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Is it possible for a God to be almighty ?


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#1    TheLight

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:02 AM

I was just thinking how could a God (any God, no specific religion implied) be almighty. But I found that doesn't stand logical analysis, read below.

Let's assume he is almighty for the sake of the argument, so:
1. if he's almighty he can create a stone so heavy that no-one (including himself) can lift.
2. if he can't lift it then he isn't almighty. If he can lift it then that contradicts (1) (he can't create a stone so heavy than no-one (including himself) can lift)

So basically he can't be almighty.

I'd like to see your reactions to this demonstration. Is there a way around it that would allow a God to be almighty ? Or is it definitely impossible ?

TheLight


#2    Pinecone

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:38 AM

An almighty God would know better than to make a stone he couldn't lift.


#3    codiac

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 05:45 PM

but that means there are some things he simply - can't do:)))))


#4    theSOURCE

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:45 PM

QUOTE
1. if he's almighty he can create a stone so heavy that no-one (including himself) can lift.


All God would have to do is create the stone in outer space. To lift something means to raise it from a lower level to a higher one. Since there is no up or down in space, the act of lifting something ceases to exist. Therefore he cannot lift the stone.

Then to prove he can lift the stone, all he has to do is place the stone on a planetary body where the act of lifting something does exist, and he can then lift the stone.


#5    Nxt2Hvn

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:46 PM

I don't question it!!!!

I just know he is almighty!!

And that's that!!!  wink2.gif  

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.

Don't be afraid that your life will end, be afraid that it will never begin. ~anonymous~

#6    moe eubleck

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 07:14 PM

QUOTE (TheLight @ Nov 13 2003, 05:02 AM)
I was just thinking how could a God (any God, no specific religion implied) be almighty. But I found that doesn't stand logical analysis, read below.


ah yes,  *applauds* the typical anit- religion debate. Just keep spouting your slogans.  thumbsup.gif
If you would bother to study religion in depth, from any perspective, you would know that God being Almighty is but a small idea in the vast world of religions.
It would be like saying Taoism is all about balance, and creating a  comical paradox about it.  Balance is only one of the many lessons of the Tao .  
i think NXt2hvn has a very healthy outlook. She doesnt need to argue.

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#7    DarkShade

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 07:45 PM

If we could comprehend the unfathomable power the creator has (or might have, in the skeptics case), lifting a boulder will be passe.  This is going to sound like "Why would he bother", but perhaps we don't understand all what he can do because we are limited to the third dimension of thinking, whether he can lift a boulder too heavy for him or not, there's probably a reason why and why not that we couldn't possibly comprehend.


#8    moe eubleck

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 08:20 PM

To answer the question "is it possible for a god to be almighty"  i suggest we first understand the defintion of almighty:
often capitalized : having absolute power over all <Almighty God>
2 : relatively unlimited in power
3 : great in magnitude or seriousness

  now consider this:

According to David Barrett et al, editors of the "World Christian Encyclopedia: A comparative survey of churches and religions - AD 30 to 2200," there are 19 major world religions which are subdivided into a total of 270 large religious groups, and many smaller ones. 34,000 separate Christian groups have been identified in the world. "Over half of them are independent churches that are not interested in linking with the big denominations."
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  After reading the definition then reading the statistics of God's influence,   wouldnt it be fair to say that God really is almighty? And that was 3 years ago...  thumbsup.gif  

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#9    dust19

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 09:00 PM

could not the god of choice create a stone impossible to lift for himself...but THEN should the need to lift it arise, simply alter the conditions of the universe in which the stone lies to conform to whatever necessities arise in order to make said stone liftable? Therefore, the god could create alternate universes dependant upon whether or not the stone needs to be lifted..therefore residing within universe #1, the god can say .."this stone which I have created is unliftable," But then also migrate to universe #2 and say "I can now lift the stone which is simultaneously unliftable."


#10    TheLight

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 09:05 PM

Ok but basically the topic wasn't about any religion in particular, and the demonstration is purely logical.

I like the idea from theSOURCE but in the end that doesn't prove the case since lifting an object means moving it away from where it is attracted. There's attraction anywhere in space, it's simply extremely small when you get far from a dense object (it decrease with the square of the distance), but nonetheless it exists. So you can lift an object in space.

To respond to the one saying this was an anti-religion topic, it's not. It just questions if a God could be almighty, no more no less. May be a God is almighty enough to do what he has to do but that doesn't mean is 100% almighty.

TheLight


#11    TheLight

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 09:07 PM

QUOTE (dust19 @ Nov 13 2003, 08:00 PM)
could not the god of choice create a stone impossible to lift for himself...but THEN should the need to lift it arise, simply alter the conditions of the universe in which the stone lies to conform to whatever necessities arise in order to make said stone liftable? Therefore, the god could create alternate universes dependant upon whether or not the stone needs to be lifted..therefore residing within universe #1, the god can say .."this stone which I have created is unliftable," But then also migrate to universe #2 and say "I can now lift the stone which is simultaneously unliftable."

Ok but then he can't lift the stone in the universe #1, so again he's not almighty.


#12    dust19

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 09:11 PM

a god who is almighty, can make the choice to put his/her 'might' on 'hold' in order to become mightless. It is this ability that only contributes to his/her almightyness.


#13    TheLight

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 09:24 PM

QUOTE (dust19 @ Nov 13 2003, 08:11 PM)
a god who is almighty, can make the choice to put his/her 'might' on 'hold' in order to become mightless. It is this ability that only contributes to his/her almightyness.

Actually that's a pretty convincing answer you got there. Very nice. But there's a potential flaw, that includes will. By putting his almightyness on hold he's willing not to lift the stone, which doesn't mean he can't, it just means he doesn't want to lift it in the first place.

But the way the problem is stated is independant of will. So may be there's more than that to explain almightyness !

Anyway, your explanation is the best attempt I've ever heard or read for the matter.

TheLight


#14    dust19

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 09:35 PM

I like these type of questions. They really have NO right answer. Both parties just keep expanding and expanding until you realize that your using a lot of brain power to figure out nothing. To me it says a lot about how we, as humans, think. We may think we're getting smarter, but it's the fact that where we are focusing our thought power is not the smartest place. Think about it...


#15    Nxt2Hvn

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 09:36 PM

QUOTE (dust19 @ Nov 13 2003, 08:35 PM)
I like these type of questions. They really have NO right answer. Both parties just keep expanding and expanding until you realize that your using a lot of brain power to figure out nothing. To me it says a lot about how we, as humans, think. We may think we're getting smarter, but it's the fact that where we are focusing our thought power is not the smartest place. Think about it...

That's why I'm sticking to my answer!!  wink2.gif original.gif  

I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.

Don't be afraid that your life will end, be afraid that it will never begin. ~anonymous~




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