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The Hunt for the Skinwalker


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#16    eqgumby

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 06:54 PM

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Well, I have an open mind to the paranormal.  I believe that Science is the destroyer of an open mind.  The more we allow formulas and the scientific method to rule our lives, we'll end up like those people in the latest South Park episode saying things like, "Oh my Science, or Science H Science"  Science people are just as zealous as religious people.
Anyways

The book is about a farm in Utah which a family moved to because they wanted to get away from small town gossip.  They lived there for around 6 months to a year before anything started to happen.  They started experiencing very weird phenomena.  The usual stuff though, all in one place.  Orbs, Bigfoot appearances, strange other wordly animals, UFO's, etc.  The owner got fed up with it after 14 of his prized bulls were mutilated.  NIDS, the National Institute for Discovery Science heard about his plight and offered to buy the farm to study it.  This is book is the story of the owner of Skinwalker Ranch and his experiences before the NIDS team came on the property, and then the 10 years of research described by two of the NIDS team scientists.  Keep in mind that these are Physicists, with PHDs out on this ranch trying to get scientifically proven paranormal evidence.  Of course, it didn't really amount to much except this excellent book.  

I do not think that eye witnesses make this stuff up, or that they are hallucinating.  The end of the book explains their hypothesis of what might be going on at the ranch and it's fascinating.  Like I said, I have an all new idea of what paranormal is.  We can't look at anything in this world as black and white, it's either real or its not.  That is simply not true.  What people see is something they see and people like the owners of this ranch had no reason to make any of it up.  They were traumatized by it.  They lost money from it.  THey had to move twice to get away from it.  

It's a wonderful read, and just utterly fascinating.  There are a lot of websites with snipets of the story, which is how I came upon it.  Just do a google for NIDS or Skinwalker Ranch and you'll find all kinds of info about it.


That's sad. Sounds like you just hate logic and reality. I'll have to look into this series of events though.


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#17    asc.rudeboy

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 08:22 PM

They started experiencing very weird phenomena. The usual stuff though, all in one place. Orbs, Bigfoot appearances, strange other wordly animals, UFO's, etc. The owner got fed up with it after 14 of his prized bulls were mutilated. NIDS, the National Institute for Discovery Science heard about his plight and offered to buy the farm to study it.


how is any of this stuff usual?

any one of these events experienced one way or another are life changing,,,i just have a ahrd time believeing bigfoot and a bunch of ufos and tons of other phenomena happend all at one time in one place,,ok i could possibly concieve a haunted house,maybe a strage animal sighting or even a strange ufo like light you couldnt explain.. but a haunted house with bigfoot and et playing with orbs and carving up cattle all in the same place,im looking for the hidden cameras and wondering what reality tv show im gonna be on.andi hate to say it but the NIDS is a privetly funded organazation so them stretching the truth,or just mkaing things up to sell books is a lot easier to believe then bigfoot,worldy animals,ufos,and orbs.but that dosent mean its not a good read but i dont know if it should shape your outlook on life.


#18    Sweetpumper

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 09:04 PM

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any one of these events experienced one way or another are life changing,,,i just have a ahrd time believeing bigfoot and a bunch of ufos and tons of other phenomena happend all at one time in one place,,ok i could possibly concieve a haunted house,maybe a strage animal sighting or even a strange ufo like light you couldnt explain.. but a haunted house with bigfoot and et playing with orbs and carving up cattle all in the same place,im looking for the hidden cameras and wondering what reality tv show im gonna be on.andi hate to say it but the NIDS is a privetly funded organazation so them stretching the truth,or just mkaing things up to sell books is a lot easier to believe then bigfoot,worldy animals,ufos,and orbs.but that dosent mean its not a good read but i dont know if it should shape your outlook on life.


Uh, all that's explained in the book.

