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Proof that dinosaurs lived alongside humans ?


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#16    Jim88

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 05:34 PM

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As someone who has a PERSONAL belief system in a Prime Creator, let me distance myself from the forgoing statements of Darc Mind..er..Arc. Not everyone who holds that the universe is not totally accidental is this narrow minded . As was pointed out, science cannot know what proceeded the 'Big Bang', and so cannot say yes or no on the idea of a Primary Force in the universe. This is an idea each human must grapple with alone.

Whenever someone like the above comes along, I cringe. It is not logical to hold such 12th century notions, yet so many people do. It is much like the ones found in the UFO field who spout garbage as fact, with no proof or even logic on their side. When someone like this posts a long convoluted diatribe to prove the existence of a particular aspect of some deity, it makes those of us who hold a more logical opinion want to hide.

I express this only in case I should one day make reference to something viewers might think bordered on a belief in a higher power. And so that those here will not be automatically turning a deaf ear to people in their daily life who might mention a belief of their own.

Some people try, as above, to define creation into the time frame that their minds can handle. They do not succeed in limiting the greatness of the universe, they only show the size of their own minds in the effort.


That's all fine, but there are three threads going under spirituality and skeptacism to debate creation verses evolution. I don't know how this became a debate about evolution verses creation. I just pointed out that he got some scientific principles wrong. I believe in creation myself, but I don't like it when creationists misstate scientific priniciples.

What do you think of the websites he linked to? Do you think it is possible that humans and dinosaurs could have coexisted?


1. Not to value and employ men of superior ability is the way to keep the people from rivalry among themselves; not to prize articles which are difficult to procure is the way to keep them from becoming thieves; not to show them what is likely to excite their desires is the way to keep their minds from disorder.

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#17    Bosanchero

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 05:44 PM

seems like loads of people fail to consider that ... humans might have found "BONES" and "REMAINS" of dynos which would of course look UNNATURAL to them.... so they did their best to portray them using their 2nd grade drawing skills...


P.S both sites are bunch of B.S. lol

Heaven won't have me and Hell's afraid I'll take over

View Postwhen.i.am.queen., on Jan 10 2007, 06:57 AM, said:

Here is a crazy thought

... perhaps.....not?

#18    fullywired

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 07:07 PM

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Neither evolution, nor Creation is proven, because we cannot now see either theory in operation today. Both ideas are theories that must be accepted by faith.



False they are not two theories .Evolution is a theory whilst creationism is a religious belief .,One is science based the other is a matter of faith and are not to be compared .Even if evolution is wrong it doesn't follow that creationism is right or vice versa


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#19    Jim88

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 07:18 PM

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False they are not two theories .Evolution is a theory whilst creationism is a religious belief .,One is science based the other is a matter of faith and are not to be compared .Even if evolution is wrong it doesn't follow that creationism is right or vice versa
                                              fullywired


I don't see how evolution is any more based on fact than creation. You may consider it to be better. That's your opinion. If you want to debate evolution verses creation go to spirituality verses skepticism. There are three threads there to debate it. Explain to them why you think evolution is better.

You didn't even comment on the two websites he linked to. What do you think of those?

1. Not to value and employ men of superior ability is the way to keep the people from rivalry among themselves; not to prize articles which are difficult to procure is the way to keep them from becoming thieves; not to show them what is likely to excite their desires is the way to keep their minds from disorder.

Tao Te Ching

#20    fullywired

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 07:29 PM

I am not debating evolution or creationism ,I am stating a fact that is all ,.surely you are not denying that creationism is a religious belief when it is straight out of the bible? or did you not notice I didn't defend either stance

Edited by fullywired, 17 April 2007 - 07:36 PM.

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"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
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#21    Jim88

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 07:42 PM

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I am not debating evolution or creationism ,I am stating a fact that is all ,.surely you are not denying that creationism is a religious belief when it is straight out of the bible? or did you not notice I didn't defend either stance


Why don't you just go up to spirituality and skepticism and tell people what you think. You think evolution is better than creation. Tell them up there why you think it is better.

I never said I was a Christian. I don't believe the version of creation in the Bible.

