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Visual Reorientation Illusions (VRIs)


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#46    Hugh

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 12:30 PM

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I know what you are talking about here, having experienced it many times my self. The feeling is almost like a mild form of vertigo

Perhaps when you trigger it conchesly you triggering the same part of the brain where vertigo takes place
I have had the feeling of vertigo as a child and the feeling is similar just more intense

Vertigo definition
Vertigo, or dizziness, refers to the sensation of spinning (subjective vertigo) or the perception that surrounding objects are moving or spinning (objective vertigo). Some patients describe a feeling of being pulled toward the floor or toward one side of the room. Moving the head, changing position, and turning while lying down often worsen vertigo.

The VRI is similar to vertigo in that there is a perceived movement of one's self and surroundings, but it is not vertigo.

VRIs happen in an instant, there is no spinning, dizziness or feeling of movement. One doesn't feel being pulled to the floor or a side of the room.

The only time I think I experience vertigo is when I spin myself around in circles quickly many times and then stop. There is a perceived movement, even when stopped but this isn't how a VRI feels.

A VRI is experienced with an instant 90 or 180 degree flip, akin to seeing the Necker cube flip, and you end up facing an entirely new direction, at once.

Also, one can calmly decide to initiate a VRI, several times, back and forth and fully experience it, whereas vertigo seems like it is something that involves a "loss of control".

Edited by Hugh, 29 August 2007 - 12:34 PM.


#47    greggK

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 03:48 PM

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Hi greggK, thanks for your thoughts. 'Directional bearing' is the sense you have of which way you think that North, South, East and West are. We each have a sense of bearing that includes four different directions, along the ground that we are on.

With the Visual Reorientation Illusion, that bearing gets flipped around in an instant. You mentioned entering into a theater and then turning around to see the entrance, but this isn't what you see with a VRI. When you do a VRI in a theater, or any room, what you see is exactly the same thing, but you end up looking at it from another perpendicular direction, either 90 or 180 degrees flipped around.

You don't move at all, but North becomes South and East becomes West for a 180 degree flip for example.


According to the degrees of a circle, you have 360 different directions that you can go.  Your visual field is less than 180 degrees; probably closer to 90, so you can move in 90 different directions.  Turn you head and add that many directions.
You have to take into account any line is not straight; it is a segment of a curve.  
Our bodies standing in one place are travelling in one direction moving through 360 degrees in 24 hours.  That's 15 degrees per minute.  It gets even more complicated when you think that the earth is in another system that moves in possibly the oppopsite direction.  The light that enters your eye is not the same light at any one time during a 24 hour period.  The VRI is possibly the memory in your brain of the last moment of the contents of your visual field.  
I was seated at a table and I had a split second vision of the room and the room was dark and all around me was 'pixels' of light.  I was at the other end of the room looking at myself.  I sit at that table perhaps three of four times a day and at night.  When I was talking about being in a theatre and turning around to look, it is the exact same thing that is your memory; you had to pass through what you are looking at to get to where you are.

To further explain that, you may walk the same path every day up and back.  Into your visual field is the contents of every direction.  In a VRI, your brain will go into its memory and pick out a direction that is there and it may be an orientation of 15 degrees or 25 or 90 and replay it.  That's what I think.

Edited by greggK, 29 August 2007 - 04:00 PM.

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#48    Hugh

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 08:23 PM

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The VRI is possibly the memory in your brain of the last moment of the contents of your visual field.... In a VRI, your brain will go into its memory and pick out a direction that is there and it may be an orientation of 15 degrees or 25 or 90 and replay it.  That's what I think.

Thank you for your response greggK.

The VRI always happens at a 90 or 180 degree angle. I understand what you are saying about seeing from a previous direction, and then seeing it that way again. That's partially how I do the VRI in a movie theater. I think of being in a theater that I have previously been in, that faces another perpendicular direction, and then I can consciously do a VRI so that the theater I'm in now faces exactly like the one in my memory.

Doing this, I can flip around to four different theater viewpoints, each at right (90 degree) angles to one another. Remember though that I haven't left the one I was first in, it's still the same theater and universe, just flipped around.  original.gif

This is what is so amazing about the VRI, is that one can see four different, distinct, directional views of one's surroundings. It's like being in a whole new space each time you do it, and it's a lot of fun.

I have more of an explanation of how to do the VRI in a movie theater in previous posts in this thread. It's the easiest place for me to do the VRI in.