"At it's most basic level, science is supposed to represent the investigation of the unexplained, not the explanation of the uninvestigated." - Hunt for the Skinwalker

"The ultimate irony of the Disclosure movement is that it deeply distrusts officialdom, while simultaneously looking to officialdom for the truth." - Robbie Graham Silver Screen Saucers

#19    rezna

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 10:29 PM

Yay I'm so glad I could show people a good read

Well, IMHO I believe the authors of this book are not lying.  They put their reputation on the line with this book, why would they fabricate all of this to invite their peers to say, "you are a bunch of idiots".  I mean why ask for that on purpose?  In a situation like this one, it only makes sense for them to come out with the truth about what happened.  Isis, I am not sure what was going on there.  It's a really good question!  After reading the book, I was convinced of the validity of the book.  It seems very strange that all of these things would be happening in one place.  But maybe that's the answer.  Maybe every sighting is just part of all of these things.  It just so happens that we got to see all of it in one place.  So it could all be happening just like it is in Utah all the time, it's just what we see that gets talked about.  Just like how a researcher could easily over look something because they aren't specifically looking for that, they are looking for something else.  

It seemed to me that what might be happening is this:  Our brains create something called DMT.  There are ways to create DMT outside of our bodies as well.  I am starting to believe that these phenomena could be from DMT.  Maybe there are DMT hot spots in the world.  And possibly people who are more susceptable to that.  So, if you;ve got all the ingredients which are:
Susceptable person to DMT hot spot + That person in a DMT hot spot = Paranormal phenomena.
Scientists have proven that they can recreate the feeling of "someone watching you" or "a presence in the room".  If that is true, than the right conditions could cause this to happen without scientists doing it.  Obviously, cause it happens to people all the time.

So maybe Skinwalker Ranch is a heightened DMT producing area of the earth where the magnetism of the core is somehow easier to get through in that particular place, or something like that.  And when a person who is susceptable to this (not sure what the parameters of that would be) gets into this area, they start seeing things.  DMT causes "hallucinations".  That's what scientists categorize something a when 1 person sees something and another person in the same room doesnt see it.

Ok so theres that theory.  But I have another theory.  I think that DMT could possibly be a travelling agent.  Somehow, DMT allows our brain to change its frequencies, to change its "level" and go to a different level of being.  A different dimension, or something to that effect.  If that is true, and you combine it with the theory I presented before this, then you get:
Susceptable person to DMT hot spot + DMT hot spot + Effects of DMT = Not a paranormal experience, but instead a person changing realities, being able to see another dimension juxtaposed with the one they are currently in.  

NOW that is FASCINATING stuff to think about.

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#20    battleangel

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 08:18 PM

Still haven't had the chance to pick up the book but I did find what seemed to be a decent list of some of what they experienced out there at this site:

http://www.book-of-thoth.com/thebook/index...kinwalker_ranch

#  Dogs that looked to be deceased, but were animated
# Dog-headed men smoking cigarettes
# Bigfoot-like creatures - the local Ute Indians believe some of these may be actual creatures but consider some of them to be skinwalkers - the Ute often seem to use the term Skinwalker/Sasquatch interchangeably.<ref name="kelleher">Kelleher, Colm & Knapp, George: Hunt for the Skinwalker: Science Confronts the Unexplained at a Remote Ranch in Utah (Paraview Pocket Books, 2005 ISBN 1-4165-0521-0)</ref>

These three things, just based on the brief little descriptions, do sound like skinwalkers.  Skinwalkers will use the skin of a dead animal to traipse around in.  You can tell it's a dead animal because it's missing the eyes and the skin is kind of rotting.  Yuck, lol.  They are perfectly capable of blowing whistles, flutes so one smoking a cigarette would not be impossible.  "Bigfoot like" creatures also make sense.  There was one guy that I ran into whose friend found a really good comparison that my husband (Navajo) just loved and that they can look like they are wearing a gillie suit like a sniper would wear.   This definitely give them a "bigfoot-like" appearance.

I'm still really troubled that they went to the Ute or an outsider who heard Ute versions of this kind of thing.  It's a Navajo thing.  They should have talked to the tribe where it originates from--not the Ute who tend to just be victims of the whole thing.  There's a huge difference in knowledge there.  Can anybody check to see if they read what Kluckhohn had to say on the subject?  His book has been out for decades and is really pretty good.  If not, it is this aspect that really makes me worry about their methodology at that ranch (I refuse to call it "skinwalker ranch" because there are probably hundreds of ranches that have skinwalker problems out here--they aren't that special).  If they were lucky or thorough, then they would've found out that the appearance of skinwalkers someplace might not indicate anything paranormal really as skinwalkers are pretty much really bad medicine with even worse taste in dress.

