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mutations by humans


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#31    Isis2200

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 10:36 PM

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I have an illness and all those fancy drugs only made it worse ( ^__^ ) you assume I am completely ignorant to the suffering of people because I don't agree with torturing little animals for treatments that probably wont work that well and have lots of side effects? Most animal testing is not useful.


Kaylee, I know exactly what you're saying.  Also, I saw an episode of Nature on TV where a lady had become acquainted with a group of chimps who had been used throughout their childhood for human experimentation.  After 20 years they had been released into a sanctuary.   Then they showed another chimp who was in a cage.  The chimp was only twenty but it looked like it was a very old chimp.  It lie down and looked into the camera with sad eyes.  The narrator said "This chimp was responsible for helping us find a cure for Parkinson's(somethng to that effect).  Two days later it died as a result of experimentation.  

Up here in Oregon at the Oregon Health Sciences University, there is a monkey called nothing other than "Monkey 14609".  It has had it's penis electroejaculated hundreds of times as part of experimentation.

What if an intelligently and technologically superior alien race came to Earth and began using us for experimentation, cutting into us and injecting us with harmful substances.  What if human men had their penises electroejaculated hundreds of times during their lifetime?  What then?  But many people would say "Oh no, we're human, and we're talking about mere animals.  You can't compare the two."  To that I say, "Oh yes you can."

And as you say, Kaylee, several drugs make it worse with side effects they don't even tell us about. rolleyes.gif

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#32    Kalien

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 11:10 PM

The Drug companies aren't interested in cures anyway, some of those people looking for them care but its all about money. Poor animals sad.gif


#33    aussiemermaid

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 11:15 PM

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Half the time, it seems as if they are experimenting just for the sake of it or for curiosity purposes, that makes me mad. Regarding the jellyfish thing for instance, why the hell did they try (and by the looks of it succeed) to create a glowing jellyfish?

Sometimes I think their energies could be much better spent elsewhere.


Its all for manipulation of chemical cells and genes. Its so scientists can determine which cells can be changed, manipulated, deleted or replaced. Its also about which genes of certian species can interact and function in another animal. Its like Pig cells can be used in humans for organ replacement theropy.

Its also too see if the manipulation of genes will affect life expetency and the animals quality of life, which they can then use the data to determine whether or not to use gene replacement therepy in humans.

I for one, am not for it. I dont believe we should play around with animal genes, or our own.


#34    Mattshark

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 11:34 PM

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I have an illness and all those fancy drugs only made it worse ( ^__^ ) you assume I am completely ignorant to the suffering of people because I don't agree with torturing little animals for treatments that probably wont work that well and have lots of side effects? Most animal testing is not useful.

But the vast majority of the time of the time treatments do make you much better, they are also still they are trailed on volunteers before market release.
As I have also stated majority of animal testing is at embryo level and is for gene therapy testing and usually on lab mice or chickens or drosophila or on lab mice in venomolgy.
It is not about torturing animals, unlike the Shamu show, which very people would consider protesting. (Despite it being something banned in all but 7 countries as a cruel practice)


Isis2200, no one has any dinosaur DNA because there isn't any to have. Also animal testing is not how it was 20-30 years ago there are much stricter animal treatment laws than there are now

Aussiemermaid, would you responce be the same if you had a child who was dying?

Edited by Mattshark, 21 March 2007 - 11:39 PM.

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#35    Kalien

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 03:49 AM

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But the vast majority of the time of the time treatments do make you much better, they are also still they are trailed on volunteers before market release.
As I have also stated majority of animal testing is at embryo level and is for gene therapy testing and usually on lab mice or chickens or drosophila or on lab mice in venomolgy.
It is not about torturing animals, unlike the Shamu show, which very people would consider protesting. (Despite it being something banned in all but 7 countries as a cruel practice)
Isis2200, no one has any dinosaur DNA because there isn't any to have. Also animal testing is not how it was 20-30 years ago there are much stricter animal treatment laws than there are now

Aussiemermaid, would you responce be the same if you had a child who was dying?



My Grandma has cancer, and my Mother needs kidney transplants, but I still not approve of making animals suffer with these conditions or worse, and neithier does my Grandma and mother.


#36    MissMelsWell

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 07:41 AM

This is such a tough subject and I'm torn on it.

I have a nephew who has OSI III (Osteogenesis Imperfecta Stage III -- commonly known as Brittle Bone Disease) It's a birth defect that's also a very rare genetic mutation. It's somewhat difficult to diagnos and it wrongfully landed my sister-in-law in jail for child abuse--she eventually had to abduct him and take him out of state to get a proper diagnosis. I really wish to heck and back that they'd find a cure for this and why this gene mutates. It breaks my heart to see this vibrant now teenager in a constant state of mind racking pain and suffering.