I encourage anyone reading this thread to attempt the VRI next time they're in a theater and report back if the attempt is successful.  original.gif


#49    rm76

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 09:38 AM

hi Hugh,

i've been searching for an explanation to this phenomenon for a long, long time. The problem was i didn't even know what to search for on google since i didn't know what to search for. I got to know it's called a VRI, just yesterday. I just want you to know I understand *exactly* what you mean regarding VRIs. I have been 'having' them since childhood (used to think of it as some kind of superpower!!). It's more or less under my 'control' now, so I'm mostly in my home 'dimension' until i choose to consciously change it. Looking forward to your further inputs over the next few days.

Again, thanks for your efforts to explain it to others.

Edited by rm76, 22 September 2009 - 09:45 AM.


#50    Hugh

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 12:35 PM

View Postrm76, on 22 September 2009 - 09:38 AM, said:

hi Hugh,

i've been searching for an explanation to this phenomenon for a long, long time. The problem was i didn't even know what to search for on google since i didn't know what to search for. I got to know it's called a VRI, just yesterday. I just want you to know I understand *exactly* what you mean regarding VRIs. I have been 'having' them since childhood (used to think of it as some kind of superpower!!). It's more or less under my 'control' now, so I'm mostly in my home 'dimension' until i choose to consciously change it. Looking forward to your further inputs over the next few days.

Again, thanks for your efforts to explain it to others.
Hi rm76. Wow, great to hear your similar experience with VRIs!

Thanks for sharing. Yes, I understand about the home 'dimension'... I call it the 'normal' viewpoint as it's the default way of seeing everything.

So, how long have you been able to control the flip and how did it come about? Isn't it fun? Isn't it great to see the four different views?

Ever get them in the movie theatre? Ever do a four viewpoint flip within a short time by conscious control?

Wow... this is great... :)


#51    Hugh

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 12:41 PM

By the way, this thread was one I started about VRIs a while back... here is the more recent thread on this forum if you'd like to see some new stuff about the VRI flip...

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=159285


#52    rm76

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 01:05 PM

View PostHugh, on 22 September 2009 - 12:35 PM, said:

Hi rm76. Wow, great to hear your similar experience with VRIs!

Thanks for sharing. Yes, I understand about the home 'dimension'... I call it the 'normal' viewpoint as it's the default way of seeing everything.

So, how long have you been able to control the flip and how did it come about? Isn't it fun? Isn't it great to see the four different views?

Ever get them in the movie theatre? Ever do a four viewpoint flip within a short time by conscious control?

Wow... this is great... :)

Hi Hugh,
Pleased to know you're there. I thought this thread was dead.

It's absolutely wonderful to communicate with somebody who understands what this phenomenon feels like.

I've had these VRIs ever since i can remember, since early childhood. I really can't remember a time when i didn't have it. I recall it being very disorienting initially but it probably took a couple of years (maybe by the time i was 7-8 yrs old) to get it under a measure of control. Over the years i have learnt to control it very well and i can consciously get it anywhere, anyplace - though it takes some time to settle into the home dimension after that. I suggest you try it when you're seated in a fast moving train sitting in a window seat, then change 90-degree angles one by one. It's also easy to 'skip' a dimension while rotating. Like you've said in one of your other posts, it's always 90 or 180 degrees. Full four point flip is also easy now - i wanted your feedback on that - i feel two of these dimensions are 'set' closer together then the rest - [like - -- -] - that is, they seem more similar and are harder to separate. I am so excited about finding this site and your posts that i haven't found the time to read thru your other posts.

Since when have you had these VRIs?
Are they really of any consequence except the fun that can be had?


I'm sorry if you've already answered in other posts, I just can't wait to find out.


#53    Hugh

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 01:48 PM

View Postrm76, on 22 September 2009 - 01:05 PM, said:

Hi Hugh,
Pleased to know you're there. I thought this thread was dead.

I check in here regularly to see if anyone has responded to my VRI threads... it's a big interest of mine. :)

View Postrm76, on 22 September 2009 - 01:05 PM, said:

It's absolutely wonderful to communicate with somebody who understands what this phenomenon feels like.

Same for me... it's such a fascinating thing that happens with the VRI... a whole new world and dimension with every flip... :)

View Postrm76, on 22 September 2009 - 01:05 PM, said:

I've had these VRIs ever since i can remember, since early childhood. I really can't remember a time when i didn't have it. I recall it being very disorienting initially but it probably took a couple of years (maybe by the time i was 7-8 yrs old) to get it under a measure of control. Over the years i have learnt to control it very well and i can consciously get it anywhere, anyplace - though it takes some time to settle into the home dimension after that.

It can happen anytime, anyplace for me too, though it takes a while for me to consciously be able to do the flip in new places that I've only seen one way... unless it's a movie theatre lol.

