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Plagues of Exodus


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Poll: Your opinion (26 member(s) have cast votes)

Plagues of Exodus natural, or miraculous?

  1. Natural Occurences (14 votes [53.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.85%

  2. Wrath of God (7 votes [26.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.92%

  3. A little of both (5 votes [19.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.23%

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#151    thaphantum

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 02:14 AM

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WOW!.....I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to hear more about this.  I'm totally intrigued.  Now that you have piqued my interests, please dear sir, share.  innocent.gif


oh yeah... now you want to hear it when PA posts it... but when i posted it... you ignored me...  crying.gif

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#152    airika

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 02:33 AM

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oh yeah... now you want to hear it when PA posts it... but when i posted it... you ignored me...  crying.gif


OMG you did?  I'm SOOO sorry.  I don't remember you posting anything like that...I shall go back and read through your posts again.....I really am sorry...  innocent.gif  forgive me??  *bats lashes*


#153    Paranoid Android

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 02:44 AM

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Did the plagues prove that the gods of Egypt didn't exist, or that the Biblical God was more powerful?
It proves that if the Egyptian gods exist, they were powerless to stop or even hinder Yahweh.  There are many other passages in scripture though (Isaiah 6, from memory, though I dont' have a bible to check it out for certain) that state that all other gods are simply idols, created by the hands of man.  Put the two together, and I think it proves they didn't exist.  Now, whether you believe what the BIble says is quite separate - I'm just showing you what the Bible does say.

Quote

WOW!.....I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to hear more about this.  I'm totally intrigued.  Now that you have piqued my interests, please dear sir, share.  innocent.gif
No worries airika thumbsup.gif  Here's my old post.

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The First Plague - the Nile is turned to blood. The River Nile is believed to represent the Egyptian god Hapi. Hapi was portrayed as a god with a beard like a man, but had female features and a pregnant stomach like a woman’s. The river Nile was the life of Egypt. It provided water and food in the form of fish for the Egyptians. Hence Hapi was seen as the god that kept Egypt alive by providing water and food. God here turns the Nile to blood. Hapi can no longer give life and food to Egypt. God here is proved more powerful than Hapi.

The second plague - God brings forth frogs from the Nile and plagues the whole country. They enter into Pharaoh’s palace, his bedroom, bed and also goes into the houses of his officials. The Egyptians regarded the frogs as a symbol of their goddess Hekkhet. Hekkhet was the god of childbirth. She was also the one that controlled the number of frogs in Egypt. This plague shows that God overpowered Hekkhet and that He controls the frogs and childbirth, and not Hekkhet.

The Third and Fourth Plague - The third and fourth plagues go together. The third plague is the plague of Gnats and the fourth is of flies. Both these plagues were flying plagues. The Egyptian god Khelprer was symbolised by a flying beetle. Here God shows that he controls the Gnats and flies, not Khelprer.

The Fifth Plague - The fifth plague was a plague upon the domesticated animals of Egypt. Ancient Egyptians viewed the domesticated bulls as the embodiment of the great Egyptian gods Ptah and Re. Numerous important female deities were also pictured as livestock animals. Isis, queen of the gods had cow’s horn on her head. The livestock animals provided necessities to the people in the form of food, milk, clothing, and transportation. But Yahweh destroyed these animals to show that he is more powerful then these gods.

THe Sixth Plague - In the sixth plague, boils affected the men and the animals. The Egyptian goddess Sekhmet was the deity of the plagues. She was responsible for epidemics in ancient Egypt but she also had the power to heal those who were visited by these pestilence as well. Well, Yahweh sends boils upon the men and the animals and no one can stop it. Not even the goddess Sekhmet. Yahweh is more powerful than Sekhmet.

The seventh Plague - God rains down hail from heaven of such a force that the Egyptians had never seen before. Here, the Egyptian gods Nut, Shu and Tefnut, all sky gods, were all powerless against God.

The Eighth and Ninth plague - The eighth plague of locusts ridiculed Senehem, the God of pests. And the ninth plague, the plague of darkness ridiculed Amon-Re, the Egyptian Sun god.

