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Archeoraptor


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#16    KGS3333

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 03:31 PM

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That is simply not true at all. You do not get lots of money for finding a new fossil, if your in paleontology to make a lot of money *EDIT*. There is next to no money in the field at all and thoe who make and sell the mismatched fossils are not scientists and no offence KGS but your scientific knowledge is no way near of a standard to call most of science into question.



Actually, Paleontologists usually receive a fairly decent salary and other perks; these people hardly wallow in poverty, and all it takes is a few notable finds for one's reputation to be secured.  The following link, if acurate, gives a good indication of what these people can earn:
http://museum.sdsmt.edu/mus_carr.htm

Let's not continue with this charade that science isn't simply one big mony-making scheme.  Few people enter the profession not expecting to be adequately compensated.  Unless you can provide me with proof that scientists, paleontologists in particular, are paid below the poverty level, I suggest that you refrain from labelling me *EDIT*.  You seem to be quite hell bent on downplaying the true nature of science; it's beginning to make me wonder.  If you're so right certainly you can go about refuting my assertions with always devolving these discussions into mudslinging events.

KGS

Edited by Paranoid Android, 10 February 2007 - 03:58 PM.
Removed quote remarks


#17    Mattshark

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 03:53 PM

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Actually, Paleontologists usually receive a fairly decent salary and other perks; these people hardly wallow in poverty, and all it takes is a few notable finds for one's reputation to be secured.  The following link, if acurate, gives a good indication of what these people can earn:
http://museum.sdsmt.edu/mus_carr.htm

Let's not continue with this charade that science isn't simply one big mony-making scheme.  Few people enter the profession not expecting to be adequately compensated.  Unless you can provide me with proof that scientists, paleontologists in particular, are paid below the poverty level, I suggest that you refrain from labelling me *EDIT*.  You seem to be quite hell bent on downplaying the true nature of science; it's beginning to make me wonder.  If you're so right certainly you can go about refuting my assertions with always devolving these discussions into mudslinging events.

KGS

You have no idea at all. Who the hell is going to give me high wages to be a zoologist? It doesn't make money for anyone so no one and you are directly insulting me with your *EDIT* assertions. If you don't like science and you think it is just a money making scheme stop using the benefits then.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 10 February 2007 - 04:01 PM.
Edited quote and offensive remark

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#18    Paranoid Android

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 04:04 PM

Settle down folks. I've just had to edit three consecutive posts for a variety of reasons.  Mattshark - I'm not sure what you have to be offended about here.    KGS has not attacked you directly.  The same cannot be said for you, and most of my editing has been related somehow to your personal attacks on him.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 10 February 2007 - 04:04 PM.

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#19    KGS3333

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 11:17 PM

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You have no idea at all. Who the hell is going to give me high wages to be a zoologist? It doesn't make money for anyone so no one and you are directly insulting me with your *EDIT* assertions. If you don't like science and you think it is just a money making scheme stop using the benefits then.


Well, universities tend to pay zoologists and other scientists quite decent wages.  If that link that I posted is any indication, US$70,000 is a fair chunk of change, not to mention $1.1 million in grants.  But that's the thing, although $70,000 is good money, it's never really enough for most people, is it?  In a highly competative field, one has to rely on more than one's honestly acquired knowledge to get ahead.  It's no different than in the corporate world or athletics.

Which brings me to my next point.  Yet again you've made a comment to the effect that "why don't I stop using the benefits that science" has brought.  Have I ever stated that science is inherently bad and all of the positive things that it brings us evil?  I don't think so.  But I have stated that I have concerns about the problems that science has caused us in the guise of being beneficial, and that in the last 50 years or so, science gotten way out of control.  There was a time when science was for the most part honestly trying to improve things a bit for humans, but now science seems to have become disassociated with reality; it seeks to discover and create everything possible, whether it's GM foods, cloned animals, hundred of thousands of toxic and poisonous compounds, etc.  The things that science does now is no longer something to be thankful for, rather feared.  

While I personally use some of the benefits of science (and corporations) I don't think that this excludes me from voicing my disagreement or disapproval of how science (and corporations) works.  

KGS


#20    aquatus1

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 12:02 AM

There is certainly nothing wrong with voicing one's opinion on the subject, particularly when it is done in a reasoned and civil manner.  Similarly, one can disagree with another without descending into personal attacks.

On that subject, KGS, I can't help but feel that you are using the "Good Old Days" fallacy, which is basically a fallacy of assuming the existance of some "Golden Age" of a particular situation.  In the same way that some talk about how "Crime was so much lower back in the good old days.", or "Morals were higher back in the good old days", you are saying that "Back in the good old days, scientists had good intentions".  All three of these situations are assuming that, back in the day, these situations were actually true, but when one checks the records, one finds that crime was pretty much statistically the same, morality was really not so different, and scientist...well, fifty years ago, scientists were actually thought of as somewhat more dangerous than they are now.  This was due mainly to the community tending to isolate itself from the less educated masses, leading to a certain distrust that was reflected in the horror movies of the time, which were so common that it is almost a cliche to see the Noble Hero accuse the Mad Scientists of crimes against nature.

When all is said and done, there is really very little difference between scientists and any other profession, and that includes pretty much every aspect of business, such as economics, supply and demand, and yes, even ethics.


#21    speshall mareens

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 03:59 AM

paleontologists make more than teachers but aren't poor. not only that, but this has gottne off subject, while yes, there are frauds, no all, not even close to half, are. and yes, alot of the things once thought fact are now proven false, its simply because of new evidence. oh, and KGS, paleontoligists can't spend grant money on themselves they must spend it on there expiditions.  these statements are not personal attacks on either of you. personal attacks are htat of demonwatcher. those are personal attacks, right mattshark? why you attacked eachither is beyond me, but u must say; "good show, quite entertaining indeed".

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#22    DemonWatcher

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 07:59 PM

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paleontologists make more than teachers but aren't poor. not only that, but this has gottne off subject, while yes, there are frauds, no all, not even close to half, are. and yes, alot of the things once thought fact are now proven false, its simply because of new evidence. oh, and KGS, paleontoligists can't spend grant money on themselves they must spend it on there expiditions.  these statements are not personal attacks on either of you. personal attacks are htat of demonwatcher. those are personal attacks, right mattshark? why you attacked eachither is beyond me, but u must say; "good show, quite entertaining indeed".

personal attacks by me huh, then waht that satatement you just made, that can be construed as a personal attack, can it not?

any way on topic, you are right about one thing paleontologists, do make a fair wage, but they usually spend that money so they can get the grants and are therefore able to go on expeditions to places where discovery can potentially be made, and yes a few high profile discoveries can make your career, however, they can also destroy your career. and i believe that goes for all scientific disciplines.(correct me on that if not correct)

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