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hidden chambers under the great sphinx


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#61    Harte

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 04:18 PM

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...he also stated that the water erosion theory on the sphynx is only the opnion of 1 geoligst and he is incorrect.

Please give some reference that would indicate that this claim you make here might be correct.  Or am I reading this wrong?  Do you mean that Hawass is incorrect, or the Schoch is?

Is this a straw man argument?  That is, it is absolutely certain that every geologist agrees that erosion has occurred on the sphinx monument.  However, do you know of any actual geologist that agrees with Schoch's theory that the sphinx was carved in 7,000 BC or earlier?  If so, please tell us who it is.  I'd certainly like to see their reasoning, since I'm not at all conviced by Schoch.

Quote

...he is very very agressive towards any theory that the pyramid or sphynx are not made by egyptans

Hawass is certainly agressive in this way.  He is quite vigorous in defending the (general) mainstream view that Egyptian monuments date to around 2700 BC at the earliest.  This is (mostly) because of the aggressive and vigorous way that the various pseudohistorians have distorted a the facts and spread disinformation about ancient Egypt in blatant attempts to garner some quick cash by relying on a lazy readership and a general willingness the public has to believe (or want to believe) in conspiracies, "mysteries" and other general clap trap.  It is also because there is absolutely no evidence at all that would indicate anything to the contrary.  None.  Anywhere. At all.

Probably a couple of good enough reasons there, IMO.

Pseudohistorians have, in the past, gone as far as to claim (lie, that is) that Hawass had been fired from his job for stealing Egyptian artworks from antiquity.  He is called every name in the book by uninformed sheep being led by the nose by their pseudoscientific author-leaders down an idiot's road to misplaced anger and suspicion.

Also, he's Egyptian and works for the Egyptian government.  As such, it's his job.

Quote

...whatever did happen to the spynx nose.

It fell, or was eroded, off.  Originally Napolean (or more correctly, his men) were blamed for shooting it off.  That turned out not to be the case.

There was also a beard, curled in the style of Gods (the king's beards were always depicted as straight.)  The beard also fell off, but it's currently theorized that the beard was a much later addition to an already existing, and clean-shaven, monument.

The beard (well, it's pieces,) is kept at the British Museum in London.

Harte

Edited by Harte, 02 April 2007 - 04:27 PM.

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#62    louie

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 04:37 PM

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Please give some reference that would indicate that this claim you make here might be correct.  Or am I reading this wrong?  Do you mean that Hawass is incorrect, or the Schoch is?

Is this a straw man argument?  That is, it is absolutely certain that every geologist agrees that erosion has occurred on the sphinx monument.  However, do you know of any actual geologist that agrees with Schoch's theory that the sphinx was carved in 7,000 BC or earlier?  If so, please tell us who it is.  I'd certainly like to see their reasoning, since I'm not at all conviced by Schoch.
Hawass is certainly agressive in this way.  He is quite vigorous in defending the (general) mainstream view that Egyptian monuments date to around 2700 BC at the earliest.  This is (mostly) because of the aggressive and vigorous way that the various pseudohistorians have distorted a the facts and spread disinformation about ancient Egypt in blatant attempts to garner some quick cash by relying on a lazy readership and a general willingness the public has to believe (or want to believe) in conspiracies, "mysteries" and other general clap trap.  It is also because there is absolutely no evidence at all that would indicate anything to the contrary.  None.  Anywhere. At all.

Probably a couple of good enough reasons there, IMO.

Pseudohistorians have, in the past, gone as far as to claim (lie, that is) that Hawass had been fired from his job for stealing Egyptian artworks from antiquity.  He is called every name in the book by uninformed sheep being led by the nose by their pseudoscientific author-leaders down an idiot's road to misplaced anger and suspicion.

Also, he's Egyptian and works for the Egyptian government.  As such, it's his job.
It fell, or was eroded, off.  Originally Napolean (or more correctly, his men) were blamed for shooting it off.  That turned out not to be the case.

There was also a beard, curled in the style of Gods (the king's beards were always depicted as straight.)  The beard also fell off, but it's currently theorized that the beard was a much later addition to an already existing, and clean-shaven, monument.

The beard (well, it's pieces,) is kept at the British Museum in London.

Harte

Hawass said on the tv program that the erosion theory is only the theory of one geolgist and he is incorrect says hawass.