The tenth Plague - And what about the tenth plague. Well, the tenth plague was directed at Pharaoh himself. Pharaoh was seen as a god of Egypt. Pharaoh’s firstborn and all Egypt’s firstborn were killed in this plague. And it is with this act that God proves that Pharaoh  is not a god.  It is with the conclusion of this plague that Pharaoh realises he can't win, let's the Israelites go.

This tenth plague has special significance for Christians today. In this tenth plague, God passes over the houses of those that had the blood of a lamb stained over their doors. For those that did not have the blood stains over their doors, which would have been the Egyptians, all their firstborn died.  This has special significance today because Jesus on the night that he was betrayed celebrated this event called The Passover. And when Jesus celebrated this event, he referred to his body and blood as a sacrifice for our sins. The blood of a lamb on the doors saved the Israelites, the blood of Jesus, who is also referred to as the lamb of God, saves those that put their trust in him.

The ten plagues showed Yahweh’s awesome power. That he was more powerful than Pharaoh and all the Egyptian God’s put together. God showed his power and he does so to glorify his own name.

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Hope that is of help original.gif

Edited by Paranoid Android, 04 April 2007 - 02:45 AM.

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#154    airika

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 02:51 AM

My dear friend PA,

Thank you VERY much for that.  I sersiously enjoyed reading that.  It's an interesting take the "hidden agenda" of god.  If you don't mind, I would like to save that to my computer.


#155    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 02:52 AM

you go PA LOL...now that explains it

but see I dont understand why God would need to do all of that...why couldnt God have just destroyed the idiot pharoah?? would have saved all of that trouble...

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#156    IamsSon

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 02:55 AM

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you go PA LOL...now that explains it

but see I dont understand why God would need to do all of that...why couldnt God have just destroyed the idiot pharoah?? would have saved all of that trouble...

BM, you need to remember that God has a plan.  God didn't just do those things to free Israel, He also did it so we could learn from it.  Otherwise you're right, why go to all this trouble.

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#157    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 03:09 AM

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BM, you need to remember that God has a plan.  God didn't just do those things to free Israel, He also did it so we could learn from it.  Otherwise you're right, why go to all this trouble.

Ohh IAMS I so understand where you are coming from..trust me, im an ex chrsitian..belive you me..I KNOW...but see...with God being so powerful..he dont need to do this...set and lead by example...show a much better way to show the pharoah you mean business and only take it up with the pharoah...not everyone else...especially the innocent..that had sweet nothing to do with it...

Sorry IAMS but I think God deserves a lot more credit than that...I cant see God as a killer...I belive God can handle things in better ways....some people will say - well if God is so concerned about some lousey pharoah treating people like slaves and not setting them free, well then whats his excuse for iraq?? why didnt God do the same to Saddam?? or HITLER??...hmm?? I'll tell you why because God dont work that way IMO..he has his plans YES, but not harsh to take lives of innocent people........please understand where I am coming from

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#158    IamsSon

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 03:22 AM

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Ohh IAMS I so understand where you are coming from..trust me, im an ex chrsitian..belive you me..I KNOW...but see...with God being so powerful..he dont need to do this...set and lead by example...show a much better way to show the pharoah you mean business and only take it up with the pharoah...not everyone else...especially the innocent..that had sweet nothing to do with it...

Sorry IAMS but I think God deserves a lot more credit than that...I cant see God as a killer...I belive God can handle things in better ways....some people will say - well if God is so concerned about some lousey pharoah treating people like slaves and not setting them free, well then whats his excuse for iraq?? why didnt God do the same to Saddam?? or HITLER??...hmm?? I'll tell you why because God dont work that way IMO..he has his plans YES, but not harsh to take lives of innocent people........please understand where I am coming from

I understand where your coming from.  And sure all of us could sit around and say, "Well, if I were God, I would ...."  But we don't know exactly why God did/is doing things the way He did/does.  Maybe if we knew God's plan, we would actually end up doing things exactly the same way because then we would see that was the best way to do it.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#159    Sherapy

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 05:39 AM

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BM, you need to remember that God has a plan.  God didn't just do those things to free Israel, He also did it so we could learn from it.  Otherwise you're right, why go to all this trouble.

A plan that is cryptic too I see...I have to ask whats the lesson Son???? this is 'god'  can't he wiggle his nose , or  rub a lantern or something put out a e-mail,  click his heels three times, how about those plagues ......If I was a betting woman I'd say the writers of the bible  made this stuff up... *shrugs*


Edited by Supra Sheri, 04 April 2007 - 05:43 AM.


