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PSI -vs- SCI


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#451    praeter

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 05:16 AM

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Ok, I see that you just joined today. I would think if you are trying to emulate a Vulcan, you need to seriously work harder at it, please. Other wise maybe change your 'icon' to Homer Simpson. wink2.gif  Because a Vulcan would have gone over the existing data first before he made such a random post like this...

The history and reason for the above challenge is that several teens and on 20 yr old tried to pass of Science (thermodynamics) off as "Psi" - when it was exposed - they the Pin (Psi) Wheel believers got a tad 'pissed off'. They were certain the Pin Wheel could validate Telekinetic abilities. Well in order for that to happen, they would have to remove any and all science cause/effect.

Then I was asked back in late Nov 2006, what it would take to create a valid Pin Wheel demo to prove T/K - thus the Challenge. There was one attempt that failed because they found in order to pull of their scam - they had to cut serious corners in the established and agreed upon protocols. They not only failed - they finally admitted what everyone knew - it was a scam. They called it a "social experiment".   rolleyes.gif To rationalize a great number of post that were lies.

So the challenge was set - that IF someone wanted to use the Pin Wheel to validate T/K - these are the steps that would be needed to assure no illusion, tricks, photo editing and such were at play. Something YouTube and Google Video are flooded with. But nothing that even comes close to being credible or valid proof of T/K.


Jjbreen, you are quite condescending and insulting. I honestly did not expect you to respond to my thread with an Ad-Hominae, which I do believe is in voilation of one of the guildelines for this forum. IMHO the contest is silly if not trivial, it does nothing to contribute to friendly and candid discussions about the various topics presented in UM. I thought that this was a forum that sought only to explore if not raise our understanding of the phenominas that are prevailant in society and until recently have taken center stage as part of our evolutionary process. So far all I have gathered are a number of requests for help by skeptics and non-believers followed by "off-the-cuff", slightly educated responses with little to no research at all by a majority of the respondents here in middle to senior standing.

Your response Dark Lotus is greatly appreciated and is what I've come to expect from the people at UM.



#452    DДrk_Lotu§

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 05:27 AM

I would like to say that this forum is not only about raising our understanding in certain beliefs it is also for discussing and DEBATING said beliefs. This test may not be something you agree with, i see it as a way to scientifically show the impossibility or possibility of so called psi abilities.

J may come off as frustrating (or whatever you would like to call it) but it is frustrating for all of us having to continually point out the science against psi while the believers only tell experiences and nothing more, it's frustrating for both sides I'm sure but this thread was created for those believers to show us disbelievers wrong and so far only a handful have stepped up while the rest have not. I am not defending J I'm trying to defend the science whatever J has said to you is between the both of you but please shall we keep it as civil as possible?

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#453    praeter

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 05:59 AM

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I would like to say that this forum is not only about raising our understanding in certain beliefs it is also for discussing and DEBATING said beliefs. This test may not be something you agree with, i see it as a way to scientifically show the impossibility or possibility of so called psi abilities.

J may come off as frustrating (or whatever you would like to call it) but it is frustrating for all of us having to continually point out the science against psi while the believers only tell experiences and nothing more, it's frustrating for both sides I'm sure but this thread was created for those believers to show us disbelievers wrong and so far only a handful have stepped up while the rest have not. I am not defending J I'm trying to defend the science whatever J has said to you is between the both of you but please shall we keep it as civil as possible?


I see your point Lotus, but the difference here is that you did not go out of your way to state your opinion by first insulting the audience and then providing a response. I felt that I was not given the respect as a contributer to these discussions. I am not thin skinned in the area of debate, but my respect for you will diminish significantly if insults are your way of parrying in a debate. So far you have been the only observable individual that could conduct themselves in a respectful manner in a debate. Unfortunately I am now disgusted with this forum as I have lost more than I have gained through the seemingly egotistical challenges, statements and downright insults made by both the PSI and SCI community here. IMHO this thread is contaminating the very fabric of what I perceived UM to stand for and should be closed if there is truly no supporting evidence in favor of the PSI group. I do not need see the need to kick a dead horse proverbially speaking after the challenge was posted.  angry.gif


