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alternate propulsion


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#1    snuffypuffer

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 07:41 PM

Here's an idea.  What does anyone know about alternate propulsion systems for space craft?  Forget about rockets, and I've seen the ion rocket things, but what about others?  I'm sure there's other methods for getting into space being tested.  Anybody have anything on them?

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#2    Blood Angel

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 07:53 PM

YES! water/oxygen based electro kinectic engines (which was invented by Viktor schauberger, during WW2 in a nazi concentration camp), unfortunately this kind of techonology (which also considered free energy) has been surpressed by money grabbing oil companys and the like heres a Link

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#3    moe eubleck

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 08:23 PM

  Heres an interesting article on tether propulsion.

http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tether_propulsion

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#4    TheLight

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Posted 15 November 2003 - 08:58 PM

You can check for MHD propulsion. It's simply based on Laplace or Lorentz force, e.g. you create a magnetic field with a perpendicular electric field, it results a force perpendicular (in 3D of course) to these two fields. The theory is well mastered but I think the principle problem as of today is how to create a big magnetic field (several Tesla of intensity) with a lightweigth power source. This technology seems to be believed to be the one at work in UFOs by scientists.


#5    Kismit

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 05:40 AM

Zero point energy I believe  was something discussed on a previos thread . From what I gather it's the energy that naturally occurs in an atom when a negative thingy meets a positive thingy , but it obviosly isn't my area (like spelling) ..

might be worth looking up though it is really interesting ..


#6    TheLight

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 08:59 AM

QUOTE (Kismit @ Nov 16 2003, 04:40 AM)
Zero point energy I believe  was something discussed on a previos thread . From what I gather it's the energy that naturally occurs in an atom when a negative thingy meets a positive thingy , but it obviosly isn't my area (like spelling) ..

might be worth looking up though it is really interesting ..

I think you're referring to the most powerful source of energy, the equivalence mass/matter (you know, the E=mc2). Basically that's what you get when you put antimatter in contact with matter, the only thing is that producing antimatter is pretty hard with our current technology, I think it can only be produced in particle accelerators as of today.

But that's a source of energy, not a propulsion method though.


#7    snuffypuffer

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 09:15 AM

I wonder if anyone's actually tried harnessing antimatter to power anything yet.  And I saw somewhere that lasers can be used to power craft, they were even shooting a little disc shaped thing pretty high with one.

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#8    CASTOR

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 03:45 PM

My cousin was in the military a long time and had very high top secret clearance and said that he saw some thingsthat deal with propultion that just blew his mind. and he has a degree in physics. He wont tell me anything about what he saw, but he said none has been released to the general public yet, and what he saw was back in the 70's or 80's. so there is something out there that is really cool that we are all missing out on.

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#9    Kryso

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 01:23 AM

By a rope, believe it or not, lol.

I canít remember the name, I think itís something like Project X, or something, but a huge aerospace company have put up so many millions for a group or person to come up with a way of getting a craft into space cheaply. So far the leading group are working with a rope (obviously special rope, lol) but a plane can pull something on a rope, 5 or 6 times heavier than what it can carry! So a plane is secured to the craft (that will exit the planets atmosphere), and the craft is pulled along until it gain enough speed (saving the craft from having to have its own engine system) and then when it reaches the speed, it is released, and can exit the earths atmosphere on its own. Then when its completed whatever it needed to do, glide back using earth gravitational pull, and land like a normal plane. The group who came up with this theory will have a working craft that will exit the atmosphere within years. This will make space travel very cheap!



#10    Kismit

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 01:50 AM

QUOTE

I think you're referring to the most powerful source of energy, the equivalence mass/matter (you know, the E=mc2). Basically that's what you get when you put antimatter in contact with matter, the only thing is that producing antimatter is pretty hard with our current technology, I think it can only be produced in particle accelerators as of today.

But that's a source of energy, not a propulsion method though.
  Your right the light it is a form of energy and not propulsion as I said it's not my area but here goes a wee something if anyones interested ...

  LINKY


#11    Bruno

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 08:55 PM

QUOTE (Kryso @ Nov 17 2003, 12:23 AM)
By a rope, believe it or not, lol.

I canít remember the name, I think itís something like Project X, or something, but a huge aerospace company have put up so many millions for a group or person to come up with a way of getting a craft into space cheaply. So far the leading group are working with a rope (obviously special rope, lol) but a plane can pull something on a rope, 5 or 6 times heavier than what it can carry! So a plane is secured to the craft (that will exit the planets atmosphere), and the craft is pulled along until it gain enough speed (saving the craft from having to have its own engine system) and then when it reaches the speed, it is released, and can exit the earths atmosphere on its own. Then when its completed whatever it needed to do, glide back using earth gravitational pull, and land like a normal plane. The group who came up with this theory will have a working craft that will exit the atmosphere within years. This will make space travel very cheap!

That's really trippy!!! ohmy.gif  Just imagine the amount of fuel, and the speed that plane had to reach in order to launch a ship into space, even if that ship was in orbit. If it takes about 11,2km/s to escape the Earth's gravity pull from the ground (around Mach 32 wacko.gif ), imagine how fast that plane would have to go...

It would be like "Ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard flight 231, the captain wishes you a happy landing!!"

One of the the problems with space propulsion is the amount of fuel needed for the acceleration/deceleration. Once the escape speed is achieved and a ship flies on it's own inertia, it needs the exact amount of fuel it used to reach that velocity to brake. Arthur C. Clarke has some interesting notions about this (aero-braking, for those of you who saw "2010" as a means of saving fuel for the deceleration; or the so called and about-to-be-built space elevator) but, unfortunately, i think that we'll stick to rocket propulsion for some years to come. By the time nuclear controled fusion (and cold) exists, then we'll have the means we need for reaching the stars.

I think one of the problems with that s that there is so much money spent in other stuff ( i saw on tv that the russian atomic sub "Kursk" costed... i can't even remember how much and look at where it's now!!) than in space exploration.
I'm not saying that space exploration is more important than health or food or peace, but isn't it much more important and fulfilling than ICBM's and nukes and tanks and biological warfare, etc, etc...

I saw once a theory: a space sail, harnessing solar wind, would accelerate a ship out of the Oort's Cloud ( the boundaries of the Solar System) into Proxima.


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