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Poll: Is the government evil or stupid ? (19 member(s) have cast votes)

Is the government evil or stupid ?

  1. Evil !!! They wan't to control us to a full extent ! (9 votes [47.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.37%

  2. Stupid !!! They dont know how to run this country at all ! (2 votes [10.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.53%

  3. a little of both ... (8 votes [42.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.11%

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#1    Xenojjin

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 03:16 PM

   The joy of it . I am making this poll as I said I would in the DARE conspiracy topic . original.gif  

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#2    Seraphina

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 04:04 PM

I thought a little of both...while most of what the US government does shows absolute lunacy, I do believe they're also out for number one to a certain extent, and do seem to spend a great deal of time telling US citizens a very different story from what's actually going on tongue.gif

The fact that said US citizens so zealously defend them seems to show it works just fine.

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#3    Phantom

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 04:57 PM

You're talking about the Antartican government here? USA? Scottish ? Global (?) government?

Shouldn't you include an option: This Poll Is Biased Or Stupid (Or A Little Of Both)?

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#4    Seraphina

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 05:10 PM

When has stupidity ever stood in the way of conspiracy theories? huh.gif  

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#5    reese2

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:04 PM

Seraphina-


Once again, instead of making blanket statements about a Government and it's policies, which you do not live under, give me something that I can sink my teeth into....  

QUOTE
and do seem to spend a great deal of time telling US citizens a very different story from what's actually going on 


Oh come on girl, you have got to hook me up!!!!  You obviously have some information on what's really going down, so please, elighten me, and all the other misled, misinformed Americans here.....    I am just so surprised that an 18 year old, that studies Biology, I believe, at a University in Scotland, knows more about our policies and goings on, than we do ourselves.....  I am soooo impressed...


Seraphina, I actually dig your posts most of the time.  (And, I know some people do as well)  I find them to be informative, and yourself, quite intelligent.. But, I have to say, that personality of yours kicks in, and rubs me the wrong way...  You have the charisma, of a dry piece of toast.  You come off as a know it all, when you really have no life experience, and sadly, something that you don't get yet, that can affect someone's intelligence when it comes to debate life issues.  Such as punishment for crimes, Government policy....


See, that is why, this isn't the 'Bush' show here...  When you crack on his IQ, it makes you look like an idiot, because he doesn't run this country alone...   He stands on the backs of all his collective advisors, each coming from a diverse background, and bringing their own life experiences to the table......

Life experience adds to your intelligence....   It enables you to think outside the box, and look at all aspects before coming to a conclusive answer to anything.

You do not do that.  That sadly, comes with life, and you haven't had enough of it, crammed in a University, to make a difference to me.


I shouldn't have to tell you that people can be book smart, but extremely ignorant when it comes to social skills.   (That of which you lack)  

I stand by what I said though, you do seem extremely intelligent, but no one is hearing that.  

When it comes to a question of Biology, you go girl, my hat tips to you, for I am extremely ill informed.........  But, when you talk Government policy, or what is right or wrong with our system here, you fall short girl.. All you have are the opinions of others' that you have attached yourself to, with no real credible reason on behalf of yourself.....  You don't vote here, you don't pay taxes here..  have you ever even been here?  If you answer no to these, then how can you ever imagine that you, would have an insight into anything that takes place here?  Do you read materials from your media?


I am so interested to find out what information you have that could show us that our Government is giving us a different story, about what is really going on...  Could you please elaborate on that for me...  I am not asking because I don't want to believe you, what I am asking for, is for something substantial, that will change my mind.  I welcome that, on any level.  I want to believe in the most outlandish stories about conspiracies, but being that I am smart (a little) I just can't believe something, without taking the time to make sure it is solid...  (Since most conspiracies cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, I would take, compelling evidence just to sway on one side or the other)

Here in the US, we believe that someone is innnocent, until proven guilty.  So, if you want me to bash any organization, which I would gladly do, you have to be able to convince me of it.



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#6    Seraphina

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:29 PM

Well since you asked...here, for example, is what Nancy said is going on in Iraq (presumably told by your government)

QUOTE
What have we accomplished so far in Iraq? Power restored, hospitals open, women in the work force, children back in school, businesses opening left and right, among the many improvements in a very, VERY short period of time.


The U.S.-led occupation of Iraq, sold by President Bush as a smooth road to Iraqi freedom is actually turning into a nightmare for both the Iraqi people, and the occupation forces. US soldiers are being killed almost daily, with the largest death tole since the entire affair began occuring only a couple of days ago.