#454    Jjbreen

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Posted 26 July 2007 - 04:57 PM

Quote

Jjbreen, you are quite condescending and insulting. I honestly did not expect you to respond to my thread with an Ad-Hominae, which I do believe is in voilation of one of the guildelines for this forum. IMHO the contest is silly if not trivial, it does nothing to contribute to friendly and candid discussions about the various topics presented in UM. I thought that this was a forum that sought only to explore if not raise our understanding of the phenominas that are prevailant in society and until recently have taken center stage as part of our evolutionary process. So far all I have gathered are a number of requests for help by skeptics and non-believers followed by "off-the-cuff", slightly educated responses with little to no research at all by a majority of the respondents here in middle to senior standing.

Your response Dark Lotus is greatly appreciated and is what I've come to expect from the people at UM.

The Bold - isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?  blink.gif U'r first day here on UM and all you have done is use your alter ego and the Bible to put down threads. Hmm... Ok... well I guess it comes down, you can dish it out, but can't take what you dish. U've become a waste of time.


#455    Jjbreen

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 06:58 AM

To the Person that PM'd me about the $1,000.00 challenge. This is the thread it's posted on. Click on the below Hyper-Link and it will take you the specific post:

The $1,000.00 Challenge


#456    Jjbreen

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 02:09 AM

Another PM asking where the challenge is --- Click on the Link below in the quote box....

Why do I have a feeling this one will bow out too ... as did the person below: and I quote -> This isn't fair!! You've made it so no one can prove Telekinesis!!  ....> NO - I've actually made it so that if someone does do it w/the rules - they HAVE proved Telekinesis and NOT a S C A M!  Geesh.....

Quote

To the Person that PM'd me about the $1,000.00 challenge. This is the thread it's posted on. Click on the below Hyper-Link and it will take you the specific post:

The $1,000.00 Challenge




#457    Tuas

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 08:48 PM

It's fun to see James Randi-fans follow in his footsteps with these challenges... ^^ Although, if Randi's 1,000,000 USD isn't tempting any of these big boys, then I doubt your 1,000 USD will either.

Someday I would be thrilled to hear one of these talkers explain what kind of logic in their right mind is trying to say that an "unlocked" brain could do neat tricks. It's a damned ball of flesh filled with grey cells and synapses! What would greater control over them accomplish?? Have any of these TK-blibs actually seen a person who uses more of his/her brain capacity than an average person? They're clinically INSANE, for crying out loud!

Let's hope that the people who believe in telekinesis, telepathy and blah blah (I can't even bother to touch the list) actually found a way to use more of their brain. They'd come to take them away, ha-ha~ ho-ho~ he-he~ to the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time!

Keep up the good work, Jjbreen and everyone else! ^^


#458    fenrir99

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 05:49 PM

Deleted

Edited by fenrir99, 27 August 2007 - 06:03 PM.


#459    Jjbreen

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 05:22 PM

To the PM that asked me for this -

This is the Thread w/the $1,000.00 Challenge for the Psi Wheel to prove the existance of Telekinetic Abilities .... Just click on the Blue $1,000.00 Link


#460    Atheist God

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 05:50 PM

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thought that this was a forum that sought only to explore if not raise our understanding of the phenominas that are prevailant in society and until recently have taken center stage as part of our evolutionary process.


TK and all these other supposed phenomena are pure fantasy, there has never been nor ever will be any evidence and those making the claims will never back them up. If we are to increase our understanding of unknown phenomena let's make sure the phenomena actually exists. Secondly we need to get rid of these either lying or nutty people here who say they do exist. Some things are in fact impossible, moving things with you mind for example or turning water into a frozen ice cube etc. Some things are possible and probable for example UFO's or some of the crypto's on this site etc.
But superpowers like stuff we see in comic books is pure and utter horsesh*t.

