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#31    swj20

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 03:46 AM

The Pole Star is only ever aligned for a brief time. Sometimes there is none.
Like 2000 years  

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Edited by swj20, 07 March 2004 - 06:59 PM.


#32    Spartan

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 03:36 PM

  MMMMM primative but fair,,
  Would you belive that its the space itself wich does it,
well im geting sleepy now,so im not going to answer this one,,
BUT think of this for a min,,,if the earth spin becouse of the gravity of any sort,,, why do we have satilites wich follow a orbital route depending on the course chosen,
what i mean is the space junk and other satilites should either crash to earth or float away
still not with me,,well ,im sleepy,,lol

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#33    swj20

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 03:50 PM

In fairness to what you say, satellites do experience re-orientation, precisely
because of these effects. It can cost a lot of money, not to re-orient them.
Many industries rely on precise information and data relay.

All satellites must conform to a rule, that they self-destruct within twenty years, by
gravity. That is to limit space debris. Nonetheless, there remains too much,
and the space station should go higher, if they could...

Thanks for mentioning it...


Edited by swj20, 03 March 2004 - 04:40 PM.


#34    Spartan

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 04:00 PM

  Yes , but is light a aspect of gravity??
This is were no one understands me.i hope you do,even a little,here goes
Light not heat,but plain light is what gives us gravity,i know sounds a bit far fetch,,but if i wasent in such a bad mood 2day,,,eh dosent matter,,,im probably wrong anyway, original.gif
take care,keep up the good work thumbsup.gif  

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#35    swj20

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 04:42 PM

And, there are always a lot more things than I mention.

Like earth's shape influences its gravity; it is ever so slightly varied,
and changes in time. It is a fairly uniform shape, except for density.

Here is a gravity density representation of earth. There's big gravity low off the coast of India, where there are thought to be the remains of some old mantle features associated with the plate tectonics of India that led it to collide with the Himalayas. There's a big high in the South Pacific, also thought to be due to mantle structures.
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/files/images/hi-r.../bumpyearth.jpg

Also, the ice sheets at the poles are melting. The earth is becoming less flattened, as a result, and this influences the gravity field.
The equatorial circumference is 40,074.156 km, and the polar circumference is
39,942.209 km. There is 131.947 km difference, so it is not perfectly round, and that bulge at the equator interacts with the gravity of the sun and moon.
These bodies have 'gravity wells', and the combined influences all 3 bodies influence, 'perturb', the motion of earth, and any objects orbiting them.

Here is a mission to 'map'. the earth's gravity. Essentially, they will track trajectory
posistions and speeds of two satellites, using k-band radio telescope tracking.

http://www.csr.utexas.edu/grace/

I will try to address you more directly, regarding light.

Edited by swj20, 03 March 2004 - 04:45 PM.


#36    swj20

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 05:53 PM

Look, light can travel. Photons are energy, with direction.
As a matter of fact, any travelling 'waves or particles' OF ANY SORT
are a kind of electro-magnetic phenomena.

Like a rowing team, some parts paddle the water, and some paddle the air, at right angles!
That is how radio, microwaves, visible light, ultra-violet, x-rays, and gamma-rays  travel, in one sense!

They can fall into depressions, in space, called 'gravity wells' (you know, a well
is a hole for water...)
They gain speed, going in, and lose it coming out, unless the well 'changes shape'.
Over time, space can 'grow', and the wells can reverse and become more shallow.
In the extreme, the wells collapse, as in a black hole. I suspect black holes are in a kind of heaven, albeit a forced entry. I think they revert to primal conditions,
as before time began. They drag in light and matter, but, nonetheless, can
contribute by energizing their surroundings. Early massive black hole quasars
energized the space and matter around them, and contributed to the clarity
of space we find today. Their gravity rotated, stirring up energy, and it was
like the Renaissance for the early universe. Light scattered off of ionized particles,
and this created the visibility that we all enjoy.


Light of course can be created this way- if an atom is jossled by another particle or energy, its electrons move about. As they quiet back down, they cast off their nervous energy- so to speak, in the form of photons- LIGHT!

I suppose if one played semantics, or made analogies, light could be responsible for everything. But the fact is, it is identifiable, in and of itself. It is not the primary cause of gravity.
IF ANYTHING, IT SEEKS TO LEAVE GRAVITY BEHIND!

If I had a space ship, and wanted to overcome gravity, I would need to consider two things. First, where is it strongest, upon my ship?
Answer- It is strongest near a large mass, like earth. Then, it would essentially cease to be a factor, if I had enough velocity, between celestial bodies.

NASA does not yet travel that fast, BUT THEY MAKE GREAT USE OF GRAVITY!
They 'slingshot' off of planets for lots of extra speed!

Gravity is like a 3-D 'slide' in a park. Everything goes to the happy medium, in the middle. Out in space, there is a 3-D bubble, or 'slide'.
Things on that slide experience acceleration, which is due to pressure of some sort,
coming from the gravity well perimeter.
You are composed of matter. Space is composed of minute particles, at the
quantum level, though how this is, is not clear.