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#63    crystal sage

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 09:13 AM

" thumbsup.gif Ever heard about the tale of the second Sphinx????

it makes sense... they always had 2 cats guarding portals...doors....

http://www.freedomcrowsnest.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=134697

"  In Egypt it is known that Sphinxes came in pairs.
Archaeologist Michael Poe is certain of a second Sphinx. He wrote: (fragmentary papyrus) said that there was another Sphinx facing this one on the other side of the Nile,
Not only did the ancient Egyptians mention a second Sphinx, but so did the Greeks, Romans, and Muslims. It was destroyed between 1000-1200 ad.

At the entrance to buildings and temples there are two Sphinxes, side by side, but on the avenue or approach to the temple they are facing each other. Sometimes they may have as much as 100 or so facing each other in the avenue. The Nile is Egypt's avenue between North and South. All of the writings about the two Sphinxes say that they were facing each other. The second one, by the way, was partly destroyed during a high Nile flood, and then completely destroyed by ensuing Moslems carting it off to rebuild their villages.
Al-I'Drisi (AD 1099-1166) who wrote about it in Kitab al-Mamalik wa al-Mansalik (a large geographic encyclopedia) and Al-Kitab al-Jujari, a geographical encyclopedia on Asia and Africa. He describes a second sphinx across the Nile from the first in very bad state of repair, made of mud (bricks?) and faced with stone, most of the stone having been hauled away by local inhabitants and now the Nile "lapping at it's feet." He doesn't say if it was the same size, but since the Nile moved further east after AD 1166, then it would have been destroyed.
Authors Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval also believe that a second sphinx was likely. In their book The Message of the Sphinx

So if Hor-em-Akhet is the Great Sphinx in the western 'Horizon of Giza,' then should we not look for Horakhti, his, 'twin,' in the eastern horizon of the sky? [
The first smaller Sphinx was placed once called Hu of the Horizon.


#64    Essan

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 12:59 PM

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Hawass said on the tv program that the erosion theory is only the theory of one geolgist and he is incorrect says hawass.


In that case Hawass would do well to have a word with Colin Reader wink2.gif

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#65    crystal sage

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 02:16 PM

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Hi all, I've been a regular browser for a couple of years now and have finally registered as I wanted to add to this thread.

I have visited the network and rooms under the Sphinx many times in meditation and my understanding is that it is multi-dimensional.  I have seen what's there - as much as I am allowed to anyway. It is all intact and in immaculate condition but not in this reality, if archaelogists were to gain access underneath then all they will find is ruins. To see what's 'really' there you must be able to see other dimensions, whether that's through meditation, with astral projection, or visit physically and have have the ability see other layers beyond this reality or at least have psychic vision.   I have been shown that the knowledge is there to be gained, not in books or physical records but in energy form.  There is also much more to it than just being the 'hall of records'.  

After the meditations, I came across Drunvalo's comments about his 'message from Thoth' and his descriptions of how to access the chambers and what's down there pretty much fit my own experiences - in fact, some of the detail matched so precisely I was completely spooked.  I also came across the website included earlier on this thread which showed Osiris tomb in it's current state - this also validated what I saw, even down to the pillars and the pool.

I have also read the Emerald Tablets of Thoth, the first time not understanding a word. As my meditation experiences continued, re-reading the tablets made more sense and the third time of reading them a couple of years later I finally understood. It's a how to access the knowledge guide, pretty much step by step. It begins by saying that access to the knowledge must be gained astrally and as the chapters continue they only make sense with the experiences I have had already in meditation. I don't think I'll ever be brave enough to see all the stages through to be honest as overcoming fear completely is the key.

Hope I'm not coming across as a fruitloop, but that's my belief and my experience of under the Sphinx.  I had no knowledge whatsoever of the Sphinx or the Pyramids before these meditations, thankfully, I managed to validate a lot of it afterwards with other people's experiences and images of what has already been discovered.





   I could see how that would work...  sort of like psychometry.....

http://paranormal.about.com/cs/espinformation/a/aa063003.htm


#66    crystal sage

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 02:20 PM

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I have to agree with you.. Call me stupid but i always find it better when people have information that correlates with one another, even if each is providing small snippets of what they've read..



You see you have to come to SOME mutual understanding, lots and lots and lots of different oppinions HAVE to collerate in some way even if it's only in a small way.. Like why was this built before or after, how old is this how old is that.

I know it may be annoying to read everybody's beliefs but IF you read what everybody says and peice it together in your mind you will see minor connections and even the smallest connection is a strong one in regards to a puzzle.

