Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * - 7 votes

PSI -vs- SCI


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
523 replies to this topic

#1    Jjbreen

Jjbreen

    Government Agent

  • Closed
  • 3,868 posts
  • Joined:24 Sep 2006

  • Time is the teller of all tales great and small.

Posted 10 December 2006 - 12:08 AM

Sci –vs- Psi

This is getting to be sad, really sad. I am more and more convinced that the “believer” has little to no understanding of basic SCI (science) at all!

I am convinced that the ‘believer’ has no concept of ‘critical thinking skills’ and ‘analytical thinking skills’, let alone the basic understanding of the very real SCI (science) of what you are actually doing!!

The history books are full of people that understood science and fooled the people into thinking “magic” in many and various forms was ‘a foot’. But it was nothing more than playing on people’s lack of understanding of SCI.

Today we see the same thing happening again – people are being ‘sold’ a bill of goods. People are making claims of PSI when in all reality it is SCI (science).

In the case of the “psi-wheel”: We skeptics are the ‘evil ones’ – why? Because we see SCI and NOT Psi at work! We even point out the SCI that is work and we are told, “you won’t believe anything, even if it’s right in front of your noses!!” Actually it’s more; “you do not see what is right in front of your noses!” You do not see the SCI that is there. You are an ignorant “Mystic Illusionist”. You are trying to “pull off an illusion”, but do not even understand the SCI that is behind it. We skeptics do. The statement would be more accurately stated,” Why won’t you do some simple homework and/or research and understand the scientific dynamics that are at play??”

You should be asking yourself – “What scientific law or physical law is at play??” Then understand that you HAVE to remove those dynamics from being there. Until you remove the obvious laws of science – you are not proving PSI, you are proving SCI.

Let me use one of the “believers” own desperate attempts at proving PSI when in all actuality you proved and showed clearly SCI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2_hfdVFJ1E

Now I really want you to watch this again. I dare you to!
I want you to notice the sequence of when he is brings in the white paper wall.
Notice that he has it too close to the pin-wheel. Notice that while he is angling it away from the pin-wheel, it is ALREADY spinning!!
No Psi is involved, non at all – he has not started that part!
But the pin-wheel is already starting to spinning!!
WHY? SCI not Psi, that is why!

Now you have to ask why??  Answer: T H E R M O D Y N A M I C S.

Plus, because of the angle of the paper wider towards the camera and narrow away from it, it has created the direction the air flow will move: COUNTER CLOCK WISE; which by the way is EXACTLY the direction the pin wheel moves.

He couldn’t make it move clock wise if he tried, because SCI laws were already strongly in play. (Actually with that set up, if he had gotten it to move clock-wise, it would have been impressive!!
Why?
Because he would be moving against the laws of SCI already set into motion. He must leave it exactly as he has it and then move the pin-wheel CLOCK WISE. That would have some heads scratching, seriously big time. He was opposing the laws that were clearly set into place.  But the laws of SCI were already at play – unless he changed the angle of the paper wall to what? (To make it move clock wise.) The answer is simple, really!!

Now for those who choose to “prove PSI” with the enclosed jar. Back in Jr. High we did science experiments with jars to produce certain weather conditions. We actually used PIN-WHEELS in this so show how AIR MOVEMENT works! But you know what; I am beginning to think that they simply do not teach this anymore, which is really very sad! So I will insist that you understand these dynamics BEFORE you start to use this clear SCI to prove your PSI.

When you believers are going to show what you want to believe and accept as PSI, you better be sure it’s not SCI! For it’s NOT the “skeptics” fault if you are not accepted. It’s yours, for not taking the time to understand the SCI dynamics that are at play in what you do! You honestly look like the idiot, because you do not see what is going on in front of your nose! You do not see nor do I believe you wish to see and understand the reality of the SCI that seriously and really at play.

If you want to prove PSI to us – you must clearly violate the laws of SCI that are in place. Nothing less can be done. You also must present what you’ve set into place. In the example of above.

“I have set the white wall so that the pin-wheel is forced to move counter clock-wise. Make sure the pin-wheel is moving freely by SCI in a clear counter clock-wise motion. Then you use PSI to move it clock-wise! But you cannot use your hands. Can you tell me why?? There is a very clear SCI reason why your hands cannot be in play. WHY??

So anyone practicing “PSI” has to have and must have at least a good working understanding of SCI.



