MILLIONS BELEIVE IN HIM

AGAINST

BUT MILLIONS BELIEVE IN ALIENS

THIS SUBJECT IS A BIT LIKE ALIENS..I.E. GIVE ME PROVE...AN ALIENS HEAD ON A SILVER PLATTER

WELL GIVE ME PROVE THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD ohmy.gif  


#2    Magikman

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 07:35 AM

You can't equate someone's spiritual faith and beliefs with the mundane, highly speculative opinions and thoughts of those who argue for the 'reality' of aliens, there's just no comparison. The subject itself is volatile enough without belittling it by suggesting that there are similarities in the reasoning process. Until the time comes when beliefs in aliens attains 'spiritual' status, there really wouldn't be a point in pursuing this discussion. By the way, "God" is real to hundreds of millions of people, depending on which religion you subscribe to, makes the million or so who believe in aliens seem rather paltry, doesn't it?

Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense. ~ Carl Sagan

"...man has an irrepressible tendency to read meaning into the buzzing confusion of sights and sounds impinging on his senses; and where no agreed meaning can be found, he will provide it out of his own imagination." ~ Arthur Koestler

#3    bigsteff

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 12:04 PM

so did you just prove god is real...or did i miss something lol laugh.gif  


#4    moe eubleck

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 06:10 PM

  He was just saying that more people believe in god than UFOs. But UFos are a religion to some people. Rememer those   suicides? I found an intersting link  about UFO sprituality as well. So yes it does exist,  it just doesnt have as big a fan club as the bible.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/ufo/ufo1.html
  

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#5    Seraphina

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 07:00 PM

Well, if aliens aren't good enough for you...

Millions of people once believed in Thor, Zues, and thousands of other gods that were reveared for centuries. The existance of these beings was a very fundamental part of the cultures at a time, and was just as 'spiritual' (if not more) than the believe in our modern god.

If anything, given that the cultures who believed in these gods lacked the scientific knowledge to explain the world around them (why it rained...what caused thunder...etc), then they had a great deal more reason to believe in gods than we do.

In this day and age, if I were to say I worshipped Thor, I'd probably be taken as a lunatic...however, if I said I worshipped god, then I'd just be another sheep in the flock tongue.gif

Why are we able to so happily dismiss the beliefs of gods that came before, while saying ours is the true, given that god has no more evidence behind his existance than any of the gods from ancient cultures?

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#6    TheLight

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 08:17 PM

I tend to agree with Seraphina and the answers before.

God is religious belief that somehow escape logical thinking.
Aliens is a logical belief that somehow escape religious faith (except some particular cases).

And basically God has been a tool to explain what knowledge couldn't explain at times. It's been used as a tool also to control the people in order to prevent to question the authority of the ones in power (remember the kings were said to have been made kings by God). God's name has been used for holy crusades in the past too. Basically God has always been a good tool for propaganda, because when you think of it there's no place in the bible refering to pre-emptive strike wink2.gif

When you think is the best example of a salesguy pitch. They sold something to the people that they never saw, was never proven to exist and people are still buying it 2000 years later... Quite amazing isn't it ?

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#7    moe eubleck

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 11:34 PM

QUOTE (TheLight @ Nov 9 2003, 07:17 PM)

God is religious belief that somehow escape logical thinking.
Aliens is a logical belief that somehow escape religious faith

  very cool point.  thumbsup.gif
   They are also very simliar in that they are both still being used to explain the unknown. Its much easier to say "Oh gee that was an alien" or "its Gods will" then to actually get the bottom of things.
   People who believe in God , think God is very logical. Most of them were raised this way. If you were told, for instance, that the sky is green your whole life, then that would be your reality.
    Those who believe in Aliens were likely raised with a scientific approach to life.  The way we are nurtured has an undeniable affect on our perception. Its not fair to say that god is more logical than UFOS. We must take the individual into consideration.  
  