You should all start reasoning with one another rather than barging in declairing who's right and who's wrong.. Stop posting links please and share YOUR beliefs.. When you read articles, ask yourself questions, don't believe in the article try to understand and question it, try to see/find a connection to other articles you've read.  That's what i always do i don't look at one particular point of view i look at all points of view and i search for a connection of some sort and so on.



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#67    crystal sage

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 02:23 PM

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x monument.  Period.

Additionally, given that the stela was erected over or around a thousand years after the sphinx was carved, and the sphinx in that era was covered with sand from the neck down, I find it quite unlikely that Tutmose would be aware of any chamber or room under the sphinx, and so I also find it quite unlikely that any thinking person has ever proposed that the artwork on the Dream Stela, which depicts two sphinxes, a motif that was fairly common in Tutmose's day, indicates the existence of a secret room under the sphinx.

extremely suspect.  


was

linked-image

Here's a drawing of the artwork as it appears across the top of the Stela:
linked-image

Both show somewhat common representations of the god Harmakhis.
Did he get to the part about the graffiti left by the workers inside previously-sealed relief chambers located above the King's Chamber in the G.P.?

Harte





More proof of there having been 2 Sphinx's !!!

In that case as often seemed the custom of the old days ... there should have been a tunnel connecting them!!!!

(from my previous post) "
" In Egypt it is known that Sphinxes came in pairs.
Archaeologist Michael Poe is certain of a second Sphinx. He wrote: (fragmentary papyrus) said that there was another Sphinx facing this one on the other side of the Nile,
Not only did the ancient Egyptians mention a second Sphinx, but so did the Greeks, Romans, and Muslims. It was destroyed between 1000-1200 ad.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/7808/page1.html


Edited by crystal sage, 04 April 2007 - 02:42 PM.


#68    Harte

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 05:40 PM

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More proof of there having been 2 Sphinx's !!!


Good God!  Why do I even try?

The illustration I posted comes from a stone tablet place between the Sphinx's paws after it was excavated and repaired by Tutmoses IV sometime after 1450 BC in the era of the New Kingdom in Ancient Egypt. No mention is made about any second sphinx on this tablet.  No mention in any official Egyptian writings about it, and nothing but rumor about any second sphinx nearby.  This illustration, and the tablet it's carved on, post-date the sphinx itself by at least a thousand years.  Hence, this tablet is certainly not "proof" of anything at all, much less "proof" of the existence of more than one great sphinx.

That being said, I must say that of course there are a great many sphinxes in Egypt.  They're all much smaller than the great sphinx, obviously.  It could be that one or more of these other sphinxes may be what is referred to in the rumors about sphinxes that were circulating thousands of years after the great sphinx was carved.

Quote

In that case as often seemed the custom of the old days ... there should have been a tunnel connecting them!!!!

Balderdash. It may seem to "often" be "the custom" to you, but I say it certainly was not the custom at all.

Quote

(from my previous post) "
" In Egypt it is known that Sphinxes came in pairs.
Archaeologist Michael Poe is certain of a second Sphinx. He wrote: (fragmentary papyrus) said that there was another Sphinx facing this one on the other side of the Nile,
Not only did the ancient Egyptians mention a second Sphinx, but so did the Greeks, Romans, and Muslims. It was destroyed between 1000-1200 ad.

More crap.

Poe is by no means "certain.   Here's what he says:

Quote

There is currently absolutely no archaeological evidence of Khephren 'repairing' the Sphinx. There are two ancient Egyptian references, both during the Middle Kingdom, at a considerably later time. One has it that Khephren found the Sphinx (which would support the Sphinx is older than Khepern), and that Khephern altered it's face. This same source (fragmentary papyrus) said that there was another Sphinx facing this one on the other side of the Nile, and both were built here to represent the dividing line between Northern and Southern Egypt. The other reference said that Khephren built the Sphinx.

Have you ever seen just one Sphinx in later Egypt that didn't have another? Not only did the ancient Egyptians mention a second Sphinx, but so did the Greeks, Romans, and Muslims. It was destroyed between 1000-1200 ad.

At the entrance to buildings and temples there are two Sphinxes, side by side, but on the avenue or approach to the temple they are facing each other. Sometimes they may have as much as 100 or so facing each other in the avenue. The Nile is Egypt's avenue between North and South. All of the writings about the two Sphinxes say that they were facing each other. The second one, by the way, was partly destroyed during a high Nile flood, and then completely destroyed by ensuing Moslems carting it off to rebuild their villages.