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#461    Derac Smi

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 11:47 PM

SCI vs PSI. Molecules down to atoms down to ions down to smaller bits equates to nothing but pure, measurable energy. So all in all, to me, all is but an energy placed in perfect order that makes up the whole cosmos. In reality, even the keyboards we use to type all these responses to this thread are physical matters (solid) yet in their most basic essence they're just but bounded and interconnected energies. Whatever form of energy is nothing but energy, I dare not temp neither believers nor skeptics to expound, but energy is something tangible yet not solid. To me, SCI is just a standard we use against things we currently have knowledge of, and the things we perceive that we might understand fully. PSI, in relation to SCI, to most is also an energy. PSI is unconventional, and unconventional knowledge is essential for SCI's growth. This is my take on the subject, and I salute all posters for one cannot exist without its counterpart and with both in existence can we have a better and clearer understanding of what divides us and what unites us.

Good and Evil, Black and White, Yin and Yang, The Golden Rule, Positive and Negative, Protons and Electrons, Matter and Anti-Matter. Fill in the blanks if you must, but admit it that you need the other side to validate your own. Hell is paved with good intentions, try not to hold down to something too much that might drag you down someday. Again, more power to all.

Edited by Derac Smi, 24 September 2007 - 12:25 AM.




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#462    inkblot

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Posted 26 September 2007 - 07:54 PM

Yeah, I agree. Just like you need to understand how fire works before you make it, or understand how to digest food before you eat it, or exactly why plants need fertilizer before you give it to them.

I believe that some psychic abilities exist, but the psi wheel is bull, and anyone who has them (and probably is not a teenager, because most people who try to be psychic spend years at it) wouldn't reveal themselves.

Edited by inkblot, 26 September 2007 - 08:20 PM.


#463    Derac Smi

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 12:24 AM

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Yeah, I agree. Just like you need to understand how fire works before you make it, or understand how to digest food before you eat it, or exactly why plants need fertilizer before you give it to them.

I believe that some psychic abilities exist, but the psi wheel is bull, and anyone who has them (and probably is not a teenager, because most people who try to be psychic spend years at it) wouldn't reveal themselves.



Same merit goes as to why no one has stepped-up to Jerry J's $$ challenge yet. Why not try challenging the ones who are more informed about the issues in question, like people who hold Ph.D degrees who are known and respected within their field yet has conducted scientific experiments that seems or has proven the reality of the paranormal. NDE's accounts to some of these controlled studies. Believers posting here are not as "informed" as the people I am implying, and that they do not have neither the time nor the resources at their disposal to satisfy  skeptic's question. I feel that if the challenge is directed towards the more "informed", the results will be greatly beneficial to both skeptics and believers. Just a thought, nothing more.

More power Inkblot!

Edited by Derac Smi, 27 September 2007 - 12:25 AM.




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#464    Jjbreen

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 12:31 AM

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Yeah, I agree. Just like you need to understand how fire works before you make it, or understand how to digest food before you eat it, or exactly why plants need fertilizer before you give it to them.

I believe that some psychic abilities exist, but the psi wheel is bull, and anyone who has them (and probably is not a teenager, because most people who try to be psychic spend years at it) wouldn't reveal themselves.

I find it amazing how many people will come up with 'excuses' as to why people will not step and take challenges, like my $1,000.00 challenge... seems it's easier to rationalize and excuse for someone not to step up then get fed up w/the lame excuses and actually start holding people accountable.  

But then excuses are easier to come up with then to actually be accountable, credible and straight forward ....  I guess having an Honest Character with Integrity is just too much to ask for, huh?


#465    inkblot

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 08:16 PM

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I find it amazing how many people will come up with 'excuses' as to why people will not step and take challenges, like my $1,000.00 challenge... seems it's easier to rationalize and excuse for someone not to step up then get fed up w/the lame excuses and actually start holding people accountable.  

But then excuses are easier to come up with then to actually be accountable, credible and straight forward ....  I guess having an Honest Character with Integrity is just too much to ask for, huh?

I'm not a psychic. (though I want to try astral projection. Even if it isn't real, I get lucid dreaming as a consolation prize!) Even if I believed psychic powers existed, it wouldn't be worth my time. There's no point in moving a coffee mug with your mind if you can do it with your hands. Also, was the topic a pun on Spy Vs. Spy? Because that's a great metaphor for the back-and-forth between the skeptics and the believers on here.

Derac Smi, could you give me some sources as to your information?

Edited by inkblot, 27 September 2007 - 10:14 PM.





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