1. Not to value and employ men of superior ability is the way to keep the people from rivalry among themselves; not to prize articles which are difficult to procure is the way to keep them from becoming thieves; not to show them what is likely to excite their desires is the way to keep their minds from disorder.

Tao Te Ching

#22    fullywired

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 08:50 PM

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Why don't you just go up to spirituality and skepticism and tell people what you think. You think evolution is better than creation. Tell them up there why you think it is better.

I never said I was a Christian. I don't believe the version of creation in the Bible.



I hate people putting words in my mouth .nowhere did I say ,I think evolution is better than creationism .I stated and I repeat one is a theory and the other is a religious belief .plus I never said you were a Christian.You appear to read what you want to read instead of the text

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#23    Jim88

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 09:16 PM

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I hate people putting words in my mouth .nowhere did I say ,I think evolution is better than creationism .I stated and I repeat one is a theory and the other is a religious belief .plus I never said you were a Christian.You appear to read what you want to read instead of the text


You said creation is a belief out of the Bible. You assumed I was a Christian.

1. Not to value and employ men of superior ability is the way to keep the people from rivalry among themselves; not to prize articles which are difficult to procure is the way to keep them from becoming thieves; not to show them what is likely to excite their desires is the way to keep their minds from disorder.

Tao Te Ching

#24    fullywired

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 09:21 PM

The only assumptions here are those you are making ,I didn't assume you to be anything other than a poster in a thread


Isn't creationism out of the Bible ???? I always thought is was

Edited by fullywired, 17 April 2007 - 09:22 PM.

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"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
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#25    Jim88

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 09:46 PM

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The only assumptions here are those you are making ,I didn't assume you to be anything other than a poster in a thread
Isn't creationism out of the Bible ???? I always thought is was


A lot of people believe in creation but they don't believe what it says in the Bible. The Bible is not the only version of creation. If you really want to hear what I think about creation and evolution then I'll tell you. I believe both explanations could be true. We could have been created and life could be evolving. If evolution were ever proven then it would disprove creation because they could both be true.

I really don't want to get into a debate over whether creation is considered to be a theory. Believers believe it is a theory. Evolutionists don't. I'm sick of debating evolution verses creation. Nobody can prove anything, so what's the point in arguing about it. I personally don't believe God wants everybody to believe in him. If he did then he would reveal himself to everybody. Some people believe in him and some people don't. I accept that.

1. Not to value and employ men of superior ability is the way to keep the people from rivalry among themselves; not to prize articles which are difficult to procure is the way to keep them from becoming thieves; not to show them what is likely to excite their desires is the way to keep their minds from disorder.

Tao Te Ching

#26    fullywired

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 09:57 PM

Your doing it again, making this into an argument about evolution and creationism.it is not ,it is about terminology  a belief is a belief not a theory and thats all I said .from what I see on this forum evolution versus creationism has been done to death .there is nothing fresh that can be said about it

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"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
-------Buddha (563 - 483 BC)

#27    Jim88

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 10:04 PM

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from what I see on this forum evolution versus creationism has been done to death .there is nothing fresh that can be said about it


I agree with you there.

1. Not to value and employ men of superior ability is the way to keep the people from rivalry among themselves; not to prize articles which are difficult to procure is the way to keep them from becoming thieves; not to show them what is likely to excite their desires is the way to keep their minds from disorder.

Tao Te Ching

#28    robbieb

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:57 AM

i find it intresting that in all the pics ive seen of early people drawing a dino it shows its tail on the ground draging like we used to think they looked like yet new science shows that they would have had to hold there tails up as a counter balance thus proving to me that that small mistake is proof enough for me that they may have found fossils and said oh these are still alive and this is how they must look it would be like u looking at a hyena and drawing a picture of it walking on two legs its not how it walked at all but if u had very little knowledge and were just given bones to look at u might come up with that and raw one walking on two legs


#29    Ashley-Star*Child

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:32 AM

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And evolutionist propaganda
holds about as much, so please check your facts before flaming.