I'm not particularly proposing it's absolutely true, after all the people in Egypt in the 1000-1200's were subject to telling some pretty big stories (so are some the present day "guides").

It was, as I recall, made out of mudbrick and faced with stone. It makes sense that the stone would disappear around 1200 ad, Cairo had a large earthquake and the people used facing stones from the Great Pyramid to rebuild part of the town and would also use the ones at the 2nd Sphinx. That would leave the mudbrick to deteriorate to the weather, and the Nile gradually moved east away from the pyramids and may have engulfed and erased the 2nd Sphinx.

The Arab writers who mention a 2nd Sphinx are:

Al-I'Drisi (AD 1099-1166) who wrote about it in Kitab al-Mamalik wa al-Mansalik (a large geographic encyclopedia) and Al-Kitab al-Jujari, a geographical encyclopedia on Asia and Africa. He describes a second sphinx across the Nile from the first in very bad state of repair, made of mud (bricks?) and faced with stone, most of the stone having been hauled away by local inhabitants and now the Nile "lapping at it's feet." He doesn't say if it was the same size, but since the Nile moved further east after AD 1166, then it would have been destroyed.

Ibn Battuta (AD 1307-1377) in his Travels in Asia and Africa doesn't mention it, either because it doesn't exist, or has already been destroyed by then (it was written around AD 1325-1354).

Musabbihi mentions a smaller Sphinx across the Nile from the large one "south of Cairo" in a "ruined state of brick and stone" in the Annals of Rabi II around AD 1024.

Nasir-i Khosrau visited Egypt between Aug 1047 and April 1048 and heard rumors of a second one but apparently never looked for it or saw it.

It could have been a larger than usual Sphinx that normally lines the road to a temple and was the last of the line left after the Nile crept over to the location and destroyed all the others, easy to visualize as the destruction of the outer stones of the others would leave the mudbrick exterior subject to the flooding of the Nile.
(My emphases.)
Source: The Excellent Catchpenny site that I'm going to start twisting arms if members here don't start going there to learn something about the things they post about here.

Harte


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#69    louie

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 06:09 PM

Quote

Good God!  Why do I even try?

The illustration I posted comes from a stone tablet place between the Sphinx's paws after it was excavated and repaired by Tutmoses IV sometime after 1450 BC in the era of the New Kingdom in Ancient Egypt. No mention is made about any second sphinx on this tablet.  No mention in any official Egyptian writings about it, and nothing but rumor about any second sphinx nearby.  This illustration, and the tablet it's carved on, post-date the sphinx itself by at least a thousand years.  Hence, this tablet is certainly not "proof" of anything at all, much less "proof" of the existence of more than one great sphinx.

That being said, I must say that of course there are a great many sphinxes in Egypt.  They're all much smaller than the great sphinx, obviously.  It could be that one or more of these other sphinxes may be what is referred to in the rumors about sphinxes that were circulating thousands of years after the great sphinx was carved.
Balderdash. It may seem to "often" be "the custom" to you, but I say it certainly was not the custom at all.
More crap.

Poe is by no means "certain.   Here's what he says:
(My emphases.)
Source: The Excellent Catchpenny site that I'm going to start twisting arms if members here don't start going there to learn something about the things they post about here.

Harte

Question, the last time you visited the Pyramid site, did you ever question the guides about the possiblities of second sphinx, or any alternative theorys.

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#70    Wiccanboy

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 06:25 PM

Hi i'm new
*waves*
Well not new, but first time posting.

I've been looking through this thread and any background info on the Sphinx, and much of it links to Atlantis (supposedly), I remember reading a book *Discovering Atlantis: A Guide to Reclaiming the Wisdom of the Ancients, by Diana Cooper and Shaaron Hutton* and it stated that the Sphinx is the guardian of the Earth, who powers are waning (we need to give it energy to protect us again..) - not too sure on that personally.

Do you think it was built to 'protect'  or to store information, scrolls, tomb, ect..
Has anyone else heard of this?

Forgive my ignorance if this has been posted beforehand

Luke


#71    crystal sage

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 12:42 AM

Quote

Good God!  Why do I even try?

The illustration I posted comes from a stone tablet place between the Sphinx's paws after it was excavated and repaired by Tutmoses IV sometime after 1450 BC in the era of the New Kingdom in Ancient Egypt. No mention is made about any second sphinx on this tablet.  No mention in any official Egyptian writings about it, and nothing but rumor about any second sphinx nearby.  This illustration, and the tablet it's carved on, post-date the sphinx itself by at least a thousand years.  Hence, this tablet is certainly not "proof" of anything at all, much less "proof" of the existence of more than one great sphinx.