#2    rev r

rev r

    Dudeist Priest

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,039 posts
  • Joined:28 Sep 2006
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:nowhere, everywhere

  • Grass is Green;
    Sky is Blue

Posted 10 December 2006 - 01:10 AM

Jj, with all due respect, this post is exactly the same kind of pontification you are railing against in the other threads. You've spent all this time demanding, yes demanding, proof and haven't been given anything that suits you. You have been given several responses of "look for yourself," or "try it for yourself." Now here you are making the same declaration from the other side of the fence. "The truth is out there, look for yourself." I am now holding you to the same standard you hold the believers to. If you have this said proof of how the "Psi-wheel" works, end the debate once and for all by showing it.

Two starving men arguing over which wax apple looks more real.


#3    Jjbreen

Jjbreen

    Government Agent

  • Closed
  • 3,868 posts
  • Joined:24 Sep 2006

  • Time is the teller of all tales great and small.

Posted 10 December 2006 - 01:24 AM

Quote

Jj, with all due respect, this post is exactly the same kind of pontification you are railing against in the other threads. You've spent all this time demanding, yes demanding, proof and haven't been given anything that suits you. You have been given several responses of "look for yourself," or "try it for yourself." Now here you are making the same declaration from the other side of the fence. "The truth is out there, look for yourself." I am now holding you to the same standard you hold the believers to. If you have this said proof of how the "Psi-wheel" works, end the debate once and for all by showing it.


Actually - it's not the same - it's talking very specifically about science and the need to understand Science.

But --> I did: Using the believers own "youtube "proof" -

Quote

Let me use one of the “believers” own desperate attempts at proving PSI when in all actuality you proved and showed clearly SCI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2_hfdVFJ1E

Now I really want you to watch this again. I dare you to!
I want you to notice the sequence of when he is brings in the white paper wall.
Notice that he has it too close to the pin-wheel. Notice that while he is angling it away from the pin-wheel, it is ALREADY spinning!!
No Psi is involved, non at all – he has not started that part!
But the pin-wheel is already starting to spinning!!
WHY? SCI not Psi, that is why!


I am not sure how more clear I can be?? I did provide proof, example and what not and actual explination of what and why with the angle of the paper and why the pin-wheel is spinning counter clock wise. The focus being Science.

But - Moderators - if this is the same as 99.5% - I submit to your call on this and feel free to delete it if you see the need.

Respectfully - Jj

Edited by Jjbreen, 10 December 2006 - 01:26 AM.


#4    rev r

rev r

    Dudeist Priest

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,039 posts
  • Joined:28 Sep 2006
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:nowhere, everywhere

  • Grass is Green;
    Sky is Blue

Posted 10 December 2006 - 01:46 AM

What I am saying Jj (though I admit not very elegantly) is that perhaps you should offer the benefit of your knowledge and explain the proof in more detail. Tell them why it works that way. Remember not all the believers have the same degree of education as you. Sorry but what you offered in that thread was almost as empty as some of the proof that the believers offered you. If you think people need to learn something, teach them man. It's what elders are for. original.gif

You've tried to get people to look at things with an inquisitive mind and that itself is commendable, but it seems that you are getting a little too aggravated with the subject.

Apologies if my tone was too aggressive before.

Two starving men arguing over which wax apple looks more real.


#5    ssjtin

ssjtin

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 217 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2006

Posted 10 December 2006 - 02:41 AM

He has explained in laymans terms before.  It's so so simple.  The different in heat between your hands and the air in between causes a small air current which easily moves the thin piece of paper.  We don't need to try for ourselves because what they are doing is not being faked, they're using thermodynamics and perceiving it as psi because they don't know any better.  Jj has offered the correct explanation for what is happening and yet still people ignore these facts and are convinced that what they're doing is supernatural.  

PS rev r you joined this forum on my birthday!


#6    virusdeath0

virusdeath0

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 237 posts
  • Joined:15 Oct 2006
  • Location:Brisbane

  • I'm not afraid of Death. Because death must fear me.

Posted 10 December 2006 - 03:21 AM

Dam. I shouldn't have posted that clip. Oh well.

I got bored of my Signature. So I shall say this one thing. HABAH!!!

#7    brave_new_world

brave_new_world

    Peasant love child

  • Member
  • 6,842 posts
  • Joined:25 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western Australia

  • My men like satyrs grazing on the lawns, shall with their goat-feet dance the antic hay. --Marlowe

Posted 10 December 2006 - 03:29 AM

Quote

Sci –vs- Psi

This is getting to be sad, really sad. I am more and more convinced that the “believer” has little to no understanding of basic SCI (science) at all!

