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Moon landing was fake


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#31    postbaguk

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 12:36 AM

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Quite frankly i cannot be bothered to trawl through the tons of evidence/ theories that the moon landing was fake or not. sleepy.gif  I am quite happy to stay open minded about all of this,yes.gif and can't decide which way to go no.gif, hence the open mind. However i do have 1 question. Why haven't we been back? We have much better technology and could do it much easier. unsure.gif  This is why i think it was done/faked just to do it before USSR did it. This is the only reason i can think it might of been faked. But that still doesn't answer why we havent had another manned mission to anywhere other than orbit. blink.gif  Answers?


Simple - lack of money and political will!

Although strictly speaking, we have been "back" five times already , since there were six successful Apollo lunar landings. And with the demise of the expensive space shuttle, new missions are now being planned for 2020.


#32    MID

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 12:43 AM

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That's rich coming from the King of Copy and Paste!

It's also untrue - and I'm tired of saying I quote sources ad nauseam whenever I do copy and paste. If Clavius has similar arguments, that's because they're very probably true. Please provide the link to where I copied and pasted my answers from, or withdraw the claim that I copied and pasted. Nice try at changing the subject, I'm assuming it's because you know the brief answers I gave are essentially true. If you think they are false, please provide an argument and some supporting evidence - rather than yet again hiding behind your strawman.




I'm into that!
yes.gif

And while we're at it...

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MID ..... There may be no hope of proving that Apollo was a hoax to you or to those who believe what you do about the alleged manned moon missions , but there are plenty of people who are open minded enough to look at the conspiracy evidence with a different perspective than somone like you , who apparently has a vested interest in this....
I do not believe.  I know.  As has been pointed out to you many times, there is a difference between knowledge, and belief.
You believe.  I know.

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After all , you claimed to have worked on the Apollo Program ....


No, I did not ever claim such a thing.
I said I was involved.   You may take that to mean what you will.  
I do not speak of my specific involvement, nor tout any particular credentials.  They are meaningless here, as you, or anyone else, cannot confirm or deny them  (after all, let's consider that Jay over at Clavius has a PhD in an associated discipline....and despite the fact that he's written an erudite, and articulate treatise (I often wonder how busy he really is with his actual work!) concerning the main contentions of hoax believers, and explains in pretty concise terms why they're all wet (I know, a decidedly un-scientific term)...you think he's a NASA STOOGE!    So much for credentials and their meaning on the world-wide-web.... hmm.gif

I have repeatedly said I was involved.  That's all.  I have also repeatedly said that the content of one's posts show what's really going on with someone.   It is appearent that some posters here have something going on...

It is also apparent that you have alot of belief, and not alot of technical knowledge about what happened or how.  You actually consider Jack White an authority, and Jay at Clavius a NASA stooge...You think Sibrel has is something other than a second-rate film maker who fabricated his product out of silliness, and an actual scientist is a stooge....see what I'm saying here?
  

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So even if you suspected that something was very wrong with the official Apollo record , you would never admit to it .



So...your conjecture is wrong.  If I suspected something was wrong with the NASA record, I would be compelled to show proof of that.  That would require scientific inquiry and substantive evidentiary manifestations....which is not to be forthcoming, since everything put out by NASA regarding Apollo meets every criteria for scientific scrutiny that exists.  


You are correct, stray.  There is no hope of proving that Apollo was a hoax...to me, or several others on this board.   This is because Apollo was a factual occurrance, and no one, yourself included, has ever provided one jot of evidence that shows that it was a hoax...not in the slightest.   Your arguments meet no standard of proof known or accepted.  They are based upon conjecture and belief, and as has been clearly shown, they are in many cases based upon a decided lack of technical knowledge in the subject matter.

Again, I will say that that fact is not an insult.  It is simply something that is.   Many of us are here to educate...not to argue.   But if your positions are filled with emotional attachment to an illusory ideal, there's really not much we can do to break through that and get you to actually investigate the sciences and technologies involved.  

I wish it could be different...in Jack White's case, he's far too old to reach.  He believes far too much, and has decided intellectual issues which have caused him to publish virtual idiocies regarding photographic anomalies that do not exist.   In your case...you are not that old.  





#33    MID

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 12:56 AM

Quote

Quite frankly i cannot be bothered to trawl through the tons of evidence/ theories that the moon landing was fake or not. sleepy.gif  I am quite happy to stay open minded about all of this,yes.gif and can't decide which way to go no.gif, hence the open mind. However i do have 1 question. Why haven't we been back? We have much better technology and could do it much easier. unsure.gif  This is why i think it was done/faked just to do it before USSR did it. This is the only reason i can think it might of been faked. But that still doesn't answer why we havent had another manned mission to anywhere other than orbit. blink.gif  Answers?



I shall say that listening to Posty on this will provide you the answer to your question in a nutshell....
Why haven't we been back (since Apollo 17) is a result of funding, which is of course associated with public will and governmental support.  Those two apsects shape everything we have done as a nation concerning space exploration...and many other things.