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#8    FreyKade

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 11:39 PM

i agree with you all on this thread.... anyways, why can we not have  God AND aliens.....what if "angels" are actually aliens?

as in God created aliens aswell as man


as for jesus being the son of God...there is no proof....just down to what you believe

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#9    any_fit_monkey

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 02:08 AM

If I was ever forced to bet my house on which is more likely to be true (im my opinion) it sure as hell (exuse the punt) would`nt be the 1 that is all based on so much impossiblity and fantasy ,and i`m not talkin bout alians.

Lets face it,God,not only did he create himself ,he then threw a few planets together in less than a week,and thats just the begining of such a far fetched, unbelivable(to a non beliver),impossible ,most edited, magical ,most confusing and most missunderstood ,upsetting,controversial,unexplained and totally based around no logic what so ever,yet most powerful ,influenced and dangerous myth about something that even after all this time does`nt have an ounce of solid evidence to support any part of such a crazy idea.

  What is it that i`m missing, how can so many people and over such a long period of time,people who are very intelligent,people who are very ordinary,people who are very dence ,rich people,important people,poor people,sick people,people without a shred of humanity or decency or regards towards any living thing can all say that even today, in such a modern,scientific age, a one that we have been able to design and build machines,vehicles and other gadgets to help us get the answers to the questions that consern the human race,people who dedicate their whole life probing for evidence about the unknown,and even though none has been found to back any of the many varied versions of such a bizare theory,with their hand on heart(or weapon for those without hearts) and say without any shame or embarrassment that they belive that such a theory is not only possible but is also the truth.  w00t.gif
  
So lets say for arguments sake that he/she did exist and that the Bible contained a pretty accurate and modest account of his going on`s.I would imagine that he would have needed to prove his powers very powerfully and convincenly to be able to generate so much respect,fear,love and devotion from the joe public to the extent where people will sacrifice themselves and others because they belived that it was what God wanted from them which sounds simular to the way sadam and hitler etc. used to there evil advantage,yet the only way they could respect from anyone was to terrify them so i`d guess you would gain alot of respect once you start destroying parts of the world with no huge armys,infact didnt even need to expose himself in the process.and since he is watching over all of us,all the time it would be a bit uncomfortable knowing at any time you could be turned into stone or salt,or worse.So I dont think I would find it to be a very good thing to have someone like that around.
  

But is he a lot more chilled and laid back these days and has realised that drowning everyone in a flood doesnt get the same laughs as it used to,so has decided to put his miricles into good use,instead now saving us from such evil undeserved acts of violance,but if thats what he`s doing,where are these miricles,have I been watching the wrong news channels,is the evil in the world today not that bad and should`nt bother us when the odd defencless child gets rapped,abused,torcherd and murdered,is the odd bomb thats thrown or airoplane thats used to create mass murder and suffering, something we make to much fuss over,its only God having a small relaps of his earlier days.Lets face it,it could be worse,he could destroy the world tomorrow if he fancied it.after all,we`re
all his creation and its only fair he has the last word.


  And as for do aliens really exist...Yes coz i remember years ago on the news or something i saw a real one that got left behing here by accident when his family were in a hurry to get home, he was a funny ,kind of cute little dude who picked up on our language in no time,he seemed to have a nasty infection on his middle finger, but otherwise full bill of health, for a while anyway....cant remember his full name , but his friends just called him E.T ...i think they were his initials or something.  whistling2.gif

Of course aliens exist,,,even without all the sightings and rumours most of which (unlike the ones about Christ) are very belivable,It would be a bit foolish of us to think that we are the only living creatures in the whole of the universe.
    Yikes !!! have I just typed all that.....thats the last time im getting involved.

edited to make it a little easier to read...

Edited by Celticwitch, 10 November 2003 - 02:44 AM.


#10    Nancy

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 02:22 AM

In honor of Aslan...........

Don't you ever take a breath? That was the most confusing, difficult post to get through. In fact? I'm not sure I did  whistling2.gif  w00t.gif  

dying is easy ... tis the living that's hard...