I am convinced that the ‘believer’ has no concept of ‘critical thinking skills’ and ‘analytical thinking skills’, let alone the basic understanding of the very real SCI (science) of what you are actually doing!!

The history books are full of people that understood science and fooled the people into thinking “magic” in many and various forms was ‘a foot’. But it was nothing more than playing on people’s lack of understanding of SCI.

Today we see the same thing happening again – people are being ‘sold’ a bill of goods. People are making claims of PSI when in all reality it is SCI (science).

In the case of the “psi-wheel”: We skeptics are the ‘evil ones’ – why? Because we see SCI and NOT Psi at work! We even point out the SCI that is work and we are told, “you won’t believe anything, even if it’s right in front of your noses!!” Actually it’s more; “you do not see what is right in front of your noses!” You do not see the SCI that is there. You are an ignorant “Mystic Illusionist”. You are trying to “pull off an illusion”, but do not even understand the SCI that is behind it. We skeptics do. The statement would be more accurately stated,” Why won’t you do some simple homework and/or research and understand the scientific dynamics that are at play??”

You should be asking yourself – “What scientific law or physical law is at play??” Then understand that you HAVE to remove those dynamics from being there. Until you remove the obvious laws of science – you are not proving PSI, you are proving SCI.

Let me use one of the “believers” own desperate attempts at proving PSI when in all actuality you proved and showed clearly SCI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2_hfdVFJ1E

Now I really want you to watch this again. I dare you to!
I want you to notice the sequence of when he is brings in the white paper wall.
Notice that he has it too close to the pin-wheel. Notice that while he is angling it away from the pin-wheel, it is ALREADY spinning!!
No Psi is involved, non at all – he has not started that part!
But the pin-wheel is already starting to spinning!!
WHY? SCI not Psi, that is why!

Now you have to ask why??  Answer: T H E R M O D Y N A M I C S.

Plus, because of the angle of the paper wider towards the camera and narrow away from it, it has created the direction the air flow will move: COUNTER CLOCK WISE; which by the way is EXACTLY the direction the pin wheel moves.

He couldn’t make it move clock wise if he tried, because SCI laws were already strongly in play. (Actually with that set up, if he had gotten it to move clock-wise, it would have been impressive!!
Why?
Because he would be moving against the laws of SCI already set into motion. He must leave it exactly as he has it and then move the pin-wheel CLOCK WISE. That would have some heads scratching, seriously big time. He was opposing the laws that were clearly set into place.  But the laws of SCI were already at play – unless he changed the angle of the paper wall to what? (To make it move clock wise.) The answer is simple, really!!

Now for those who choose to “prove PSI” with the enclosed jar. Back in Jr. High we did science experiments with jars to produce certain weather conditions. We actually used PIN-WHEELS in this so show how AIR MOVEMENT works! But you know what; I am beginning to think that they simply do not teach this anymore, which is really very sad! So I will insist that you understand these dynamics BEFORE you start to use this clear SCI to prove your PSI.

When you believers are going to show what you want to believe and accept as PSI, you better be sure it’s not SCI! For it’s NOT the “skeptics” fault if you are not accepted. It’s yours, for not taking the time to understand the SCI dynamics that are at play in what you do! You honestly look like the idiot, because you do not see what is going on in front of your nose! You do not see nor do I believe you wish to see and understand the reality of the SCI that seriously and really at play.

If you want to prove PSI to us – you must clearly violate the laws of SCI that are in place. Nothing less can be done. You also must present what you’ve set into place. In the example of above.

“I have set the white wall so that the pin-wheel is forced to move counter clock-wise. Make sure the pin-wheel is moving freely by SCI in a clear counter clock-wise motion. Then you use PSI to move it clock-wise! But you cannot use your hands. Can you tell me why?? There is a very clear SCI reason why your hands cannot be in play. WHY??

So anyone practicing “PSI” has to have and must have at least a good working understanding of SCI.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  YOU REALLY THINK PSI CANNOT EXIST IN SCIENCE???!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HOW UNSCIENTIFIC!!!!!!!! INSANE!! YOU MIGHT AS WELL SAY THE WORLD IS FLAT. I won't talk about psi I'll state some quantum physics facts from the book "What the bleep do we know" read if you dare and then say if psi isn;t possible.