We do have more advanced technology...but going to the Moon wasn't simple in 1969, and it shall not be simple in 2020. We will however do it in the future, just as we did it in the 1960s and 1970s.

You said you had an open mind about this, and in the next breath described why you think it was faked.  The reason you cited for this is a common facet of human and societal nature, which it would behoove everyone to understand.  

On 1972, many of us who had involvement with the program in some way were chagrined...pissed-off, quite frankly, at Nixon's premature scrapping of the Apollo program...but this was just the way things were...and are, and that was the reason for the cancellation of the final 3 Apollo missions, and for the fact that we haven't been back since.

But, we will return.




#34    postbaguk

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 08:36 AM

Fleshed out version, with typos corrected hopefully!

1.  Apollo 14 astronaut Allen Shepard played golf on the Moon. In front of a worldwide TV audience, Mission Control teased him about slicing the ball to the right. Yet a slice is caused by uneven air flow over the ball. The Moon has no atmosphere and no air.

Correct! Mission Control teases him. He topped his first shot, then managed to hit it 2 or 3 feet. That's when Haise (mission control) says it looks like a slice. On the third attempt he hits the first ball some distance, and then hits his second ball even further with his first attempt.

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a14/a14.clsout2.html - scroll to 135:08:11. You can read the transcription from the audio, and even see a (low res) video of his golf shots.


2.  A camera panned upwards to catch Apollo 16's Lunar Landerlifting off the Moon.  Who did the filming?

As explained by MID, this was Ed Fendell. There is an interview with him here.
Briefly, this was done using the TV camera on the rover, remotely controlled from Earth. On Apollo 15 the motor was burned out so it didn't work - on Apollo 16 the rover was parked the wrong distance from the LM. They finally got it right on Apollo 17, as you can see here.

3.  One NASA picture from Apollo 11 is looking up at Neil Armstrong about to take his giant step for mankind. The photographer must have been lying on the planet surface. If Armstrong was the first man on the Moon, then who took the shot?

There are no photos taken by Aldrin of Armstrong descending the ladder. There is of course TV footage, but this is looking at Armstrong from the side, not from below. The only photos I can imagine the author is referring to is the sequence from AS11-40-5862 to AS11-40-5869 - this shows Aldrin descending the ladder, with Armstrong taking the photos. Incidentally, he was not "lying on the surface", as you can see from the TV sequence taken at the same time.


4.  The pressure inside a space suit was greater than inside a football. The astronauts should have been puffed out like the Michelin Man, but were seen freely bending their joints.

The pressure garment was designed with articulated joints to allow movement.

"The basic design of the A7L suit was a one piece, five-layer "torso-limb" suit with convoluted joints made of synthetic rubber at the elbow and knee joints, "link-net" meshing to prevent the suit from ballooning, and a shoulder "cable block" assembly to allow the shoulder to be extended and retracted by its wearer." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo/Skylab_A7L


Here's what the suit looked like without the outer protective layer of the pressure garment (the outermost layer was not pressurised).

linked-image

5.  The Moon landings took place during the Cold War. Why didn't America make a signal on the moon that could be seen from earth? The PR would have been phenomenal and it could have been easily done with magnesium flares.

Thousands of photos, hours of film, 380 kilos of rocks aren't enough to satisfy HBers - they would claim that this had been doen by a remote lander.


6.  Text from pictures in the article said that only two men walked on the Moon during the Apollo 12 mission. Yet the astronaut reflected in the visor has no camera. Who took the shot?

Picture reference number STILL required please!!!


7.  The flags shadow goes behind the rock so doesn't match the dark line in the foreground, which looks like a line cord. So the shadow to the lower right of the spaceman must be the flag. Where is his shadow? And why is the flag fluttering if there is no air or wind on the moon?

Firstly, the astronaut is in mid-jump, so his shadow isn't immediately below him.

Secondly, the flag isn't fluttering, it's made of nylon which is easily creased. The first and second pictures in the sequence shows the exact same crease pattern - the video taken at the same time shows no fluttering. The GIF I produced below from two consecutive images demonstrates the point. You can see TV footage taken at the same time here - which also shows no fluttering.


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.greer70/apollo/Jump2.gif

8.  How can the flag be brightly lit when its side is to the light? And where, in all of these shots, are the stars?

Also see MIDs answer. Direct and reflected sunlight (from lunar surface and LM) - the nylon flag could easily be backlit as well as lit from in front.

As for the stars are in the sky - you can't see them in photos, as it's impossible to have the both the brightly lit lunar surface and the stars correctly exposed in the same photo. Ask any amateur astrophotographer.


9.  The Lander weighed 17 tons yet the astronauts feet seem to have made a bigger dent in the dust. The powerful booster rocket at the base of the Lunar Lander was fired to slow descent to the moons service. Yet it has left no traces of blasting on the dust underneath. It should have created a small crater, yet the booster looks like it's never been fired.

See MIDs answer re the lander and astronauts feet making dents.