So, tiny nod in that they probably did see some skinwalkers but still irked.  I will still pick it up to read some century...





#21    Sweetpumper

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 07:03 PM

This book is freaky. A lot of info on the Dulce area also, as it seems to mirror a lot of the activities on the ranch. Also native land. This really boggles the mind.

"At it's most basic level, science is supposed to represent the investigation of the unexplained, not the explanation of the uninvestigated." - Hunt for the Skinwalker

"The ultimate irony of the Disclosure movement is that it deeply distrusts officialdom, while simultaneously looking to officialdom for the truth." - Robbie Graham Silver Screen Saucers

#22    The Skeptic Eric Raven

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 07:13 PM

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I believe that Science is the destroyer of an open mind.  The more we allow formulas and the scientific method to rule our lives, we'll end up like those people in the latest South Park episode saying things like, "Oh my Science, or Science H Science"  Science people are just as zealous as religious people.
Anyways

This is a sad commentary on the state some people.


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#23    Sweetpumper

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Posted 05 February 2007 - 04:16 AM

I really recommend this for skeptics also. I can't stress the scientific steps taken that leave this team with ONLY "wtf's?"

"At it's most basic level, science is supposed to represent the investigation of the unexplained, not the explanation of the uninvestigated." - Hunt for the Skinwalker

"The ultimate irony of the Disclosure movement is that it deeply distrusts officialdom, while simultaneously looking to officialdom for the truth." - Robbie Graham Silver Screen Saucers

#24    rezna

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 09:00 PM

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I really recommend this for skeptics also. I can't stress the scientific steps taken that leave this team with ONLY "wtf's?"


that about sums it up


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#25    Isis2200

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 06:40 PM

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NOW that is FASCINATING stuff to think about.



Wouldn't that be great if they made a movie based on that book?  I wonder if they've received any offers.  I'll try to find out.

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#26    The Omega Entity

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 10:17 PM

I'm about to read this book but i'm already well aware of the story. For the record, I DO believe in the phenomena but what has always gotten to me in this case and soooo many other single accounts: NO real photo's or video footage seem to surface....??? How can that be on each and every account? I mean, come on,...here we have a paranormal HOT-SPOT that's boasts not only of a high volume of sightings over a relatively short period of time(which would indicate predictability) but also, several variations of phenomena. Yet, not ONE clear picture or footage aside from the standard blurry wierd light, holes in the ground, and mutilated cattle seemed to come from both the original ranch owners or NDIS...? I think anyone even mildly suspicious of strange activity on or near thier home/land would be more prepared. Don't get me wrong, I do consider myself less of a skeptic than a believer but in my A to Z schematic of paranormal consideration, I do need to first clear the 'hurdle' of hard fact.

Edited by The Omega Entity, 07 February 2007 - 10:29 PM.

I won't believe you're a skeptic until you prove it to me repeatedly in a scientific setting...then I'll still find a way to debunk such a claim.

#27    icdedppul

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:36 PM

I live in Utah and know several people who have investigated The Ranch.  It is all true.  Two of my friends have had access to be on the Ranch itself.  The other four camped outside the Ranch.  They have all experienced unusual things.  One got up in the night to relieve himself and something (he couldn't see anything) lifted him up by the neck.  The next day he had a bruise on his right neck area.  Another one had some unidentifiable "bug" attach itself to his calf.  It was about 6 inches in diameter with a hard shell.  He got it off and it scurried off but left a nasty mark on his leg.  All report a rather "giddy" feeling after being near the Ranch and they feel like falling asleep.  Two of my friends had missing time experiences.  They also reported seeing a man by a tree just yards from their campsite in a red flannel shirt.  This guy has been seen by others.  

There is alot going on there and north of the Ranch.  The whole area is just plain strange.  The locals know about it is not an urban legend.  All Indian tribes have accounts of "skinwalkers'; not just the Navajo.  

I am going out there when the weather gets warm enough and I'll report what happens to us.  We're also investigating the Dry Fork Canyon area.  There's alot of high strangeness in Utah.  To read more on the Ranch go to a local who has done alot of investigating there at:  www.aliendave.com.  


Edited by icdedppul, 07 February 2007 - 11:38 PM.