I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics.---Richard Feynman, awarded the 1965 Nobel Prize for the development of quantum eclectrodynamics

Those who are not shocked when they first come across quantum theory cannot possibly have understood it.----- Niels Bohr, awarded the 1922 Nobel Prize for work on the structure of the atom

No perceptual judgement can ever be made with complete certainty.---Werner Heisenberg, Nobel Laurete in physics(not in what the beel do we know book)

Fact or Fiction?

What quantum theory has reaveled is so mind-boggling that it sounds more like science fiction: Particles may be in two or more places at once.(A very recent experiment found that one particle could be in up to 3,000 places!) The same "object" may appear to be a particle, locatable in one place, or a wave, spread out over space and time.
Einstien said that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, but quantum physics has demonstrated that subatomic particles seem to communicate instantaneously over any expanse of space.

insane!!

Let's start with something familiar to most of us. One of the first cracks in the structure of Newtonian physics was the discovery that atoms, the supposedly  solid building blocks of the physical universe, were mostly made up of empty space. How empty? If we use a basketball to represent the nucleus of a hydrogen atom, the electron circling it would be about twenty  miles away--and everything inbetween would be empty. So as you look around, remember that what really is there are tiny, tiny points of matter surrounded by nothing.

Well, not really. That supposed "emptiness" is not empty at all: It contains enormous quantities of subtle, powerful energy. We know energy increases as we go subtler levels of matter(nuvlear energy being a million times more powerful than chemical energy, for example). Scientists now say there is more energy in one cubic centimeter of empty space (about the size of a marble) than in all the matter of the known universe. Although scientists have not been able to measure this directly, they have seen the effects of this sea of immense energy.

Not only is there "space" between particles, but as scientists probed more deeply into the atom, they found that the sub-atomic particles(the constituents of the atoms) are not solid either. And they appear to have a dual nature. Depending on how we look at them, they can behave as either particles or as waves. Particles can be dexribed as separate, solid objects with specific locations in space. Waves, on the other hand, are not localized or solid, but are spread out, like sound waves or the waves in water.

As waves, electrons or photon(particles of light) have no precise location, but exist as "probability fields." As particles, the probability field "collapses" into a solid object locatable in a specific place and time.
Amazingly, what seems to make the difference is observation or measurement. Unmeasured, unobserved electrons behave as waves. As soon as we subject them to observation in an experiment, they "collapse" into a particle and can be located.
How can something be both a solid particle and a soft, flowing wave? Perhaps the paradox can be resolved by recalling what we said above: Particles behave as a wave or particle. But the "wave" is just an analogy. Just like "particle" is an analogy from our everyday world. This wave notion was solidified into quantum theory by Erwin Schrodinger, who with his famous "wave equation," summed up mathematically the wave-like probabilities of the particle before observation.
In an attempt to make it clear they don't really know what the BLEEP they're dealing with, but whatever it is they've never seen anything like it, some physicists have decided to call this phenomenon a "wavicle."

In studying the atom, scientists found that when electrons move from orbit to orbit around the nucleus, they do not move through space the way ordinary objects move--rather, they move instantaneously. That is, they disappear from one place , one place, one orbit, and appear in another. This was called the quantum jump. As if that didn't break enough rules of commonsense reality, they also discovered that they could not determine exactly where the electrons would appear, or when they would jump. The best they could do was formulate the prbabilities(Scrodinger's wave equation) of an electron's new location. "Reality as we experience it is constantly being created freshly at every moment, out of this pool pf possibilites," says Dr. Satinover, "but the real mysteriousness in this is that out of that pool of possibilities, which one is the one that is gonna happen is determined by nothing that's part of the physical universe. There is no process that makes that happen."
Or as is often stated: Qunatum events are the only truly random events in the universe.
When a subatomic "object" is in its wave state, what it will become when it is observed and becomes located is uncertain. It exists in a state of multiple possibilities. This state is called superposition. It is like flipping a coin in a dark room. Mathematically , evenafter it has l;anded on the table, we can't say whether it is heads or tails. As soon as the light goes on, we "collapse" the superposition, and the coin becomes heads or tails. Like turningon a light, measurement of the wave collapses the quantum mechanical superposition, and the particle appears in a measurable, "classical" state. Page 56-58 What the bleep do we know, chapter quantum physics.

Now, science hasn;t even got a full grip on the physical world, how can it even begin to imagine that it can say without doubt that PSI has no place in the universe??? The world is so illogical and illusory how can we say anything about the universe in an absolute sense???
I believe whether scientific or not EVERYTHING exists and can happen.There is no possibility no matter how "out there" it sounds that doesn't exist, PSI and SCIENCE are interconnected and one! Not separate like descartes would say. The observer has an affect on the observed and vice versa, they are one and the same and there apparent separateness is only apparent, that is to say an illusion.