The descent stage rocket DOES show evidence of having scoured the surface regolith away from underneath the rocket. For example, this photo from Apollo 12.




#35    straydog

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:29 AM

And MID had the nerve to call me ridiculous and redundant ...   sleepy.gif .... Good grief Posty ...  Please give it a rest already .... Now I'm even getting tired of this discussion .

Edited by straydog, 27 December 2006 - 09:29 AM.

I would rather be in the minority and know the truth , than to be in the majority and be in denial of the truth .

#36    expo2

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 09:32 AM

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And MID had the nerve to call me ridiculous and redundant ...   sleepy.gif .... Good grief Posty ...  Please give it a rest already .... Now I'm even getting tired of this discussion .


im getting tired of this website actually for there is no fair conceding of any thread and its more about who can spit the in your face the most.  Take care straydog im outa here


#37    straydog

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 10:14 AM

expo2 .... That's a very astute observation and also a very wise decision .... and if I had any brains I would have done the same thing myself a long time ago .

I would rather be in the minority and know the truth , than to be in the majority and be in denial of the truth .

#38    postbaguk

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 10:43 AM

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And MID had the nerve to call me ridiculous and redundant ...   sleepy.gif .... Good grief Posty ...  Please give it a rest already .... Now I'm even getting tired of this discussion .


straydog

There may well be people reading this thread, or others, who would take at face value any of the nonsense about the moon landings that you and others espouse. Only fair to point them in the right direction!

Of course, if you're tired of a particular discussion, then don't post in the thread - simple. I'm tired too... the same old arguments that have been explained and debunked over and ober - but some people insist on repeating them. It's called an argumentum ad nauseam - keep repeating the same flawed argument over and over in the hope that people will get bored of refuting it, then claim to have won the argument. I hope that's never allowed to happen where Apollo is concerned.


#39    Obviousman

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 01:18 PM

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A family reunion and right after Christmas too ... Isn't that sweet  !  original.gif

Hi MID ... Hey everybody ... Yep , Posty is pretty quick on the draw with those famous clavius 'debunks' isn't he ?   rofl.gif

We now have twenty three posts so far and this thread hasn't even turned into a brawl or been locked yet ?  unsure.gif .... Will wonders never cease !   ohmy.gif

But we all know that if the black sheep of this little family ( that mangy straydog ) had posted this topic link here it would have already been locked ... Like right after the first post .   hmm.gif


Straydog,

You seem to have some issues with the thread, but I haven't seen you actually refute any of the explanations given that oppose your propositions.

Could you refute those counter-arguements given, to help me determine the validity of your position?

Thank you.



#40    aquatus1

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 01:32 PM

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expo2 .... That's a very astute observation and also a very wise decision .... and if I had any brains I would have done the same thing myself a long time ago .


Straydog, if you have nothing to contribute (and, frankly, you stopped contributing and began repeating yourself quite some time ago), then do not post.


#41    Sun Raven

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 06:27 PM

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See what I mean about being the black sheep of the moon hoax family ? ... That big meany MID just accused me of being ridiculous and redundant ! ... sad.gif    

I'll tell you what's "ridiculous and redundant "... Those pitiful copy and paste clavius moon hoax 'debunks' first from Posty and now from Ghostkol .  sleepy.gif

Sorry MID but it looks to me like the OP on this thread has already seen through the Apollo smoke screen barely covering up their bogus moon missions and knows the truth when they see it .... As in : The Apollo moon landings were science fiction !   thumbsup.gif


Hey buddy that " Copy and Paste" came from Space.com, click the source link below so it is certaily not "ridiculous and redundant.


P.S. Atleast I post something that has common sense sleepy.gif  thumbdown.gif

Posted Image

Sun Raven


#42    Sun Raven

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 06:29 PM

Posty, please provide a source link everytime you "Copy and Paste".

Posted Image

Sun Raven


#43    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 07:59 PM

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http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm

this will make u believe that the moon landing was fake.


erm......no

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#44    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 08:17 PM

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Posty, please provide a source link everytime you "Copy and Paste".


Ghostkol, what is wrong with the three links that postbaguk has provided with his reply?

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

Posted Image
Click on button

#45    crystal sage

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 08:30 PM

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Fleshed out version, with typos corrected hopefully!




2.  A camera panned upwards to catch Apollo 16's Lunar Landerlifting off the Moon.  Who did the filming?

As explained by MID, this was Ed Fendell. There is an interview with him here.
Briefly, this was done using the TV camera on the rover, remotely controlled from Earth. On Apollo 15 the motor was burned out so it didn't work - on Apollo 16 the rover was parked the wrong distance from the LM. They finally got it right on Apollo 17, as you can see here.


The descent stage rocket DOES show evidence of having scoured the surface regolith away from underneath the rocket. For example, this photo from Apollo 12.[/indent]





  dontgetit.gif  mellow.gif

Can they really use a remote control from Earth to get something to work on the MooN!!!!!!!!  ...That distance !!!!

How?????

Edited by crystal sage, 27 December 2006 - 08:31 PM.





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