#160    Cadetak

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 06:23 AM

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Cadet, if you are going to try to argue that God as described in the Bible is a killer, then you are also going to have to accept all of the description of God in the Bible, which means you have to accept He is the CREATOR, He is the only and final authority on what God does or does not do with what He MADE.  Many Christians try to soft-peddle God, they try to back away from what the Bible chronicles God has done.  I don't do that, I know I worship an awesome God, a being with all ALL authority over life and death, a being who has shown just how powerful and mighty He is, who has shown just how amazing His love for me as an individual is, by showing just how easily He can take life, countless lives away.  God is a being who should be feared and dreaded, but He chooses to show love and patience.
Again, you are not comparing apples to apples.  we do not have the same right/authority as the one who actually made everything in the universe simply by saying it.


This is where you and I differ. I see no reason to assume that the creator gets the authority to pass such judgements. Yes he may have created everything...but that alone doesn't give him the justification to rule and destroy his creations and there is no real reason for me to believe in that.

We differ on another subject too...I believe in equality and freedom in their most simple and complex forms. I judge everything by the same standards. No entity is any greater or less then another...animal to man, man to god, and god to animal. Why should I assume otherwise?

God may be all powerful, omnipotent, all-intelligent...but in my eye he is not all-good, all-merciful, or perfect. Why is God's perspective and opinion and greater or less then mine?

God can destroy us all if he wanted too...but that doesn't mean it is right. Just because you have the power to do something doesn't give you the right to do it.

Things such as Fear and Worship go against the very fabric of my belief. I'm not going to alter what I think just because it doesn't fit with what God thinks. God's actions may be reasonable and justifiable but that doesn't make them right, that doesn't make them good.

When I die and meet God in heaven I will thank him for his gifts but before he judges me I will judge him.

God may have created my life but through pure free will I created who I am. I have always said that it was Ironic that among all God's creations his favorites are the best suited to defy him and judge him. After all I'm judging God by his own standards.

Quote

we do not have the same right/authority as the one who actually made everything in the universe simply by saying it.


Why does God get the authority/right? Just because he said so and you believe it?



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#161    airika

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 06:28 AM

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This is where you and I differ. I see no reason to assume that the creator gets the authority to pass such judgements. Yes he may have created everything...but that alone doesn't give him the justification to rule and destroy his creations and there is no real reason for me to believe in that.

We differ on another subject too...I believe in equality and freedom in their most simple and complex forms. I judge everything by the same standards. No entity is any greater or less then another...animal to man, man to god, and god to animal. Why should I assume otherwise?

God may be all powerful, omnipotent, all-intelligent...but in my eye he is not all-good, all-merciful, or perfect. Why is God's perspective and opinion and greater or less then mine?

God can destroy us all if he wanted too...but that doesn't mean it is right. Just because you have the power to do something doesn't give you the right to do it.

Things such as Fear and Worship go against the very fabric of my belief. I'm not going to alter what I think just because it doesn't fit with what God thinks. God's actions may be reasonable and justifiable but that doesn't make them right, that doesn't make them good.

When I die and meet God in heaven I will thank him for his gifts but before he judges me I will judge him.

God may have created my life but through pure free will I created who I am. I have always said that it was Ironic that among all God's creations his favorites are the best suited to defy him and judge him. After all I'm judging God by his own standards.
Why does God get the authority/right? Just because he said so and you believe it?


HERE HERE!!   wub.gif
Wonderful post.  *wishes she was brave enough to judge God*  I guess I'll just stick around earth and haunt everyone.  hmm.gif


#162    ND-DAVE

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 06:36 AM

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A plan that is cryptic too I see...I have to ask whats the lesson Son???? this is 'god'  can't he wiggle his nose , or  rub a lantern or something put out a e-mail,  click his heels three times, how about those plagues ......If I was a betting woman I'd say the writers of the bible  made this stuff up... *shrugs*


Look over all your past experiences that you can remeber good and bad and follow them up to this very day. These things happened for a reason to bring you to where you are today and were you'll be in the future. We make our own destiny every second of every day in our lives. This is the plan included in our free will. We have complete control over everything we do in our lives, what we dont have control over is the concequences that follow those choices. There is a concequece for every action we do in our lives, good or bad. For Bible reference to how we have free will but still follow the big plan, read the story of Samson in the book of Judges. The Judges in the book were basicly considered and put on earth as the enforcers of God's law in those times. Samson was a judge that had a rebelious side. Read it and it will give a explaination to the plan God puts out for us.