#28    rezna

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 07:31 PM

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I live in Utah and know several people who have investigated The Ranch.  It is all true.  Two of my friends have had access to be on the Ranch itself.  The other four camped outside the Ranch.  They have all experienced unusual things.  One got up in the night to relieve himself and something (he couldn't see anything) lifted him up by the neck.  The next day he had a bruise on his right neck area.  Another one had some unidentifiable "bug" attach itself to his calf.  It was about 6 inches in diameter with a hard shell.  He got it off and it scurried off but left a nasty mark on his leg.  All report a rather "giddy" feeling after being near the Ranch and they feel like falling asleep.  Two of my friends had missing time experiences.  They also reported seeing a man by a tree just yards from their campsite in a red flannel shirt.  This guy has been seen by others.  

There is alot going on there and north of the Ranch.  The whole area is just plain strange.  The locals know about it is not an urban legend.  All Indian tribes have accounts of "skinwalkers'; not just the Navajo.  

I am going out there when the weather gets warm enough and I'll report what happens to us.  We're also investigating the Dry Fork Canyon area.  There's alot of high strangeness in Utah.  To read more on the Ranch go to a local who has done alot of investigating there at:  www.aliendave.com.


Excellent post, and very intriguing to hear from someone actually at the site.  

In response to the comments about science.  You are taking my words too specifically.  I don't ever say that all science is hogwash.  I definitely think the scientific method is a good one.  BUT, I do not like scientism as was described earlier in this thread.  When people use science as their religion, things get retarded.  And also, science is something we have made up.  All the words, the definitions, its all made up.  We are merely observing a phenomena and giving it a name.  Gravity is a good example.  We have merely observed it.  Reality didn't actually come out and say, "Gravity exists."  We decided that it exists.  I'm amazed that scientific people don't see how our human experiences in society shape what we think is weird and whats not.  It's difficult for me to articulate what I'm trying to explain.  But certain things in our society have already been labelled as "impossible" and those thing will never be accepted by the scientific community as actually worthy of debate.  They used to say string theory was retarded, now they accept it as part of the universe model.  It just takes time for scientists to allow something to be ok.  Its bureaucracy, pure and simple.  No scientist is going to say they are looking for a bigfoot creature, their career would be condemned.  That is why I say its retarded to worship science as if it's the only way to study something.  That is the most close minded avenue in this world.  Obviously more is going on than we can explain and worshipping science is exactly the same as worshipping god.

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#29    uth

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 09:40 PM

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In response to the comments about science.  You are taking my words too specifically.  I don't ever say that all science is hogwash.  I definitely think the scientific method is a good one.  BUT, I do not like scientism as was described earlier in this thread.  When people use science as their religion, things get retarded.  And also, science is something we have made up.  All the words, the definitions, its all made up.  We are merely observing a phenomena and giving it a name.  Gravity is a good example.  We have merely observed it.  Reality didn't actually come out and say, "Gravity exists."  We decided that it exists.  I'm amazed that scientific people don't see how our human experiences in society shape what we think is weird and whats not.  It's difficult for me to articulate what I'm trying to explain.  But certain things in our society have already been labelled as "impossible" and those thing will never be accepted by the scientific community as actually worthy of debate.  They used to say string theory was retarded, now they accept it as part of the universe model.  It just takes time for scientists to allow something to be ok.  Its bureaucracy, pure and simple.  No scientist is going to say they are looking for a bigfoot creature, their career would be condemned.  That is why I say its retarded to worship science as if it's the only way to study something.  That is the most close minded avenue in this world.  Obviously more is going on than we can explain and worshipping science is exactly the same as worshipping god.


Science likes to have repeatable data and tends to disregard anomalies as errors when they don't show up in repeated experiments.

When dealing with phenomena that only manifests under certain conditions, or whenever 'it' decides to,  does not lend itself to repeated controlled studies.   It makes it difficult, if not impossible to have a truly 'scientific' study of it.   You can document data about various manifestations of it, but it's still likely to be labeled as 'pseudo science' by those whose worldview doesn't allow for that type of phenomena to exist.



#30    MasterPo

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 06:00 AM

Might be a good read. But remember even the Amityville Horror book was finally exposed as a hoax.

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Have the courage to read it.




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