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Moon landing was fake


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#151    MID

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 08:38 PM

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Wow, Waspie...I salute your impeccable logic here. notworthy.gif




Me too.   Much appreciated dissection there, Waspie. thumbsup.gif

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The Russian technology listed above did NOT include any MANNED missions to the moon or into lunar orbit , for one simple reason ... They knew it couldn't be done .... Why would Russia stop their space program and let the Americans beat them to the moon when they were so far ahead in technology throughout the entire space program ?
Stray,
The Soviets, as has been pointed out to you by Waspie, and by some others previously, did not stop their program.   The rushed headlong in an attempt to beat the Americans, who the Soviets knew by the mid-1960s were well on their way to sucessfully completing their program...ahead of them.  Often they rushed beyond reasonability, and had problems as a result...which is the result of a military-dominated, politician run project.  The U.S.  effort was managed of course by a government agency, but the White House was not calling any shots...they allowed NASA and the contractors to do their work, as they saw fit, since they were the experts.

You mentioned a bunch of firsts in the Soviet program, which are true.   However, saying that no manned flights to the Moon were included, and somehow equating that to the U.S. program, you failed to mention the facts of American accomplishments in space, accomplishments which vaulted the U.S. into the lead in the Moon race.

This too has been pointed out to you.

Orbital plane changes, rendezvous and docking, orbital maneuvering, the mastery of EVA, long term space flight (pertinent to proposed lunar mission durations)...all American firsts, and of course, essential skills required to execute a lunar program as planned.  

The reason Americans flew to the Moon, and the Soviets didn't is not because they knew it couldn't be done, it was because the Americans systematically, and publicly mastered these techniques ahead of the Soviets.  We were ready to give it a shot before the Soviets.   Additionally, as has also been pointed out, the Soviet large booster program suffered greatly, and their capability to attempt a Moon mission was pretty much destroyed (as far as any race was concerned) in July 1969, just prior to the Apollo 11 mission, by yet another catastrophic disaster at Baikonur.  Of course, by that time, the manned race to the Moon had already be won by the U.S..

It appears that the Soviets were planning to launch a mission of their lunar package into Earth orbit for a shakedown, similar to our Apollo 9, which had flown sucessfully 4 months before.  At the same time, the Soviets knew we were planning a Moon landing mission.   I often wonder if they didn't have that disaster, if they'd have tried a lunar mission with that package, and by-passed a test flight of their lander in favor of the prize.  I shudder to think of that possibility.  But alas, it was not meant to be anyway, as the Soviets were just beginning to rebuild their facilities long after the first men to land on the Moon were back on Earth.

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NASA has led everyone ( including scientists ) to believe that space radiation is no big deal and that the Apollo astronauts sailed through the section of the belts where the radiation was the lowest .... They also sold everyone on the nonsense that just a wee bit of aluminum shielding would protect the astronauts from being deep fried while in the belts and on the moon ... Right .


This is just too tired and old.
It's like you've never done any homework at all.
Plastics.
Plastics...polyethylene and fibrous insulators are better than metals...


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Why would NASA be planning UNMANNED , then ROBOTIC , and then possibly manned missions to the moon , if they had already sent men there before ? .... NASA scientists don't even know what the radiation levels are on the lunar surface and are now finally admitting to that fact .
Also old and tired.
NASA is attempting to study cosmic radiation as pertains to the proposed long term missions to the lunar surface.  
We didn't need this type of information for Apollo, as they were not long term missions.

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I'm not going into this again because this has all been debated here before and it's not worth the bother of even trying to explain something which most of you refuse to believe anyway ....


But you did go into it again.
The fact is, you refuse to do your homework and research the actual facts.  You believe.  Most of us refuse to believe what you say...indeed, we endeavor to teach you what you lack in your knowledge base, and which explains the fallacy of all of your contentions very clearly.

On the contrary, it is not that we refuse to believe.   We simply do not believe you.   This is because many of us know things that you refuse to investigate and learn.




#152    straydog

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 09:45 PM

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Straydog, there's also this link:

http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content...rs/271/03.shtml

This is a first-hand Russian account of how they tracked the Apollo missions and verified that they really went to the moon.  If you can't speak Russian, run it through a translation program.



Too funny !  ... For all we know , that could be a Russian site explaining how the Apollo missions were faked ! ...The top officials of the Russian space program were obviously in the loop about Apollo being faked ...  and that's why no whistle blowing on their part has ever been done .... But when you think about it , who would believe them anyway , even if they did squeal ? ....  Everyone would just say it was sour grapes on their part .... No , this cover-up is even bigger than any of us can imagine ... and the alleged space race with Russia is even part of the lie and subsequent cover up .