I'll leave you with a cool quote: Deep in the human unconsciousness is a pervasive need for a universe that makes sense. But the universe is always one step beyond logic.---Muad'Dib


Posted Image
The man of science is a poor philosopher.
---Albert Einstein

<a href="http://funkyflea.deviantart.com" target="_blank">http://funkyflea.deviantart.com


#8    brave_new_world

brave_new_world

    Peasant love child

  • Member
  • 6,842 posts
  • Joined:25 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western Australia

  • My men like satyrs grazing on the lawns, shall with their goat-feet dance the antic hay. --Marlowe

Posted 10 December 2006 - 03:29 AM

wink2.gif

Edited by brave_new_world, 10 December 2006 - 03:30 AM.

Posted Image
The man of science is a poor philosopher.
---Albert Einstein

<a href="http://funkyflea.deviantart.com" target="_blank">http://funkyflea.deviantart.com


#9    mdhmdhmdh

mdhmdhmdh

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Joined:08 Jun 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:australia

Posted 10 December 2006 - 03:43 AM

as a uote from someone wel known that i cant think of right now "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic " this is just that in action in that the belivers dont understand the technology of thermodynamics so they think is magic .and its also like the esp,telekenisis and remote vuieing the majourity of the population of the world dosent understand the science of the mind over matter thing so they think its magic sorry for ranting a bit .


#10    Jjbreen

Jjbreen

    Government Agent

  • Closed
  • 3,868 posts
  • Joined:24 Sep 2006

  • Time is the teller of all tales great and small.

Posted 10 December 2006 - 04:01 AM

BMW -

Ok interesting rant that had nothing to do with what I posted as the topic.

I have stated so many times:

Do I accept Psi as valid and real - YES
... .examples that I have sighted:  Remote Viewing. Telepathy between twins. (An excellent web-link was sighted in 99.5% failure...) There are other psi abilities that I have agreed is valid also.

But - what this focal point is: Pin Wheel proving "Psi" - I am specifically showing a sight (YouTube) that a "believer" posted to show "Psi" at work. I used that to actually show, explain and prove that it was NOT "Psi" but Science. Even in post #1 pointed out exactly what to look for - that the pin-wheel was already moving counter clock wise before he even started the Psi Demo. He was moving the white paper wall.  I even pointed out why the pin-wheel was moving counter clock wise. The specific location of how the white wall was placed.

Please can we stick to the specific topic?? Is that really too much to ask for?

My point of this thread is to help understanding in that us "Evil Skeptics" have a reason for some of our doubts and questions. Real science is at play here. Laws that already have been well established, understood  and proven so many times that this was at one point even taught in Jr High Science classes.

Thanks - Jj

PS - Unlike the 99.5% thread - I am going to push that this thread will stay on focus.  I would ask that that be respected please... Thanks.  yes.gif


#11    ssjtin

ssjtin

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 217 posts
  • Joined:26 Nov 2006

Posted 10 December 2006 - 04:05 AM

Brave new world quit trying to overwhelm people with big words and concepts they won't understand.  You don't look smart.  It's irrelevant.  Your quotes don't impress anybody.  

Of course science hasn't fully understood the physical world.  That's why scientists still have jobs.  That's why they're still researching and experimenting to gain more knowledge.  What's your reasoning for believing that psi is real?  "Oh, science doesn't fully understand everything about everything, therefore psi must exist"

The world isn't illogical and illusory.  Everything that can be explained has been explained by scienc, and everything that cannot be explained will be explained by science.


#12    brave_new_world

brave_new_world

    Peasant love child

  • Member
  • 6,842 posts
  • Joined:25 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western Australia

  • My men like satyrs grazing on the lawns, shall with their goat-feet dance the antic hay. --Marlowe

Posted 10 December 2006 - 05:30 AM

Quote

The world isn't illogical and illusory.  Everything that can be explained has been explained by scienc, and everything that cannot be explained will be explained by science.


You just made a big fool of yourself there.

Posted Image
The man of science is a poor philosopher.
---Albert Einstein

<a href="http://funkyflea.deviantart.com" target="_blank">http://funkyflea.deviantart.com


#13    Jjbreen

Jjbreen

    Government Agent

  • Closed
  • 3,868 posts
  • Joined:24 Sep 2006

  • Time is the teller of all tales great and small.