One point that has been missled but constantly argued is the differences between Heaven and Earth. Christ preaches basicly this, Why cling to this world and the bland worldly treasures and pleasures when there are greater ones awaiting in Heaven. What is really the point of collecting and obtaining here on earth? Can you take it with you when you die? No. But what do you take with you to the afterlife? Nothing. All you have when you die basicly is your soul. And life is short and death is right behind you on your walk of life. Slowly but shurly catching up with you until finnally, Tag you It! You never know when you'll die but you'll allways know your alive while your living. All you really need in life is the neccessities to sustain your life. Everything else is superficial and should be treated as such.  

Look at it this way, death is the doorway to the second life. Only those that cling to this world and the material wealth accuired in it will reject death and fear it because they either dont want to leave what they have obtained or fear after death there is no afterlife and basicly you are nothing. Christ states that no matter what the burden or wickedness experienced here on earth will be it will be reversed an eternal fold in Heaven. "And he will wipe away every tear and take away all sorrow felt." The true message is dont cling to this world entirely because it is not your final destination or were you really belong.

To judge one another is to damn one another and to damn ourselves. I am the diligent Paladin who looks not to cast sinfull judgement on his fellow people, but will take up my sword and sheild to protect and help them one and all.

#163    bornagainuhmanduh

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 06:52 AM

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Look over all your past experiences that you can remeber good and bad and follow them up to this very day. These things happened for a reason to bring you to where you are today and were you'll be in the future. We make our own destiny every second of every day in our lives. This is the plan included in our free will. We have complete control over everything we do in our lives, what we dont have control over is the concequences that follow those choices. There is a concequece for every action we do in our lives, good or bad. For Bible reference to how we have free will but still follow the big plan, read the story of Samson in the book of Judges. The Judges in the book were basicly considered and put on earth as the enforcers of God's law in those times. Samson was a judge that had a rebelious side. Read it and it will give a explaination to the plan God puts out for us.

One point that has been missled but constantly argued is the differences between Heaven and Earth. Christ preaches basicly this, Why cling to this world and the bland worldly treasures and pleasures when there are greater ones awaiting in Heaven. What is really the point of collecting and obtaining here on earth? Can you take it with you when you die? No. But what do you take with you to the afterlife? Nothing. All you have when you die basicly is your soul. And life is short and death is right behind you on your walk of life. Slowly but shurly catching up with you until finnally, Tag you It! You never know when you'll die but you'll allways know your alive while your living. All you really need in life is the neccessities to sustain your life. Everything else is superficial and should be treated as such.  

Look at it this way, death is the doorway to the second life. Only those that cling to this world and the material wealth accuired in it will reject death and fear it because they either dont want to leave what they have obtained or fear after death there is no afterlife and basicly you are nothing. Christ states that no matter what the burden or wickedness experienced here on earth will be it will be reversed an eternal fold in Heaven. "And he will wipe away every tear and take away all sorrow felt." The true message is dont cling to this world entirely because it is not your final destination or were you really belong.


In your first paragraph, you mention choices and consequences.  I know someone who got an abortion back in the 70's.  This is because she was 18 at the time and in college.  She could have married this guy and had the kid, but she chose not to.  After this, she met another guy, married him and had 2 kids.  They had massive problems in the marriage, there was substance abuse, affairs, etc.  About 10 years ago the husband started going to Church and then she did about 5 years ago.  They are now Christian.  I can't help but wonder, if she had decided to keep that baby, would she even be Christian now?

As far as your second paragraph: I am not Christian, and I actually hate the system that we hold so dear, acquiring wealth, money, possessions, material things.  In fact, I know Christians who love their stuff and their money just as much as anyone else.  And I'm not afraid of dying.  There isn't anything special about me. In some ways, I think many, not all, but many who believe in the Christian Heaven/similar Heavens have a problem with dying.

Edited by uhmanduh, 04 April 2007 - 06:53 AM.