I will have to hand it to all of the nasa defenders on this forum though ... Not only do all of you do LOADS of time consuming homework on this subject but you are also determinded , by any means necessary, to keep the lid on the Apollo hoax information from spreading any further than it already has .... So be it ... You can make fun of me and call me every name in the book and tell me I don't do my homework on this subject or that I contradict myself , but the bottom line is there are just too many holes in the official Apollo record for it to be the truth .... Not to mention , there is no real technical proof of nasa's claims of having landed astronauts the moon six times .

It will probably be a waste of time but I will post Hawkins' scientific findings proving that the lunar buggy couldn't have done what nasa claimed it did on the moon ....The scientific proof that the Apollo photography was faked , and could not possibly have been taken on the lunar surface or from lunar orbit ... and then the reasons why NO ONE who worked for NASA on the Apollo hoax has ever come forward and NEVER WILL COME FORWARD to the newspapers or the TV press with the proof that Apollo was a hoax .... It can't be done .... Period ... and Hawkins also has proven that .

There is very good reason for Charles T. Hawkins ( if that's even his real name ) to have kept such a low profile and kept himself hidden from public view .... I doubt after what I have read in his book , that Hawkins is even his real name and there could even be a possibility that whoever this guy is , he might not even still be alive after his exposure of nasa's many lies about the Apollo Program .

Edited by straydog, 31 December 2006 - 09:46 PM.

I would rather be in the minority and know the truth , than to be in the majority and be in denial of the truth .

#153    capeo

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 10:30 PM

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I doubt after what I have read in his book , that Hawkins is even his real name and there could even be a possibility that whoever this guy is , he might not even still be alive after his exposure of nasa's many lies about the Apollo Program .


Yeah, those NASA hitmen are wicked!

Seriously though, you haven't posted any worthy evidence of your theory.  Now our biggest world rival at the time was in on it too?  Too what end?  Did we threaten Brezhnev with those NASA hitmen so he'd be complicit in our grand plan?  What would the USSR have to gain from such a conspiracy?  Of course, now one has to come up with a conspiracy to explain that too.

Edited by capeo, 31 December 2006 - 10:31 PM.

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#154    Redtail

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 10:39 PM

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Too funny !  ... For all we know , that could be a Russian site explaining how the Apollo missions were faked ! ...The top officials of the Russian space program were obviously in the loop about Apollo being faked ...  and that's why no whistle blowing on their part has ever been done ....


Really? Explain please.


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But when you think about it , who would believe them anyway , even if they did squeal ? ....  Everyone would just say it was sour grapes on their part .... No , this cover-up is even bigger than any of us can imagine ... and the alleged space race with Russia is even part of the lie and subsequent cover up .


Unless they, being so far beyond us, could prove it.



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It will probably be a waste of time but I will post Hawkins' scientific findings proving that the lunar buggy couldn't have done what nasa claimed it did on the moon ....The scientific proof that the Apollo photography was faked , and could not possibly have been taken on the lunar surface or from lunar orbit ... and then the reasons why NO ONE who worked for NASA on the Apollo hoax has ever come forward and NEVER WILL COME FORWARD to the newspapers or the TV press with the proof that Apollo was a hoax .... It can't be done .... Period ... and Hawkins also has proven that .



K




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The day mankind kicked the moon
God help me... he was goin home in June...

#155    aquatus1

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 10:46 PM

Straydog, you realize the irony of asking for independant verification, and then claiming any independant verification is part of the conspiracy, don't you?  Do you understand what an unfalsifiable argument is (I explained it to you personally, several times).

Seriously, who would you trust to educate you in regards to Apollo?  Who would you trust, even if they told you that no conspiracy ever existed?


#156    MID

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 11:06 PM

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I will have to hand it to all of the nasa defenders on this forum though ... Not only do all of you do LOADS of time consuming homework on this subject but you are also determinded , by any means necessary, to keep the lid on the Apollo hoax information from spreading any further than it already has .... So be it ... You can make fun of me and call me every name in the book and tell me I don't do my homework on this subject or that I contradict myself , but the bottom line is there are just too many holes in the official Apollo record for it to be the truth .... Not to mention , there is no real technical proof of nasa's claims of having landed astronauts the moon six times .



This, is borderline childish.
We are determined, by the only means available, to teach you about the facts of this scientific program of exploration, which took place decades past and which you do not understand much about.   Perhaps we attempt this by any means necessary, but that's because you're incessantly ignoring that which is presented to you.

Also take careful note...

No one is calling you every name in the book.
I know your mindset is going to make you say that I just called you childish.  I did not, any more than I called you ridiculous or redundant previously.