Iraqi opposition to the occupation is widespread among both Sunnis and Shias, and is not limited to Saddam Hussein supporters as the Bush administration and media have claimed. When a Shia cleric in Najaf called for supporters to demonstrate against American control, thousands took to the streets in one of many such demonstrations throughout Iraq since the occupation began.

According to IraqBodyCount.net (last time I checked) the number of civilian cassualties has risen to 6113...there's progress for you rolleyes.gif Having checked, it's actually risen to between 7000 and 9000 now.

During the power outage, leaving hospitals and homes without power, Iain Pickard, a British occupation official, slammed the U.S. for moving slowly to restore power. "All the repair work has been done by Iraqis, and none by the U.S.A.," he complained.

Instead, the U.S. has focused on its own priorities - securing the profitable oil fields and searching desperately for Saddam and his supposed weapons of mass destruction in order to justify America's drive to war.

On August 13, international labor groups also criticized the U.S. for detaining 34 union leaders without cause, demonstrating that the US will attempt to prevent the development of an independent Iraqi trade union movement.

In the Sunni town of Fallujah, U.S. soldiers fired on a crowd of Iraqi protesters, killing 18 and wounding 78; within a week, several civilians demonstrating against the deaths were also killed. The backlash was so severe that the troops were forced to compensate the families of the victims - $1500 per death, $500 per injury.

The instability in Iraq and the coming U.S. elections are pushing Bush to urgently set up some sort of Iraqi government. But the current Governing Council - never elected by the Iraqi people, handpicked by the U.S., and made up largely of former exiles close to the U.S.

Things in Iraq are "not that dire," a Bush administration official recently commented in the New York Times. But many Americans disagree, with 43% saying that the occupation is not going well, compared with 13% in May. Twenty-five percent of respondents in a recent Gallup poll want the troops out now, and another 33% said they should return home if casualties continue.

I might also point out that women already WERE in work in Iraq, as I've frequently stated, it's not a fundamentalist country. However, as the Shia are beginning to grow in strength with Saddam gone, they probably won't be for long, as they are tongue.gif The Shia are the anti western ideology that rule in Iraq. Heck, I'm pretty sure the Iraqi ambasador to the U.S.A WAS a woman before all this huh.gif

Now...I don't know how much of that was printed in the US press, or admitted by the government...buy hey, we got it tongue.gif so did most other countries.

Don't you find it suspect that everyone is is telling one story about how bad things are in Iraq, and the US government tells a completely different story? It's not like the UK even has a bone to pick with the US, we've been your closest allies through this tongue.gif

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#7    saxcatz

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:45 PM

QUOTE (Seraphina @ Nov 13 2003, 07:04 AM)
I thought a little of both...while most of what the US government does shows absolute lunacy, I do believe they're also out for number one to a certain extent, and do seem to spend a great deal of time telling US citizens a very different story from what's actually going on tongue.gif

The fact that said US citizens so zealously defend them seems to show it works just fine.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Seraphina decides to spread hatred and ignorance again today.  No matter what the topic, she WILL find a way to PISS EVERYONE OFF and spread her baseless lies. rolleyes.gif
My vote goes for stupid.

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#8    saxcatz

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:48 PM

Apparantly, Seraphina never stopped to, even for a second, consider that maybe it's HER government and the oh-so-glamorous governments of "Old Europe" that are spreading the lies to further thier best interests.
Oh no!  THEY could NEVER be wrong. rolleyes.gif
Not saying that they are; but did you ever consider that YOUR sources might be the ones that are wrong???  Of course not... thumbsup.gif  

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#9    Seraphina

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:49 PM

geez...*scratches the back of her head* and to think...when I said "zealot" they said I was making it up huh.gif

True, true, my sources could be wrong...I'm not above accepting that (though obviously you're above accepting that yours could be tongue.gif) However, when more than one unrelated source tells the same story and a single source is telling another, that's when you need to ask questions, no?

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#10    saxcatz

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:49 PM

I do not believe that the Iraqi ambassador was a woman.  Does anyone have the time to look it up and find out?

