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First American Settlers Not Who We Thought


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#1    Roj47

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 12:40 PM

The Clovis People, a prehistoric group of mastodon hunters distinguished by their unique spear points and once thought to be the first Americans, likely populated North America after other humans had already arrived, a new study concludes.

The Clovis and their hunting technologies were not the first inhabitants of the New World, researchers write in the Feb. 23 issue of the journal Science, addressing a longstanding debate on the first New World humans.

The people were named for artifacts found at Clovis, New Mexico, but evidence for this culture has since been found elsewhere.

http://www.livescience.com/history/070222_...ead_makers.html

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#2    Piney

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 02:44 AM

I nor any other researcher or educator in my tribe ever believed the "Clovis first" theory. The flood account in our legends ( Walum Olum or "Red Score") described the Glacier Lake Missoula 'flood event' perfectly and that happened long before the Clovis culture.

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Edit: spelling error

Edited by Piney, 08 March 2007 - 02:45 AM.

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#3    mystery dude

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 12:18 AM




     My Grampa always said,"Its annoying when scientists come and say eleven thousand years ago your ancestors came across the Bering Straight"...........I don't think they did ether, and some tribes have been in the same spot for far more than eleven thousand years.............


#4    Obsin

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 06:14 PM

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My Grampa always said,"Its annoying when scientists come and say eleven thousand years ago your ancestors came across the Bering Straight"...........I don't think they did ether, and some tribes have been in the same spot for far more than eleven thousand years.............



So basically it is a matter of gross presumption by scientists.  The earliest evidence they find of humans reaching the Americas is 11,000 or so years ago so they presume that 11,000 years is when humans first came over not realizing that they should not make such a broad conclusion unless everything they find consistantly and clearly points to humans first comng over 11,000 years ago.  If not, then they should keep their mouths shut (since it is so hard, they should just say that the earliest evidence found thus far of humans being in America is from 11,000 years ago).


#5    Lt_Ripley

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 06:24 PM

from ask a geneticist - stanford university

As I said, for a long time archeologists believed that all Native Americans were descended from people from Siberia who crossed over to Alaska about 11,500 years ago. They traveled on a land bridge under what is now the Bering Strait. These people were called the Clovis People after an archeological site near Clovis, NM. They first colonized the uninhabited lands of North America. Later they migrated to Central and South America.

Scientists were able to figure this out from looking at human and other remains found at archeological sites. Also the language spoken by some Native American people closely resembles ancient Asian languages. This was more convincing evidence for the theory that Native Americans came from Siberia.

Now there is evidence that people other than the Clovis People arrived to the Americas at different times and from different places. This evidence comes from looking at lots more archeological sites, and studying the DNA of Native Americans.

Some years ago archeologists found the remains of an ancient settlement in Chile. They were surprised to find that it was 12,500 years old. This is much more ancient than the Clovis People! Also, the skeletons found in this site resemble more the people of Polynesia than the inhabitants of Siberia. The theory is that these people may have arrived by boat to America from Polynesia. Now we believe that there were separate groups of people who came to America from Asia.
Some years ago archeologists found the remains of an ancient settlement in Chile. They were surprised to find that it was 12,500 years old. This is much more ancient than the Clovis People! Also, the skeletons found in this site resemble more the people of Polynesia than the inhabitants of Siberia. The theory is that these people may have arrived by boat to America from Polynesia. Now we believe that there were separate groups of people who came to America from Asia.

Scientists looked at mtDNA from many Native Americans and many Asians. They were surprised again. Based on their DNA, Native Americans belong to five different groups. Groups 1-4 are closely related to Asian people. The fifth group is most closely related European or Western Asian people! So it seems most Native Americans are originally from Asia – and as you said fundamentally Asian. However, it seems there are some whose origins are from Europe!


http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=41

Edited by Lt_Ripley, 12 June 2007 - 06:26 PM.


#6    Harte

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 11:39 PM

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Scientists looked at mtDNA from many Native Americans and many Asians. They were surprised again. Based on their DNA, Native Americans belong to five different groups. Groups 1-4 are closely related to Asian people. The fifth group is most closely related European or Western Asian people! So it seems most Native Americans are originally from Asia – and as you said fundamentally Asian. However, it seems there are some whose origins are from Europe!

This last part is outdated.  They have since found several different groups of people with the mtDNA haplogroup X (which is the one supposedly from Europe) right there in Eastern Asia, where the proposed land bridge was.

Doesn't mean that some Native American peoples weren't from Europe though.  But it does mean that they could have just as easily been from Asia, where we know the rest came from.