What I address is your ideas, your obstinance, and your lack of doing your homework....it is your behavior, not YOU, that I address.  That is not a personal insult.  It is a comment about what you do...not about you personally.

Your attitude and understanding are obvious, based on this incessant statement that there are holes in the Apollo record, and that there is no technical proof of Apollo's success.

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It will probably be a waste of time but I will post Hawkins' scientific findings proving that the lunar buggy couldn't have done what nasa claimed it did on the moon ....The scientific proof that the Apollo photography was faked , and could not possibly have been taken on the lunar surface or from lunar orbit ... and then the reasons why NO ONE who worked for NASA on the Apollo hoax has ever come forward and NEVER WILL COME FORWARD to the newspapers or the TV press with the proof that Apollo was a hoax .... It can't be done .... Period ... and Hawkins also has proven that .
Well, we've been asking for that.
But I'm not too excited about it.   We've already addressed the "lunar buggy" at length, and the photographs were long ago shown to be...just photographs...of the Moon.  But maybe "Hawkins" has a new angle that hasn't been explored or tried by Sibrel, or Kaysing, or Percy, et.al...

But you are correct that it might be a waste of time, in that no actual scientist would ever seek to disprove what has been substantiated and agreed to world-wide as a scientific accomplishment of historic proportions.



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There is very good reason for Charles T. Hawkins ( if that's even his real name ) to have kept such a low profile and kept himself hidden from public view .... I doubt after what I have read in his book , that Hawkins is even his real name and there could even be a possibility that whoever this guy is , he might not even still be alive after his exposure of nasa's many lies about the Apollo Program .


We doubt it too.
But you see, this CT mentality has gone over the edge.  The NASA Police may have killed him, because of his revelations?

No, no more than they would bother to pay attention, let alone "take out" Bill Kaysing, or Percy, or the self-educated engineer, Mr. Rene, or Bart Sibrel.   These people have no scientific background, and prove it with their statements.

The efficacy of their statements paints them as silly, at best.  They're revealing nothing but their lack of knowledge, often a lack of basic knowledge.  There's no reason for NASA to pay any attention to them, as I'm sure there's no need for them to even address or pay any attention to this so-called scientist Hawkins.  

I am betting that what is revealed in this book is but a rehash of the same tired old ideas that have been corrected ad-nauseam on this forum, and others...


  



#157    KILLUMANATI

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 03:54 AM

Anyone see the new redbull commercial? the astronauts come out of the module with wings and cant complete the mission, They explain to HOUSTON that thay have wings, and are told to just return to earth and they will shoot the mission in a studio.....

I tried to youtube and google it but it's not yet available. This site will let you see it for 5 bux LOL what a joke--> http://commercial-archive.com/131166.php

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ONE NATION UNDER MOLECH-GOD BLESS AMERICA INC.

#158    Raptorial

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 04:36 AM

MID has said more than I could ever say on the matter. Bravo M, bravo indeed.

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#159    Obviousman

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 04:43 AM

(Moved from closed thread)

There was an interesting point raised by Straydog in another thread: that we have no direct evidence that people walked on the Moon save the astronauts who were there.

But they do claim to have been there. I present a list for Straydog's consideration:

PERSONS WHO HAVE CLAIMED TO HAVE BEEN IN LUNAR ORBIT
Frank Borman (Apollo 8)
Jim Lovell (Apollo 8, Apollo 13)
Bill Anders (Apollo 8)
Tom Stafford (Apollo 10)
John Young (Apollo 10, Apollo 16)
Gene Cernan (Apollo 10, Apollo 17)
Mike Collins (Apollo 11)
Buzz Aldrin (Apollo 11)
Neil Armstrong (Apollo 11)
Al Bean (Apollo 12)
Dick Gordon (Apollo 12)
Pete Conrad (Apollo 12)
Fred Haise (Apollo 13)
Jack Swigert (Apollo 13)
Ed Mitchell (Apollo 14)
Stu Roosa (Apollo 14)
Al Shepard (Apollo 14)
Dave Scott (Apollo 15)
Jim Irwin (Apollo 15)
Al Worden (Apollo 15)
Ken Mattingly (Apollo 16)
Charlie Duke (Apollo 16)
Jack Schmitt (Apollo 17)
Ron Evans (Apollo 17)

PERSONS WHO HAVE CLAIMED TO HAVE WALKED ON THE LUNAR SURFACE
Neil Armstrong (Apollo 11)
Buzz Aldrin (Apollo 11)
Pete Conrad (Apollo 12)
Al Bean (Apollo 12)
Al Shepard (Apollo 14)
Ed Mitchell (Apollo 14)
Dave Scott (Apollo 15)
Jim Irwin (Apollo 15)
John Young (Apollo 16)
Charlie Duke (Apollo 16)
Gene Cernan (Apollo 17)
Jack Schmitt (Apollo 17)

So, Straydog, it is your position that these people are lying? A clear answer indicating YES or NO, please.