#11    klamath

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 04:15 AM

      Wow 'Any Fit' there were a lot of interesting points you brought up.
There is nothing that tells us there is definite proof of God or Alien. It's just what you, yourself have to choose to see and believe.
     In Turkey un-top of one of the highest mountains, there is a big boat that sometimes shows due to the wind storms in the area. - It is said to possibly be the Ark. Due to all the terrorists in that area it is very hard to get to the mountain but satellite shows it being there. There are people who have been through horrible times and at their darkest moment, a miracle has happened. You can't tell someone who has gone through this that it doesn't exists.
Of course we have all heard of Roswell, and a good majority thinks it was covered up. Some of us have had our own experiences. You can't tell someone who has seen it that it doesn't exists.
     On a different note I had a friend that studied the bible all throughout his childhood/teenager years and this is what he feels:
     When God created Adam and Eve, some of his Angels were disgusted because they also wanted to be human. He in-turn changed them to Aliens, to be there for us incase God wasn't. When Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit he took out half of a gland out of the back of Adam and Eve's head so that they could no longer talk to God telepathically. (For the life of me, I can't remember the name of the gland.) My friend feels that God now feels bad about this due to the way morally the world has become. The Aliens are doing his work and creating a human that has the whole gland.
     So there are some that feel that one or the other or even both exists and are working with each other.
     Another friend of mine had a lot of bad stuff happen to her when she was young. She believes that this was done for a reason. She thought the same as other's have posted on "How can there be a God that would let something this terrible happen to an innocent child." Now since she has grown up she understands a little better why these things happen and has become a better person because of it. Is it right? NO way in hell. Do you think she would know how to sympathize with others without being through hard times if she hadn't gone through this? Who knows. But she thinks that she would of probably been a cut-throat kind of person. You never know what someone else is going through without walking in their shoes.
-Klamath  wink2.gif



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but by the moments that take our breath away.

#12    Seraphina

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 02:59 PM

.... huh.gif ....

Dare I ask what bizare evidence your friend found in the bible to give birth to this extremely outlandish theory? tongue.gif  

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#13    any_fit_monkey

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 03:38 PM

At the time that the Bible was writtin did`nt they also claim that the world was flat , so much for that little theory...


#14    Kryso

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 05:50 PM

Firstly, Nancy, I agree with you, after reading Any Fit Monkeyís post, my brain feels like it needs a long relaxing bath, lol! Then just as itís recoveringÖ Iím told that God changed some of his angels into aliens, and that these aliens are now trying to fulfil what God was first not able too!  blink.gif

What it all comes down to is belief. Either you believe in God or you donít. You believe in aliens or you donít. Either subject can be expanded on, but thatís the bare facts. You can gain belief, through different experiences or research. But it still only comes down to belief!

And in your second post Any Fit Monkey, you stated:

ďAt the time that the Bible was written didnít they also claim that the world was flat, so much for that little theory...Ē

Are you saying that the bible claims the world to be flat? Because in the Book of Isaiah, he stated, ďabove the circle of the earth!Ē meaning he knew it was roundÖ But like your other post, I find you points a little vague, no offence, just that itís hard to work out your meaning for the post! And Iíve been to Ephesus in Turkey, this city was around during the time the bible was written, and one of the main statues has a image of one of their gods, with his foot on earth, a round earth!



#15    Nethius

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 07:18 PM

I agree with Seraphina and any_fit_monkey on this one.

I would say Aliens do exist on other planets...  whether or not they are visiting us is another discussion all together...

if i'm correct, it's the Old Testiment that states the world was flat...  which brings me to this question...  why was there a revised version?!?  to correct all the statements that prove it's bogus?  Also, the whole Noah's Ark thing, i don't understand how people can believe that this guy went to every corner of the earth and brought back 2 of every type of animal to this boat?!?  Seems a little crazy to me!





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