"Evolution is a proven fact." Wrong. Neither evolution, nor Creation is proven, because we cannot now see either theory in operation today. Both ideas are theories that must be accepted by faith. The person's conclusions for their faith must be based upon truth though - the evolutionist has no proof, only more theories. The Creationist has the words of the Bible which can be proven in a court to be true. It has been consistently proven there are no false statements in the Bible!

What Evolution is. Evolution is a theory of the origin of all things based upon a process of continuous “innovative” change. It states the universe is continually improving itself through this "process." It may take billions of years, but it is supposedly gradually improving! This usually means without allowing for an outside Creator’s help. It represents the acceptance of anything that can explain the existence of this universe, as long as it does not allow for the existence of God.
   1.  Some Scientific Laws Against ANY Form of Evolution.



1.        The Laws of Thermodynamics (Heat Energy).



a.        The first law says energy and matter can be transformed (changed) and altered, but cannot now be created or destroyed. This Law does away with Theory B. A universe that accidentally "big banged" out of nothing is unscientific since matter can't naturally be created (see Nehemiah 9:6). Evolution requires you to believe everything “accidentally” came from nothing!

b.       The second law states that energy in a closed system[1] will   run out. This is called ENTROPY. All forms of energy run down like a watch. For example: things do not grow toward order and cleanliness by accident (ask any housewife with kids). Nothing is in the process of "evolving" (getting better, and more advanced, and more powerful), but rather EVERYTHING which can be seen demonstrates dissipation, disintegration, decay and degeneration. Nothing is "improved" unless it is worked on by an outside force! This Law is stated in Isaiah 51:6, and does away with Theory A since if the universe had always been here, it would have "burned-out" long ago! Even though matter and energy cannot disappear, energy is always slowing down - never increasing (and never being replaced)! An example is the burning of a fire log. The log burns, and produces heat energy. That energy is then gone from the log, and cannot be produced from the same log anymore.



2.        The Law of Cause and Effect. To every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction. For every effect that we see in the universe, there had to be an original cause. Evolution requires that all of ORDER came from CHAOS being “helped along” - again “accidentally.”

3.        The Law of Biogenetics demonstrates that life ONLY comes from life! Every living organism comes only from living organisms (John 1:1-4)! Never has life "spontaneously" come from a dead thing.

4.        Mendel’s Laws. Gregor Mendel (1822-1914) proved scientifically:



a.        Only genetic characteristics are inherited (things that are already coded in the DNA molecules of a gene) - only things that the parent already had “in” themselves, are passed on to the next generation. Nothing new can be passed on except for mutations which are 99.9% disastrous to the next generation.

b.       Variations are built-into the DNA code of an organism - this allows for variations in a specific kind of animal - i.e., a dog’s genes have many variations already built-in (doberman, terrier, greyhound), just as a cat’s genes have many variations, etc.

c.        Variations outside of the limits of the genetic code do not occur. The variations do not include the ability for offspring to turn into anything BUT what the parent was - i.e., a cat ALWAYS produces a cat! Never a cat-dog, or a butterfly, or a frog, etc.

d.       No “new” characteristics appear in ANY species (it would be like trying to play keys on a piano that aren't there) except by mutation - which ALWAYS means a degradation of the offspring’s quality of life - which is opposite of the evolutionary theory.

e.        All mutations are proven to be destructive to the off-spring, because they are “degenerative” and not evolutionary - the next generation ALWAYS becomes sterile.
# Order Out of Chaos? Could you believe that a delicate and beautiful Swiss watch could come from an explosion in a steel mill, or that a dictionary could come from an explosion in a print shop? Then how could a rational person believe that all the beauties and perfection of nature result from an explosion of hot gasses back at the "big bang?" Only if you are told again and again that it MUST have happened!

   4. Find the Fossil Evidence. The theory of evolution contends that life appeared "spontaneously" on the earth, and that over millions of years, life forms changed and became more complex. Man is assumed to be the product of this process. Fossils, the remains of dead plants and animals, have supposedly left a record of the organisms that once populated the earth.