View Postrm76, on 22 September 2009 - 01:05 PM, said:

I suggest you try it when you're seated in a fast moving train sitting in a window seat, then change 90-degree angles one by one.

Yes, I've found in a train or subway or car that one has a "movement" boost factor that allows for easier flipping. It's like you're already travelling so it's easier for your brain to see the flip as well.

Hey, have you ever been going around a curve in a subway or train, and know that you're going around a curve, and trying to see the curve but it stays locked in to the same direction... then you do a 90 to do the curve by conscious thought?

View Postrm76, on 22 September 2009 - 01:05 PM, said:

It's also easy to 'skip' a dimension while rotating. Like you've said in one of your other posts, it's always 90 or 180 degrees.

Yes, always 90 or 180, but the 180s are much easier for me... for you too?...

You mentioned 'skipping a dimension'... that's interesting... one of the four views and each one it's own dimension...

When I was a kid I thought that each view was a parallel universe... actually I still think it may be possible... :)

View Postrm76, on 22 September 2009 - 01:05 PM, said:

Full four point flip is also easy now - i wanted your feedback on that - i feel two of these dimensions are 'set' closer together then the rest - [like - -- -] - that is, they seem more similar and are harder to separate.

Full four point flips are easiest in a movie theatre, but harder in other places for me...

For me the 180s are similar so they're easier, whereas the 90s are more different so they're harder.

View Postrm76, on 22 September 2009 - 01:05 PM, said:

I am so excited about finding this site and your posts that i haven't found the time to read thru your other posts.

Since when have you had these VRIs?

Since childhood. I've been in various forums talking about VRIs for a few years now, unfortunately some of the forums and threads have disappeared...

View Postrm76, on 22 September 2009 - 01:05 PM, said:

Are they really of any consequence except the fun that can be had?

This is the BIG question.

Personally, since childhood, I've believed that the experience could be linked somehow to the existence of other dimensions or parallel universes because that's how it feels.

When the flip happens, one feels that one is somewhere else, somewhere new, yet somewhere the same... everything is so familiar, yet it is from another dimension of space, another viewing angle...

I read a book by Rudy Rucker where he talks about the Fourth Spatial Dimension and it had some clues as to how I think this experience may be related to the possible existence of it.

Further reading linked up Michio Kaku's thoughts about how higher spatial dimensions may help to explain the physics of the universe.

I've read how scientists have asked... if there are higher spatial dimensions then where is our experience of them?

This is where I think the VRI fits in.

I'm hoping that I can contribute something and help somehow.

Perhaps thinking 'outside the box' into four different boxes can help explain everything... :)

View Postrm76, on 22 September 2009 - 01:05 PM, said:

I'm sorry if you've already answered in other posts, I just can't wait to find out.

Enjoy reading through all the other threads, there is lots to think about and explore. :)


#54    Rosewin

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 02:30 PM

This has to be the most fascinating yet confusing thread on this forum. I really wish you could better explain exactly what you see.

If you are sitting in a theater facing north, then imagine to be sitting in the south theater, wouldn't you simply be facing south now and seeing the south screen?

Instead you say you can be in south theater, where one would normally face south and see the south screen, but you stated you are in the south but are looking at the north screen still?

So if you are in the south theater but can see the north screen would you not be sitting backwards in the south theater?

And if you are in the south theater looking at the north screen, as pelican eel asked, can you see yourself sitting in the north theater?

I am going to guess that this is all wrong and that when you state you are now sitting in the south theater looking north that in your mind the whole of the south theater has turned so that it faces north now. My question would then be what happened to the south screen and the movie that was on it?


#55    Hugh

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 02:41 PM

View PostRosewin, on 22 September 2009 - 02:30 PM, said:

This has to be the most fascinating yet confusing thread on this forum. I really wish you could better explain exactly what you see.

Hehe Rosewin, welcome to the world of the VRI. :)

View PostRosewin, on 22 September 2009 - 02:30 PM, said:

I am going to guess that this is all wrong and that when you state you are now sitting in the south theater looking north that in your mind the whole of the south theater has turned so that it faces north now. My question would then be what happened to the south screen and the movie that was on it?
Say you're sitting in the theatre facing North, facing the screen.

In an instant, the whole theatre and universe is flipped around in a direction that South used to be in (a 180 degree flip).

So now, you're still in the same theatre facing North, facing the screen, but it is now in the direction that South used to be in. :)

Posted Image

You can also have a 90 degree flip, where North flips to where East or West used to be. :)

Edited by Hugh, 22 September 2009 - 02:44 PM.


#56    rm76

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 06:11 AM

View PostRosewin, on 22 September 2009 - 02:30 PM, said:

This has to be the most fascinating yet confusing thread on this forum. I really wish you could better explain exactly what you see.
Hi Rosewin,
It's very, very difficult to explain a VRI. I think Hugh has done a commendable job thru his posts. I know how confusing it can sound.