When you rise like a bird, you displace your mass against the 'etherium'
of space. But, remember, the earth has exagerated the gravity well. You, as a bird, took to wing, but must overcome the tension between earth and its 'well'.

You must overcome the 'tension' of space (and time in the fourth dimension),
that earth creates. By using mechanical laws, this is accomplished.

However, do not try this, a la Iccarus, on the sun.The gravity would flatten
any architecture as gentle as the frame of our body.
Could we fly through the middle of the sun someday, to measure gravity
in the presence of trillions of photons? That would be interesting, in any event.

There are forces, yes. Centrifugal force is where 'angular momentum' is
'conserved', and would allow something to go forever. Like David and Goliath,
the sling went round, until he released it. He built up angular momentum,
and then changed it. Gravity made it arc down, and it found the big guy. Ouch!
'Centripedal' force is inward angular momentum, and is what David tried to avoid!

Gravity is a most sensible thing. Without it, there would be little large scale structure, anywhere. It is a natural extension of the spectrum of fields and energies, and the world of particles.

We do not know enough about it to do more than levitate trains on their tracks,
or perform exotic superconductor levitation.

Someone, I believe, from outside our solar system, has brought to us proof- that
gravity can be overcome entirely, allowing levitation next to a planet's surface.
And, I believe that acceleration from a standing position, going to speeds far beyond simple escape velocity, can be achieved, without adverse g-effects
to any occupants of such a ship. Remember, if you accelerate, you encounter the
layers of the gravity well in rapid succession. Going at excessive speed, this would penetrate to your bones, and any liquid bearing chamber, i.e. cells, would be severely displaced. Unless you isolated gravity, from your ship, for instance.

I saw what were reputed to be color NASA pictures, showing 4 unidentified objects
accelerating instantly to 240,000 mph. If they were real, you could conclude they were robotic, or they were piloted by creatures, who were isolated
from terrestrial gravity. I cannot prove they were real, but they were shown to me
by someone who is a top scientific researcher into ufos.

I have posted about that, but removed it, because I do not want ridicule over it.

Edited by swj20, 04 March 2004 - 12:04 AM.


#37    Spartan

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 06:09 PM

  MMm yes huh.gif
But i was trying to say very basically that light is the foundation of gravity,like im said its long yet not complicated.
as for pressure in a craft,for the reason of fast speeds, there are 2 factors
1;how to give the same gravity in the ship and blah blah blah
2;will the pilots have propermovment whil under the light photokratis(thats what i call it,sorry)
photokratis is a special function wich basically livens up the light in the craft,and gives a specific amount of gravity to the pilots
example;you speed up the light to a tremendous speed in the craft,wich in turn alters the inner crafts gravity,
BUT like i said i cant get into detail,im not good at typeing thumbsup.gif  

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#38    swj20

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 07:08 PM

(Let me say, I agree, that gravity might be overcome, someday, using
non-conventional technology, to lift without effort, heavy objects. Whether
it involves 'light', I do not have a clue...that said, start with basics...)

First- you know the effect of weightlessness
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images...ss007e17973.jpg

You need centrifugal force to simulate gravity- to SIMULATE!
It is not the same, but it keeps you on your feet. You can rotate any
space ship like a centrifuge.
http://lifesci.arc.nasa.gov/CGBR/home.html

Take a coffee cup. To remove it from the effects of gravity, using your analogy,
you would need to disassemble the atoms, and later reassemble them.
At near relatavistic speeds, they would lose molecular, then atomic coherence.
It would require a quantum computer to handle even thinking about it,
much less reassembling the parts.
That coffee cup contains more data than Einstein could imagine.

Or perhaps, you propose an effect that involves the speed of light,
or beyond, as a by-product of overcoming inertia; or maybe light speed helps
to overcome inertia (if you are going that route with this discussion);
or maybe you mean gravity is a field distortion of mass,
and that if that field were accelerated, to the speed of light, great changes would occur.
If gravity had such a wide range of potential, it would zip away from matter, thus it is limited, and sub-luminal, at least to my current thinking.
Yet, it is massive, on universal scales!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our galaxy is slipping into a hugh gravity well, in the Herculean-Supercluster.

Not to worry, we have our day in the Sun, so to speak!
http://www.anzwers.org/free/universe/superc.html



As for "field effects", and isolating an object inside an alternating
continuum (moving a field), that is theoretically possible. To accelerate the field in an offset fashion, is to create a potential, against which you could thrust.
The field could surround a spaceship, for example, and the ship would
protect those inside of it, from the field outside.