Harte



The graffittiests could have possibly been updated info... certainly could have been like our journalists... historians of the time... recording an ommission or addition... carving in for posterity the record that there definitaly were two Sphinxes... Hey it wasn't a case of s quick spray paint job done in the dead of the night like modern graffitiests..it would have taken quite some time... and as it was most likely they would have been commissioned...  can anyone here translate it???


http://www.areclinic.org/articles.asp?articleid=36

Edited by crystal sage, 06 April 2007 - 12:46 AM.


#72    The Gremlin

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 01:10 AM

Quote

The graffittiests could have possibly been updated info... certainly could have been like our journalists... historians of the time... recording an ommission or addition... carving in for posterity the record that there definitaly were two Sphinxes... Hey it wasn't a case of s quick spray paint job done in the dead of the night like modern graffitiests..it would have taken quite some time... and as it was most likely they would have been commissioned...  can anyone here translate it???
http://www.areclinic.org/articles.asp?articleid=36


when there are two sphinxes they generally face eachother. the theory of the second sphinx is vague, one argument places it on the other side of the river, the other...as u posted it places it behind the sphinx on the plateau facing the other way...as depicted on the stelae.
there seems no reliable evidence for either. Ive been to the plateau twice in the last few years, and there is no way that there was another comparable sphinx on the plateau. no way at all. i doubt there was one directly opposite on the other bank of the nile either. but ive never been to that exact spot looking for things. And dont think that, because of the elevation of the plateau, that it would have been possible to achieve the symetry without a supreme and grand, and highly conspicuous effort. perhaps a check on google earth might reveal something, but i would be very surprised if it did.
perhaps im wrong.
the way i see it the stelae shows two interactions with the same monument.

I rarely talk about such things but I once shoveled 18 tons of material in 11 min-
utes. It was under ideal conditions which allowed use of the legs and gravity
but I know no one who could have matched it and I do know work
.
...Cladking
If you were a dragon wouldn't you rather eat fat, alocohol fill, Nordic giants, than stringy little Chinamen?   Draconic Chronicler.
You claim you do research and then disregard the fact the Pyramids were built by God, which is why no man-made computer can replicate it.  The Interpreter

#73    The Gremlin

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 01:21 AM

heres one reconstruction of the sphinx complex in relation to the nile...it shows that the monument was not actually on the banks of the river itself...
ill look for other reconstructions.

Attached Thumbnails

  • gizaoriginal.jpg

I rarely talk about such things but I once shoveled 18 tons of material in 11 min-
utes. It was under ideal conditions which allowed use of the legs and gravity
but I know no one who could have matched it and I do know work
.
...Cladking
If you were a dragon wouldn't you rather eat fat, alocohol fill, Nordic giants, than stringy little Chinamen?   Draconic Chronicler.
You claim you do research and then disregard the fact the Pyramids were built by God, which is why no man-made computer can replicate it.  The Interpreter

#74    crystal sage

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 01:30 AM

http://www.satellite-sightseer.com/id/2025..._Sphinx_of_Giza

There is a space for it......


#75    The Gremlin

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 01:47 AM

i agree theres plenty of space behind it, ive been all over the plateau many times between the sphinx and the pyramids....and im not the only one. but there is no evidence that the ground has been worked in such a way as to indicate another monument like the sphinx. remember the sphinx was carved out of a single natural outcrop. a second massive monument would leave traces. especially if it were entirely 'constructed'.
also where there are two sphinxes in relation with eachother they face inward, or the same direction.
i cant think of a single example of two sphinxes facing away, where this occurs in depictions it is the same sphinx.
look at depictions of a pharoah being prepared for the afterlife, he appears in the same picture a number of times at different stages of the process, like tuthmosis in the stelae. this is common in egyptian depictions.

I rarely talk about such things but I once shoveled 18 tons of material in 11 min-
utes. It was under ideal conditions which allowed use of the legs and gravity
but I know no one who could have matched it and I do know work
.
...Cladking
If you were a dragon wouldn't you rather eat fat, alocohol fill, Nordic giants, than stringy little Chinamen?   Draconic Chronicler.
You claim you do research and then disregard the fact the Pyramids were built by God, which is why no man-made computer can replicate it.  The Interpreter




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