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#164    ND-DAVE

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 08:55 AM

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In your first paragraph, you mention choices and consequences.  I know someone who got an abortion back in the 70's.  This is because she was 18 at the time and in college.  She could have married this guy and had the kid, but she chose not to.  After this, she met another guy, married him and had 2 kids.  They had massive problems in the marriage, there was substance abuse, affairs, etc.  About 10 years ago the husband started going to Church and then she did about 5 years ago.  They are now Christian.  I can't help but wonder, if she had decided to keep that baby, would she even be Christian now?

As far as your second paragraph: I am not Christian, and I actually hate the system that we hold so dear, acquiring wealth, money, possessions, material things.  In fact, I know Christians who love their stuff and their money just as much as anyone else.  And I'm not afraid of dying.  There isn't anything special about me. In some ways, I think many, not all, but many who believe in the Christian Heaven/similar Heavens have a problem with dying.


That is the trill and wonder of pondering on the road not taken! What if'ing things that we have done and paths we have chosen I believe is completly natural. If I could do anything when I die I would and if it is allowed of course I would go back to every life choice I have made and "what if'ed" after I made the choice I would. Thats why I like choose your own adventure books. You can choose and then go back if you dont like the choice you made.

They have a problem with dying because of the guilt the hold in their hearts. They know the Bible from beginning to end at least most of them do. And anyone that does know the book so well would know their faults. Selfrightousness can only could the mind and heart so much. Also I am glad to hear that you have your own beliefs and ideals on life and death. By the way what do you think happens after the casket closes?

To judge one another is to damn one another and to damn ourselves. I am the diligent Paladin who looks not to cast sinfull judgement on his fellow people, but will take up my sword and sheild to protect and help them one and all.

#165    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 10:42 AM

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I understand where your coming from.  And sure all of us could sit around and say, "Well, if I were God, I would ...."  But we don't know exactly why God did/is doing things the way He did/does.  Maybe if we knew God's plan, we would actually end up doing things exactly the same way because then we would see that was the best way to do it.

Well thank you IAMS..at least you can see how I cant see God as a killer..I just cant...I am not one of those people, that read the bible, then get angry and say to a chrsitian - I hate God cuz look he is this and he is that..I don’t believe in God blah blah...............NOOOOOOO I cant turn my back on God over what man has written...that’s not right.......I wasnt around those days to witness anything, therefore ..I can only say, because I love him..I am going to defend him..and claim him innocent of any killings...sorry, but that’s how I see it...but IAMS I can understand how you see the stories as true...I was once like you, I used to believe in them..and tell myself God did what he had to do....but when i think harder and for some mad reason..I pray for the answers..then all of a sudden..something tells me - Geri, the book may not be 100%..man could well be fooled by what they believe is Satan

Satan if you believe in him...can appear in any form.........ask yourself.........what if one of the sneakiest meanest tricks of all time, was to fool the religious people, into believing their God was a killer? which has led so so many to turn away from Christianity...that was his plan and has worked on many.......THINK about it..its in the OT right?? and what did your God do after those events??? He sent who down to recover what was done??? Jesus?? yeaaa.........could it be he sent Jesus down...to insure the people that God REALLY IS ALLLOVING?? and not a killer?? do you think, that could have been his plan?? How do we know that God was not angered at the stories in the OT, such as Moses..being written by the hand of Satan to fool the religious?? see I cant prove this no, but gee its worth the thought...after all why do you think God made sure someone had to set the record straight..and hence a NEW TESTAMENT was written..born on to those that will see God as Good and remember the OT was written long before Jesus came and had his chrsit followers...maybe Jesus was sent for a good reason (besides to die for sins)...hmmm me and my theories lol grin2.gif

Just a thought IAMS....not saying its true..cuz see i don’t believe the devil exists lol...but or those that do..its just a hunch...satan taken you all for a ride...in the OT.remember how Satan tried to take Jesus for a fool?? when Jesus wanted to fast for 40 days?? If you believe Satan done this..then you can see WHY he may have tried to fool you all with the OT..........God had to do something..down comes Jesus and taadaaa all is sorted..a NEW beginning..so long Satan lol
Sorry I did get carried away there IAMS LMAO...

Posted ImageRAW Berris... Dare you enter?

If there's a heaven...I hope to hell I get there !




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