[kmt_sesh]

Qoais, on 20 November 2009 - 06:26 PM, said:

0000hhhhhhhhhh - I think I get it. He's on topic

He's being scientificy.

[Big Jon]

Qoais, on 20 November 2009 - 07:38 PM, said:

kmt - let me try this again.

Firstly - an "alien" is just something or someone who is not indigenous to a specific area. It does not mean the person or thing in question, is from another planet. Supposedly, all creations came out of the void, so nothing is really alien to anything else.

im not good on this stuff so sorry for butting in here but isnt their ment to be like different universes.. i really dont know enough on this stuff to try and argue with someone clued up.

[Qoais]

Hi Big Jon - yes there is supposed to be different universes. What was the point you were trying to make? I was trying to show kmt that people believe in god. God is not seeable but we say he lives in heaven. Heaven is in the sky - somewhere. So therefore, since god is not indigenous to this planet, he would be considered an alien. However, that does not make him reptilian with green or gray skin. When I say that earth is a seeded planet, that God - the creator - sent some of his created beings (beings that weren't birthed through a sexual union but were created complete) to plant the seeds of life in the primordial soup and watch over the soup until the life forms had been established, people think I am talking about an alien with green or gray skin or some life form from another planet. Then I ask are angels alien? Because angels are another "created" being that they themselves do not have sex nor do they pro-create. But when I SAY angel, everyone knows what I'm speaking about. When I say ALIEN everyone THINKS they know what I'm speaking about. Or shall I say, anything that they think isn't indigenous to this planet is ALIEN. They keep making a big deal of the word Alien for some reason. Yet the Egyptians built the pyramids so their kings could return to their alien "mother-land" out in the Sirius star system, and no one thinks the gods of the Egyptians were ALIENS!! Doesn't this all seem kind of illogical?

[kmt_sesh]

Qoais, on 20 November 2009 - 01:38 PM, said:

Firstly - an "alien" is just something or someone who is not indigenous to a specific area. It does not mean the person or thing in question, is from another planet. Supposedly, all creations came out of the void, so nothing is really alien to anything else. But it's a term we apply to indicate something is "not from around here". I am aware that YOU have never said the ancient god was an alien. I was saying that because you accept that the AE's believed their god came from the stars, you must also accept that he was an alien.

Oh, so now the ancient gods are a bunch of undocumented workers?

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. In the tradition of Lower Egypt, which is the myth with which most people are familiar and the one best attested in the historical record, in the beginning there really wasn't space or heavens or form, aside from roiling, chaotic waters. From these waters arose a mound of earth, and the first god, Atum, appeared on this mound. How he appeared there tends to differ from period to period, such as sprouting from a flower that had grown on the mound, but he appeared there nevertheless. Through masturbation he engendered Shu and Tefnut, who begot Geb and Nut, who begot Osiris, Isis, Nephthys, and Set, et cetera. Sounds so very biblical. LOL Now, in the Victorian period this was slightly revised so that Atum spat Shu and Tefnut into life (can't have "masturbation" on the printed page, can we?), but at least they didn't mess with anything else. Aside from putting fig leaves over the junk of Greek statues.

What I'm getting at, then, is that none of these key gods actually came from the heavens--the starry night sky. They pre-existed the heavens. So, where did the heavens come from, and the most prominent god, Re? As important as Re became, he wasn't as old as other gods like Horus, but was attached early on to the Heliopolis tradition where Atum's cult had been founded. At times Atum and Re were indistinguishable. In the oldest traditions of Re, however, he appears first as the divine ruler of the world and lived among man. When he tired of living among mankind, the goddess Nut transformed herself into a celestial cow and carried him off into the sky. Her body became the heavens, and Re the great god of the sun (Wilkinson 2003: 206).

A lot of this is really difficult for modern people to make sense of because they look at it from the perspective of a modern person. How can the world exist before the sky, the heavens? Where was the sun before this? How exactly did this all happen? I admit it seems odd, but then again it's always folly to try to examine an ancient culture from 21st century eyes. Ancient peoples such as the Egyptians did not need every single detail to be linear and programmatic as we tend to prefer, so to us much seems lost in the details.