Again, you propose light speed to overcome gravity, and hint at the idea that the speed of electromagnetic phenomena (which always travels at a speed of 299,792,458 meters per second, in a vacuum like space) is the threshold
around which gravity proceeds, or even is generated from.
The speed of gravity acceleration is known, and calculable.
The speed of the 'movement of gravity fields' is not known.
There are steps being taken to look for that, in outer space, using stationary
monitoring satellites, that will beam lasers to watch each other's movements.
Gravity particles, or gravitons have never been found to exist, by the way.


Traveling super-luminal speeds, beyond the constant 'C' has been seen in
particles, but is not understood. I remember reading about electrons defying
the speed of light. Experiments in the early 1970s found electrons could vanish,
and re-appear at another orbit around an atom. They travelled at tachyon
speeds.
So, I suppose, using your analogy, particles can go light speed, or even
faster! and survive!
Unless, as I propose- they TIME TRAVELLED! (or maybe even teleported!)
They took the most expedient route! using a means I do not understand!
I suppose they avoid relatavistic acceleration, and do something else, something
to travel to another place and time, and maintain their form.

This could be a slip-up, by the universe, but I never heard ANY proposals
discounting the experiment's observations.

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Edited by swj20, 04 March 2004 - 12:12 AM.


#39    Spartan

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 07:37 PM

   yes intresting dontgetit.gif
i like to admit something,,,this might shock you alittle...I have diffrent formula on the speed of light ,than the one used today.
also this might sound abit wierd,,,,but have you ever heard of people being abducted by beams of light or rays ,if you want to call it that,,
now just for a min,if it is true..than light playes a big role in gravity.
if its wrong maybe they use something else,and shine a spot light on the thing there beaming up(beam me up scoty,lol),,,,ahem sorry....
when dealing with space,we must speculate the universe as if one big sea,not empty space,,,diffrent waves travel diffrent in space,whether with speed or wave action,,,plus many more.
now if you can create space in a single room,and you whant to change the gravity,you do not shake the room,hehe  basicaly the gravity must be a fixed element,  but the speed of light formuler does not work with what we have.
example,if you speed up light to its fastest ever,can it knock a piece of paper down?  NO
so what am i talking about,you say huh.gif
A Gravity Engine,wich does all that and more,i call it"Katimichani"
2 get the light working you must take away a element,not add,,
WHAT you say ,take a what??? laugh.gif
example;radio waves are unbalanced compared to light waves,
things wich move in a straighter line are more balanced than wavey waves,lol
thats why optic cable works better that other means,not becouse of the speed,but the balance in motion. thumbsup.gif
Swj20 this is a topic if solved can fix alot of the material problems we face on earth,
In the end they already know all this, alien.gif
there just waiting for the green light,at a very bad time to reveil things wich they claim they do not know,
but i like the way you type
im sh** at explaining myself without paper and pen,in front of person,
and dont worry,no one knows nothing in the end
take care, wink2.gif  

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#40    swj20

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 08:22 PM

Here is a solar sail, with a ship disembarking from its place in the middle.

They are somewhere in our solar system (in my example).

They got there together.

The sail is, in theory, a lightweight, durable material. It is capable of reflecting
most light energy coming from the SUN!
When light strikes the sail, it PUSHES the spacefaring ships deeper into the solar system.

Remember- for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

And when light PHOTONS leave the sun, and travel out on the solar trade-winds,
they exert a FORCE! Mutiplied by trillions of tiny pushes, and in the absence of gravity, the ships inertia is overcome- and off it goes!!!
This is the concept with solar-sails- that light exerts a pressure.

Focused light- as in a laser- is another matter!
Lasers can punch right through dense matter, if given enough input.
And they can be potent weapons, or gentle enough for eye surgery.

As a matter of fact, there is a LASER BASED SAIL designed by NASA, but it is low-priority, and not likely, in the near future.


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Edited by swj20, 04 March 2004 - 08:00 AM.


#41    swj20

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 08:46 PM

...about piloting a ship, at trans-light speed.
How would you have gravity inside of it?

You could have two fields- like Russian dolls, one inside the other,
if it were possible.
The inner field could be stronger near the undercarriage, thus
creating an artificial 'gravity-well', just enough to maintain proper
effects for the crew.

A second field could rotate outside of that, giving thrust.

What about cancelation effects from interference?

Then perhaps the gravity inducing field could be in the hull of the structure, itself,
layered inside the botom of the ship's superstructure.

Just a thought.
...mention of optical data, I can imagine it this way. Copper wires conduct a bucket-brigade effect,
when hit with electricity.They generate a wave of elctrons, moved forward.
There is a price- friction, and it creates heat, which interferes with magnetic fields,
and you have limits to the diameter of the wire.

With glass fibres, you are allowing light to propagate, unimpeded, through a medium. A signal burst enters the end, and travels foward, until you hit a CURVE!
I can imagine the wave 'banking' to compensate. Any other lightwaves nearby
could be impeded, by in-turning waves on the outer perimeter.
Traffic jam. Otherwise, smooth sailing.

Edited by swj20, 06 March 2004 - 12:40 AM.





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