There are times where I really really want to support some animal testing to cure diseases like this and Parkinsons and others. But at the same time, testing on animals I find very difficult to come to grips with as an animal lover.

I have never been able to come to terms with the entire concept. My faith and heart says it's wrong, my brain says it could be right.

I know personally that I carry two unique genetic mutations! My dentist keeps telling me I'm a product of Evolution. Basically, I have no Wisdom teeth and neither does my sister! We have both passed this mutation down to our daughters! Many people have wisdom teeth, but they never actually erupt or cause problems. My sister and I have NONE. This is very rare from what I'm told. They call it evolutionary because as humans, we have no need for wisdom teeth and in the last 20 years, more and more people are turning up without any sign of having any at all. We actually had our heads x-rayed in the 80's grin2.gif at a university hospital to verify that we didn't have any, we were quite the little lab rats that day. haha

The second mutation? I carry the gene for Hemophilia. It appears that I am the last carrier in my family line as well. As the generations went on, the gene petered out and by a stroke of luck, I did not pass it on to my daughter! That's it, it's gone there are no more women in my family who will produce either a bleeder boy, or a carrier girl. It also appears that the gene became weaker over the years as it was passed down as well. Our early ancestors were terrible bleeders and died young. One of my uncles is the last bleeder in the line and his form of hemophila is mild, he does not have to have regular transfusions, he just has to be careful that he doesn't severly break a bone or suffer any deep gashes, it would probably be a poor idea to punch him in the stomach as well.

I'm glad that I'm the end of it and that my daughter is free of the gene. Yea!

Edited by MissMelsWell, 22 March 2007 - 07:47 AM.

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#37    Mattshark

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 02:24 PM

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My Grandma has cancer, and my Mother needs kidney transplants, but I still not approve of making animals suffer with these conditions or worse, and neithier does my Grandma and mother.

Yes but a kidney from a pig is not going to make an animal suffer. I don't approve on making animals suffer either. But you must remember that not all animal test is bad and there (in most countries) strict laws on the treatment of the animals, especially here in the UK, we have some of the strictest captive animals laws in the world.

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#38    ASOP

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 02:38 PM

I still agree with Kaylee and Isis2200 animal testing is wrong animals and humans ARE NOT THE SAME.


#39    Mattshark

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 02:49 PM

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I still agree with Kaylee and Isis2200 animal testing is wrong animals and humans ARE NOT THE SAME.

Well we are though, most animals are extremely similar to each other, including humans.

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#40    The_Atheist_Mind

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 02:52 PM

2 words, sick bastards!!!! i think that conveys my point. . .

Wow... That's expensive... Must be good! *Buys satellite TV from overpriced distributor.*
*Watches a premium channel.* Oh dear... This is the same as what my friend got! *Looks down, frustrated.* Oh! A link!
A link to affordable television! Cheaper than you might expect...

#41    ASOP

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 03:03 PM

How are humans and animals similar? Cats,dogs,rats they are in no way similar to humans. Unless you are refering to pain.


#42    Legatus Legionis

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 03:24 PM

i'm at the neutral side. Animal Test Subjects are either good nor evil. in a way that scientist use them to help us cure disease but other inhumane people use them as cosmetics subjects that are brutal and evil. making the topic neutral for me. that my point of view. but the point of view of others greatly defer from mine.


#43    Isis2200

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 03:55 PM

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My Grandma has cancer, and my Mother needs kidney transplants, but I still not approve of making animals suffer with these conditions or worse, and neithier does my Grandma and mother.


Kaylee, I agree with you 100%.   If I had cancer or AIDS I would never ever want them to experiment on animals so they could find a cure for my disease or condition.   Although I do seek medical attention when I need to, if I had the choice whether to treat a condition and have them experiment with animals, or have my condition continue to possibly death, I choose the latter.

You, your mother and grandmother seem like very compassionate people.  yes.gif  

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Edited by Isis2200, 23 March 2007 - 05:36 AM.


#44    Kalien

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 05:51 PM

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Kaylee, I agree with you 100%.   If I had cancer or AIDS I would never ever want them to experiment on animals so they could find a cure for my disease or cndition.   Although I do seek medical attention when I need to, if I had the choice whether to treat a condition and have them experiment with animals, or have my condition continue to possibly death, I choose the latter.

You, your mother and grandmother seem like very compassionate people.  yes.gif  

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Same, I couldn't be ok with hundreds of little animals having to suffer with what I suffer just because they don't want to look for a cure some other way ( and of course there are other ways)


#45    Raptor

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 06:28 PM

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How are humans and animals similar? Cats,dogs,rats they are in no way similar to humans. Unless you are refering to pain.


In terms of biochemistry we're extremely similar.





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