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#11    saxcatz

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:53 PM

QUOTE (Seraphina @ Nov 13 2003, 09:49 AM)
geez...*scratches the back of her head* and to think...when I said "zealot" they said I was making it up huh.gif

Since all your arguments have been based on the fallacies of ad hominem, prove me wrong, and arguing from ignorance...  I'm going to digress; since reasoning with you is pointless.
You are an ignorant, conceited, baseless fool.  You need to take a step back, come down from your horse, and live in a world where people other than you have opinions and facts other than the ones that you have been innundated with do exist.  
We've admitted our faults... I've yet to see you admit yours.
Ok, I've come down to your level.  I wonder if I look as foolish as you now.
*Seraphina edited her post while I was typing this.*

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#12    saxcatz

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:56 PM

QUOTE (Seraphina @ Nov 13 2003, 09:49 AM)
geez...*scratches the back of her head* and to think...when I said "zealot" they said I was making it up huh.gif

True, true, my sources could be wrong...I'm not above accepting that (though obviously you're above accepting that yours could be tongue.gif) However, when more than one unrelated source tells the same story and a single source is telling another, that's when you need to ask questions, no?

You're operating off the (incorrect) assumption that only US news sources are telling "our" story.  This is not true; the stories are splintered throughout the world.  Undoubtedly, there is much truth in both stories.  Unfortunately, you still portray the attitude that your sources are clearly correct and that no other sources could contain more (or any) of the truth... you even refuse to see the reports from your own and other news sources that tell you anything you don't want to hear.  Sad.  I hope you never went to university...

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#13    Seraphina

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 06:57 PM

Excuse me? When have I said I'm above fault? I stated an alternative opinion, someone asked for how I supported that opinion, and I did.

You, in reply, call me narrow minded, concieted, and so on and so forth. Obviously, you're not all that accepting of alternative view points tongue.gif

I'm actually pretty critial of the UK government's handling of the situation in Iraq as well as the US's. In the long run, I don't doubt they'll be better off...however, it doesn't matter on the issue here, and that is that they're making a complete mess of the occupation, and don't seem to be giving all the facts about how badly they're going about it rolleyes.gif

And I am in Universtity, thankyou tongue.gif

If you disagree with me, then hell, go right ahead. Break down my arguement with facts. If all you're going to respond with is agression, and telling me how stupid I am, then you're not really mature enough to debate with me huh.gif  

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#14    moe eubleck

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 07:02 PM

QUOTE (saxcatz @ Nov 13 2003, 05:49 PM)
I do not believe that the Iraqi ambassador was a woman.  Does anyone have the time to look it up and find out?

I think this may help. its part on an article I found, yes i have no life.  tongue.gif
Having served as U.S. ambassador to Iraq since 1987, Glaspie unexpectedly found herself on July 25, 1990 meeting for the first time with Iraqi President Saddam Hussain in Baghdad. She knew Saddam never received foreign ambassadors but there she was just the same, sitting across the desk from the Iraqi strongman.

Glaspie’s own career odyssey as the first American woman ambassador to an Arab country was itself an improbable tale. When she entered the Foreign Service in 1966, her chances as a woman of becoming an ambassador were virtually nil. The State Department “culture” was against it.

Somewhere along the way, however, the Department “discovered” that it had very few woman ambassadors, and even fewer deputy chiefs of missions (DCMs, or deputy ambassadors). So the gender gap was narrowed, and Glaspie, who had an outstanding record (DCM in Damascus and a top political reporting officer citation for 1975), was sent to Baghdad as U.S. ambassador.


Notice : " the first American woman ambassador to an Arab country "

I think this may help your belief.  

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#15    saxcatz

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Posted 13 November 2003 - 07:06 PM

QUOTE (Seraphina @ Nov 13 2003, 09:57 AM)
Excuse me? When have I said I'm above fault? I stated an alternative opinion, someone asked for how I supported that opinion, and I did.

You, in reply, call me narrow minded, concieted, and so on and so forth. Obviously, you're not all that accepting of alternative view points tongue.gif

I'm actually pretty critial of the UK government's handling of the situation in Iraq as well as the US's. In the long run, I don't doubt they'll be better off...however, it doesn't matter on the issue here, and that is that they're making a complete mess of the occupation, and don't seem to be giving all the facts about how badly they're going about it rolleyes.gif

A.) Your SIGNATURE; just for one.
B.) I am accepting of others opinions when they are accepting of mine... I do not feel that I have to accept the opinions of another who is not willing to listen to my own.  I listened to you and respected your opinions until you began to piss me off on a regular basis.  It is your unwillingness to accept, address, or otherwise deal with other's opinions that makes you ignorant and concieted.
C.) I agree that they're making a complete mess of the situation in Iraq.  And disagree with you in saying that the US media hasn't portrayed this.  They have, quite well.  The problem with the media you're subscribing to is it's bias.  The US media both assaults the US for it's mistakes, and pats it on the back for it's accomplishments.  The European media, on the other hand, seems to crucify the US for it's mistakes, and either brush over or completely ignore it's accomplishments.
I can roll my eyes all day long too, but it won't accomplish anything.

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