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#7    Lt_Ripley

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 08:59 AM

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This last part is outdated.  They have since found several different groups of people with the mtDNA haplogroup X (which is the one supposedly from Europe) right there in Eastern Asia, where the proposed land bridge was.

Doesn't mean that some Native American peoples weren't from Europe though.  But it does mean that they could have just as easily been from Asia, where we know the rest came from.

Harte



isn't that what is stated - that most came from Asia ?


#8    Harte

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 04:41 PM

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isn't that what is stated - that most came from Asia ?


Yes, all except this part:

Quote

However, it seems there are some whose origins are from Europe!


I'm saying that this information has become outdated with the discovery of the X mtDNA haplogroup in a handful of populations in Central and Eastern Asia.

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#9    louie

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 12:47 PM

Here is a beautiful site in north america, monks mound.

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/usa/cahokia.htm

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#10    RedBear

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 03:34 AM

I recently read on the Discover website that bones, pottery and tools have been found in colorodo that date back over 50,000 years. Well before the clovis people.

I always wondered though ... what was going on on the east coast when people were supposedly crossing the Bering land Bridge?



#11    War Eagle

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 04:18 AM

I'm with you piney.

Every time i here of 'science(paleontology/archaeology)making new 'discoveries of the 'original inhabitants' of Nth/Sth America, we only ever get a one sided story...we rarely ever hear from the NA Indians themselves and what they have to say on the matter at hand...or don't their opinions matter?

I'l go with the Native Elders version(whatever it is)before i ever believe what science has to say.
The knew more about the lands that they (lived on/with) for possibly tens of thousands of years(?)... then along comes some white dude in a wooden boat who took the 'wrong turn' in the first place anyway and ended up on their shores and claimed it as his own.

Passing history and cultural knowledge down from generation to generation by word of mouth and through art etc, seems more plausible to me.

Far too many lies have been told to us since the ''discovery'' of the new world over the centuries through politics, education, media in general etc, about the indigenous people and the land they belonged to for so long.

Sounds to me like science(white man)with a forked tongue all over again.

NA

JMO

Edited by REBEL, 29 June 2007 - 11:47 AM.


#12    She-ra

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 01:06 PM

Rebel (and whoever else is interested) someone suggested that I read this book and boy it blew me AWAY.

It's called Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee by Dee Brown.

This book has to be the most well-written I've read in quite some time. It explains that since (for the most part) the American Indian "history" was interpreted however the white man decided it because of the huge language barriers. Basically it was like one huge game of charades.

Anyway, just thougt someone may be interested in how we brutally killed, stole land, broke promises and just about desroyed an entire race of human's.

PS: Warning, even the toughest guy out there will cry.


#13    Bella-Angelique

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 01:25 PM

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we brutally killed, stole land, broke promises and just about desroyed an entire race of human's.


No, we did not do any of those things. People in the past did those things because of their culture at that time.
There are few pure natives and descendants of early Euro colonials that are not mixed today, if any.
The Great Migration brought in a wave of fresh Euro DNA into the northeastern USA, but for most of the rest of the country the people remained mostly a mixture of African, Euro, and Native American.

I felt compelled to jot this down because of the post of a young one on the forum the other day that wished that we would try to work on ending racism. We need to start taking those wobbly first steps away from identifying cultures by race and leave then to be defined as they should by their actions, their character as Martin King put it.

Race after all can change for a genetic family over time.

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#14    War Eagle

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 02:24 PM

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Rebel (and whoever else is interested) someone suggested that I read this book and boy it blew me AWAY.

It's called Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee by Dee Brown.

This book has to be the most well-written I've read in quite some time. It explains that since (for the most part) the American Indian "history" was interpreted however the white man decided it because of the huge language barriers. Basically it was like one huge game of charades.

Anyway, just thougt someone may be interested in how we brutally killed, stole land, broke promises and just about desroyed an entire race of human's.

PS: Warning, even the toughest guy out there will cry.


Thanks for that She-ra i may just check it out.

And yea your absolutely right, they were hard done by, from almost day one...practically wiped off the face of the earth by church and government. All the info you need to find on it is on line or if you like snoop around my thread mostly the second half of it.


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#15    War Eagle

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 02:27 PM

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No, we did not do any of those things. People in the past did those things because of their culture at that time.
There are few pure natives and descendants of early Euro colonials that are not mixed today, if any.
The Great Migration brought in a wave of fresh Euro DNA into the northeastern USA, but for most of the rest of the country the people remained mostly a mixture of African, Euro, and Native American.

I felt compelled to jot this down because of the post of a young one on the forum the other day that wished that we would try to work on ending racism. We need to start taking those wobbly first steps away from identifying cultures by race and leave then to be defined as they should by their actions, their character as Martin King put it.

Race after all can change for a genetic family over time.


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