Posted 10 December 2006 - 06:24 AM

BNW & ssjtin

Please kindly take your difference to Private Message between yourself. Please -  yes.gif

I would like to keep this thread focued on the topic of post #1 -   thumbsup.gif

Thanks again,  Jj


#14    3rd rock resident alien

3rd rock resident alien

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,673 posts
  • Joined:24 Mar 2006

Posted 10 December 2006 - 06:50 AM

PSI vs SCI. It shows the reason why it is hard for you to  believe.  It should be PSI and SCI. Anyway, you can go ahead with your versus.

The  Holy Council of the Conscious Gods
God in Real time. Almighty Supernatural Mega Spiritual Life Giver
In the absence of your god, Almighty Sun will always be with you.
Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. How I Wonder What You Are.

#15    Atheist God

Atheist God

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,438 posts
  • Joined:10 Jul 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Winnipeg, Canadistan

  • At war with the evil Drug Enforcement Agency for over a decade!

Posted 10 December 2006 - 09:45 AM

Even if psi energy could'nt be isolated there would be something to measure. Look at gravity for example we know it exists because we can measure it even though we cannot detect the theoretical 'graviton' or graviton waves something holds us down on the planet and keeps us in orbit around the sun.

If psi existed there would be something we could measure or observe as in the case of gravity but there isn't. Lot's of people say it exists and they can utilize it to move objects. I however do not beleive they can nor do I beleive psi exists. See if it did someone would willingly step up to the plate and demonstrate in controlled conditions. Out of all the millions who say they can do this why hasn't anyone?

Science has already declared that such an energy cannot exist based on the simple fact that NO evidence outside the realm of 'faith' exists.


Quote

No perceptual judgement can ever be made with complete certainty.---Werner Heisenberg
I agree with this but what the comment above states is that there is always a possibility. Now there is a possibility you may walk through a wall but the real question is what are the chances. I am willing to bet the possibility is so slim I would'nt count on it happening.

Quote

What quantum theory has reaveled is so mind-boggling that it sounds more like science fiction: Particles may be in two or more places at once.(A very recent experiment found that one particle could be in up to 3,000 places!) The same "object" may appear to be a particle, locatable in one place, or a wave, spread out over space and time.
Einstien said that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, but quantum physics has demonstrated that subatomic particles seem to communicate instantaneously over any expanse of space.


This justifies psi how exactly? Just because something can be in 2 places at once or 3000 is not indicative nor evidence of psi.

Quote

Well, not really. That supposed "emptiness" is not empty at all: It contains enormous quantities of subtle, powerful energy. We know energy increases as we go subtler levels of matter(nuvlear energy being a million times more powerful than chemical energy, for example). Scientists now say there is more energy in one cubic centimeter of empty space (about the size of a marble) than in all the matter of the known universe. Although scientists have not been able to measure this directly, they have seen the effects of this sea of immense energy.
I won't argue again'st this does not explain psi powers either. While quantum physics is amazing using psi to bend a spoon is energy manipulation and the energy being transferred in such a process has never been observed, measured or documented.

Quote


Now, science hasn;t even got a full grip on the physical world, how can it even begin to imagine that it can say without doubt that PSI has no place in the universe??? The world is so illogical and illusory how can we say anything about the universe in an absolute sense???

Electricity travells through copper wire I can safely say this is an absolute. I am also absolutly sure that i typed this message. I say psi does not exist because outside the realm of beleif as stated earlier there is nothing to suggest it's existence.

Quote

I believe whether scientific or not EVERYTHING exists and can happen.There is no possibility no matter how "out there" it sounds that doesn't exist, PSI and SCIENCE are interconnected and one! Not separate like descartes would say. The observer has an affect on the observed and vice versa, they are one and the same and there apparent separateness is only apparent, that is to say an illusion.
Not everything we can think of exists and quantum physics clearly states that it doesn't. However what it does state is that a 'chance' always exists. Yes there is infact a chance that psi exists but again as I have stated above what is that chance? Psi and science is not interconnected and there is no evidence nor proof outside of video to suggest otherwise.
============
QUOTE
PSI vs SCI. It shows the reason why it is hard for you to believe. It should be PSI and SCI. Anyway, you can go ahead with your versus.

If your only arguing point is the title of the thread then you have already lost the debate...
============

As for what the skeptics say here I agree thermodynamics and energy transfer are not supernatural and completely explainable. I still have yet to see anything suggest otherwise when it comes to 'mind over matter'.

Posted Image

A site I write my own articles. sw-gm check em out.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users