The bottom line is, in ancient Egypt the people believed their gods first came from the formless waters of Nun and then from the earth itself. There were no illegal aliens. No aliens, period.

[Big Jon]

Qoais, on 21 November 2009 - 05:10 AM, said:

Hi Big Jon - yes there is supposed to be different universes. What was the point you were trying to make? I was trying to show kmt that people believe in god. God is not seeable but we say he lives in heaven. Heaven is in the sky - somewhere. So therefore, since god is not indigenous to this planet, he would be considered an alien. However, that does not make him reptilian with green or gray skin. When I say that earth is a seeded planet, that God - the creator - sent some of his created beings (beings that weren't birthed through a sexual union but were created complete) to plant the seeds of life in the primordial soup and watch over the soup until the life forms had been established, people think I am talking about an alien with green or gray skin or some life form from another planet. Then I ask are angels alien? Because angels are another "created" being that they themselves do not have sex nor do they pro-create. But when I SAY angel, everyone knows what I'm speaking about. When I say ALIEN everyone THINKS they know what I'm speaking about. Or shall I say, anything that they think isn't indigenous to this planet is ALIEN. They keep making a big deal of the word Alien for some reason. Yet the Egyptians built the pyramids so their kings could return to their alien "mother-land" out in the Sirius star system, and no one thinks the gods of the Egyptians were ALIENS!! Doesn't this all seem kind of illogical?

reading my posot i really have no idea where i was coming from.. ima stop coming on here if iv had a drink

[Qoais]

Big Jon - you're probably as sober as anyone on here. It's likely my convoluted post that makes you think your're drunk!

[kmt_sesh]

Qoais, on 21 November 2009 - 08:43 PM, said:

Big Jon - you're probably as sober as anyone on here. It's likely my convoluted post that makes you think your're drunk!

LOL I was going to say something flippant but I'll be a good boy.

[Big Jon]

kmt_sesh, on 22 November 2009 - 03:50 AM, said:

LOL I was going to say something flippant but I'll be a good boy.

go for it

[kmt_sesh]

Big Jon, on 21 November 2009 - 09:51 PM, said:

go for it

No. I'm a wimp. Qoais will hurt me.

[draconic chronicler]

Stichin is a liar who panders to adolescent "Trekkies" to sell his books. The real Sumerian myths identify these "gods" as "great serpent dragons of heaven", much as the dragon gods of China and Mesoamerica.

Stichin claims the "dragons" are really "spaceships" and that the aliens who travel in them look like humans..... just like most of the aliens in Star Trek, because his fans want to believe we were visited by aliens in spaceships who were so careful they didn't lose a single lug nut or bottle cap.

There are numerous real scientists that have discredited everything Stichin says.

[Big Jon]

their was that story about that alexander the great too tho wasn't their.. he said when he was going to take over this town "great silver sheilds" hoverd in the air above him this was like 1500 bc and the ones from medievil times about the flying things tht fought in the air once then disappeared

[Oniomancer]

draconic chronicler, on 21 November 2009 - 11:48 PM, said:

Stichin is a liar who panders to adolescent "Trekkies" to sell his books. The real Sumerian myths identify these "gods" as "great serpent dragons of heaven", much as the dragon gods of China and Mesoamerica.

Stichin claims the "dragons" are really "spaceships" and that the aliens who travel in them look like humans..... just like most of the aliens in Star Trek, because his fans want to believe we were visited by aliens in spaceships who were so careful they didn't lose a single lug nut or bottle cap.

Nonsense. Being intelligent creatures, the aliens obviously ate their lug nuts and bottle caps.

[Agent. Mulder]

draconic chronicler, on 22 November 2009 - 04:48 AM, said:

Stichin is a liar who panders to adolescent "Trekkies" to sell his books. The real Sumerian myths identify these "gods" as "great serpent dragons of heaven", much as the dragon gods of China and Mesoamerica.

Stichin claims the "dragons" are really "spaceships" and that the aliens who travel in them look like humans..... just like most of the aliens in Star Trek, because his fans want to believe we were visited by aliens in spaceships who were so careful they didn't lose a single lug nut or bottle cap.

There are numerous real scientists that have discredited everything Stichin says.

One thread, without Dragons. thats all we ask.