      Modern research has shown that in recorded history, species are constantly moving toward extinction. Every day, more than 50 species become extinct. If evolution were true, one would expect to see the process providing examples of emerging species in their "transitional forms." The question arises, "where are the emerging species and their transitional forms?"[2] The fossil record shows no transitional forms - only fully developed creatures, in all strata!
Evolutionary Hoaxes, Scams, and Abuses



   1. Dating Methods - Billions? Millions? Or Just Thousands of Years Old?



1.        Date the fossils by the “strata” they are found in. Most scientists believe that layers of the earth’s crust (called strata) represent different time periods, and were laid down over millions and even billions of years. In the 1800’s, each layer was labeled by its depth and rock type. Then, the fossils found within each layer were classified by that layer (i.e., Cambrian, Jurassic, Carboniferous, etc).

2.        Date the strata by what fossils are found in it. As time went on, strata were not found to be uniform in layering, and so the fossil type that was found in each strata was used to label the strata. The problem is this: based upon a preliminary assumption in the 1800's that all the strata in the world were laid down uniformly, all fossils and strata are classified based upon each other’s preliminary labeling - i.e., the strata is identified by the fossils it contains, and the fossils are classified by the strata they are found in - circular reasoning! Not science!

3.        The “Flood” ruined everything! A creationist approaches the problem from the vantage of the world-wide flood of Genesis 7 & 8, which sorted the fossils and strata in a cataclysmic, not uniform fashion.



   2. The So-Called “Missing Links” of Human Ancestry



1.        Java Man (Pithecanthropus) - In 1890, a skull cap, femur, and two molar teeth were grouped together as belonging to the same person. The skull is that of an ape, but the teeth and the femur bone of an human. What was not published was that they were found 45 feet apart from each other, along with many other bones of clearly apes, humans, and other animals. It was a grocery store of “parts” to construct any animal you wanted! Java man has since been reclassified as human.

2.        Neanderthal Man (Homo sapiens neanderthalensis) - 1856, in Neanderthal, Germany, a skull cap and limb bones were found. It was grouped with a set of skeletons found all over Europe that had the following characteristics: prominent eyebrow ridges, low forehead, long narrow brain case, protruding upper jaw, a strong lower jaw lacking a chin. The overall skeletons were short, and stooped-over. Anthropologists believed it to be a “missing link” between man and ape because it seemed to have shuffled along when walking. However, 150 years later, it is now admitted that these skeletons were of people that suffered from rickets, and syphilis. Neanderthal Man was just a variation of the modern human kind with disease!

3.        The Piltdown Man (Eoanthropus). In England, in 1912, a human skull cap and an orangutan’s jaw were grouped together, along with a tooth as a hoax to prove another so-called “missing link.” It was believed by the scientific world for over 40 years until tested for age, only to find that the tooth had been filed down to look human, and the jaw bone stained to look as old as the skull cap.

4.        The Peking Man - all the “evidence” of this ape-man was lost in World War II, and is not available for examination.

5.        The Nebraska Man (Hesperopithecus) - an entire skeleton of an ape-man was constructed based upon a single tooth of a supposed “missing link.” The tooth was discovered to be of a rare pig found in Paraguay.

6.        Lucy (Ramapithecus) - once widely accepted as the direct ancestor of humans, it has now been realised that this skeleton is merely an extinct type of orangutan - not an early human.



And they call all this "SCIENCE?"



That is one of the best posts I've seen on here for a long time. thumbsup.gif


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#30    draconic chronicler

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:44 AM

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That is one of the best posts I've seen on here for a long time. thumbsup.gif


Actually, there are a number of scientists that find the bible compatible with evouloution if the days are translated as "epochs", and not 24 hour days.

How would the ancients know life would begin in the sea?  And then there is the age of great reptiles and birds (Mesozoic).  The word tannin here is sometimes translated as whales, but more correctly it means a dragon, which was the common word for any large reptile before the word dinosaur was invented.  Then came the age of mammals with man coming about  in the last period.

So intelligent people who understand the earth is billions of years old can also believe in God.  One of the best known paleontologists is a Christian deacon, but still believes dinos and men didn't live together becasue the fossil record proves this is impossible and the Bible doesn't say this.  It does say heavenly creatures called dragons living in the time of men, but not dinosaurs, all of which died out 65 million years ago.





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