#160    postbaguk

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 05:11 AM

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Too funny !  ... For all we know , that could be a Russian site explaining how the Apollo missions were faked ! ...The top officials of the Russian space program were obviously in the loop about Apollo being faked ...  and that's why no whistle blowing on their part has ever been done .... But when you think about it , who would believe them anyway , even if they did squeal ? ....  Everyone would just say it was sour grapes on their part .... No , this cover-up is even bigger than any of us can imagine ... and the alleged space race with Russia is even part of the lie and subsequent cover up .


And so the circle of people who were in on the fake widens ever more - we now need to include the Russians! C'mon stray, admit it, you're pulling our collective legs here. Surely even you don't believe this claptrap?

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I will have to hand it to all of the nasa defenders on this forum though ... Not only do all of you do LOADS of time consuming homework on this subject but you are also determinded , by any means necessary, to keep the lid on the Apollo hoax information from spreading any further than it already has .... So be it ... You can make fun of me and call me every name in the book and tell me I don't do my homework on this subject or that I contradict myself , but the bottom line is there are just too many holes in the official Apollo record for it to be the truth ....
Correct - we do our homework. An argument from a position of ignorance is, well, no argument at all really, is it? And why should we want to see the nonsense about Apollo being faked,  bandied about as if it was a fact?

You keep on making these blanket statements about "too many holes in the official Apollo record" as if it is a proven fact, but nothing you have presented so far stands up to any kind of scrutiny. All you are left with is your own opinion about some ever increasing, global conspiracy. It seems the more evidence is provided to blow your argument away, the deeper the conspiracy has to reach to continue to hold water.

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Not to mention , there is no real technical proof of nasa's claims of having landed astronauts the moon six times .


Please do mention it! 380 kg of moon rocks, validated by professionals in their field, says you are wrong. How about proving them wrong?

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It will probably be a waste of time but I will post Hawkins' scientific findings proving that the lunar buggy couldn't have done what nasa claimed it did on the moon ....The scientific proof that the Apollo photography was faked , and could not possibly have been taken on the lunar surface or from lunar orbit ... and then the reasons why NO ONE who worked for NASA on the Apollo hoax has ever come forward and NEVER WILL COME FORWARD to the newspapers or the TV press with the proof that Apollo was a hoax .... It can't be done .... Period ... and Hawkins also has proven that .
Scientific findings and scientific proof - look forward to them. Along with details of his scientific education, training, expertise and experience. Didn't this guy become convinced the moon landings were faked partly because his team of "whizzkids" saw what they believed to be cats and dogs in Apollo photos? How likely is it that someone who uses that as evidence of a conspiracy, would also be able to use sound scientific methods to prove Apollo was faked? The two don't sit very comfortably together, do they?

Never mind, I'll await your posting of his findings...

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There is very good reason for Charles T. Hawkins ( if that's even his real name ) to have kept such a low profile and kept himself hidden from public view .... I doubt after what I have read in his book , that Hawkins is even his real name and there could even be a possibility that whoever this guy is , he might not even still be alive after his exposure of nasa's many lies about the Apollo Program .


Or maybe he's just embarrassed?

Edited by postbaguk, 01 January 2007 - 05:13 AM.


#161    flyingswan

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 12:53 PM

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Too funny !  ... For all we know , that could be a Russian site explaining how the Apollo missions were faked !

Why don't you actually read the link before making silly posts like that about it?  The link is an article by a Russian tracking engineeer who was personally involved, describing, with some technical detail, the Russian tracking of the Apollo missions.

If you don't know how to use an online translation program to convert it to English, ask your teacher.


"Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true" - Francis Bacon (1561-1626)
In which case it is fortunate that:
"Science is the best defense against believing what we want to" - Ian Stewart (1945- )

#162    Trinitrotoluene

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 03:22 PM

Straydog, can you please start capitalizing NASA please. Thank you.

"We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology." - Carl Sagan

#163    aquatus1

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 03:56 PM

Being that this thread is essentially one person repeating identical claims to a group of others who have already answered these claims in detail, this thread is closed, as it is doing little but going around in circles.  If anyone wishes to open a new thread, this is allowed, however, unless a new argument, or a new source, is being presented, do not expect it to remain open solely for the sake of arguing belief systems.  That is what blogs are for.





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