View PostRosewin, on 22 September 2009 - 02:30 PM, said:

If you are sitting in a theater facing north, then imagine to be sitting in the south theater, wouldn't you simply be facing south now and seeing the south screen?
Your entire frame of reference changes when you experience a VRI - a south still remains a 'south' in the traditional sense, only because the other directions have 'rotated' correspondingly too.


To Hugh:

Before finding this site, I had almost concluded that what we have could be a form of Synesthesia - some people can 'see' sounds or 'hear' colors, maybe VRIs are related to this phenomenon.

Edited by rm76, 23 September 2009 - 06:12 AM.


#57    Rosewin

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 06:45 AM

So if you are in a theater sitting down and this happens will you then see the person sitting on the left side now on the right side?

If you were to look down would your watch on your left hand suddenly be on your right hand?

If you are driving down the road here in America would you suddenly feel you are driving as they do in the UK with the wheel also now being on the passenger side of the car?


#58    rm76

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 07:46 AM

View PostRosewin, on 23 September 2009 - 06:45 AM, said:

So if you are in a theater sitting down and this happens will you then see the person sitting on the left side now on the right side?
Not at all.

View PostRosewin, on 23 September 2009 - 06:45 AM, said:

If you were to look down would your watch on your left hand suddenly be on your right hand?
Again, no.

View PostRosewin, on 23 September 2009 - 06:45 AM, said:

If you are driving down the road here in America would you suddenly feel you are driving as they do in the UK with the wheel also now being on the passenger side of the car?
It's not that individual objects change their physical positions, but the entire scene changes. Imagine (from an aerial view) of a car driving down a road towards an intersection, then imagine a giant invisible hand playfully rotating the *entire* view by 90 degrees repeatedly till we're back to the 'original' view. Physically the driver side does not change, but it would be disorienting at the least to have a VRI happen at that time. Left would still be left, but it's like someone with a four-way knob has just 'placed' you in a different world, which is 90 degrees away from where you originally were just a second ago.


#59    Hugh

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 12:16 PM

View PostRosewin, on 23 September 2009 - 06:45 AM, said:

So if you are in a theater sitting down and this happens will you then see the person sitting on the left side now on the right side?

If you were to look down would your watch on your left hand suddenly be on your right hand?

If you are driving down the road here in America would you suddenly feel you are driving as they do in the UK with the wheel also now being on the passenger side of the car?
It's a rotation Rosewin, not a reflection.

Picture yourself in the theatre facing the screen North.

Then like rm76 says, a giant hand comes down and picks up the whole theatre (and universe) and spins it around 180 degrees.

Now, you are still in the same theatre facing the same screen, and whoever was sitting on your left is still on your left, and your watch on your left wrist is still on your left wrist, but you are now facing the opposite direction, so North is now where South used to be.

This is why you hear of someone getting "turned around" in their bearings. :)


#60    Hugh

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 12:47 PM

View Postrm76, on 23 September 2009 - 06:11 AM, said:

To Hugh:

Before finding this site, I had almost concluded that what we have could be a form of Synesthesia - some people can 'see' sounds or 'hear' colors, maybe VRIs are related to this phenomenon.
I read a bit about Synesthesia, it's interesting how feelings can be related to things.

Similarly, memories for me of any event are related to the viewpoint that I was in during the time.

For example, the first time that I was able to consciously control a VRI I remember which viewpoint that I was able to flip back to. I remember being back there and which of the 4 views that I was in.

Each memory that I have has a spatial viewpoint link related to it.

It's like there are four different parallel worlds of each space, each rotated around to the four different ways possible.

But one can only be in one of the worlds at a time.

So if some event happens, there is a memory of what happened, but also where it happened, because it matters which of the viewpoints you were in at the time.

It's like four different spaces exist, so if you have a memory of picking up a pen somewhere, you also have a bearing sense of which way the universe was turned around during that time.

rm76, have you ever tried to remember some event from your past but from a different viewpoint of that space? It's not there right?

Do you have to see it from the correct viewpoint as well?

For example let's label the 4 different views of the house you grew up in: A, B, C, and D.

Try to remember an event from your childhood that happened in view A, from the perspective of view C... it isn't there right?

For me it isn't there because it didn't happen in that parallel world/viewpoint, it happened in this one... :)
____________________

For Rosewin:

Here is another explanation of the VRI movie theatre flip that I posted earlier on the other VRI thread here:

Posted Image

Edited by Hugh, 23 September 2009 - 01:02 PM.





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