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Ersatz Lunar Landings


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#1    Valis

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 06:53 AM

From the Discovery Channel website:

"Aug. 15, 2006 NASA officials are searching for the original videotapes from the first moon landing in 1969 in the hopes that they can use modern technology to produce sharper images of the event.

The video, including footage of Apollo 11 astronauts Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin walking on the moon, was transmitted from the moon to tracking stations in California and Australia. The images that were then sent to Houston, and seen by the rest of the world were substantially degraded.

Space program veterans believe the original tracking station recordings are stored somewhere at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. Telephone calls Monday night to NASA and Goddard spokesmen were not immediately returned."

This was posted in 2006, and the tapes are still missing. Scientists are some of the most gullible people around. If Uri Geller can dupe scientists, then it's not that difficult for a "credible" source such as NASA to do the same. Why don't they just give up on this scam? Maybe it's because they stole 30 billion in taxpayer dollars back then. If NASA officially admits the hoax, then NASA funding will probably be reduced. I'm sure that plenty of NASA insiders know that this is a scam.
In a TV interview NASA chief Dan Golden, (alias Dan Dare), openly admitted that mankind cannot venture beyond Earth orbit, until they can overcome the dangers of cosmic radiation. He managed to say this without any mention, or reference to the Apollo missions 37 years ago.
   Moon rocks don't prove that a manned lunar mission was accomplished. NASA unmanned probe(s) could have collected 187 lbs of moon rocks, or the rocks could simply be  meteorites.

Here's more info on the lost video tapes:
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Apollo_Moon_la...eported_missing

Edited by Valis, 21 April 2007 - 07:31 AM.


#2    frenat

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 11:50 AM

The comment about leaving Earth orbit was referring to longer trips such as to Mars.  During a longer trip the radiation has a cumulative effect that is not a problem during the relatively short trips made during Apollo.

The rocks could not be meteorites.  Meteorites from the Moon or lunaites were only identified years after the Moon landings by comparing them to the rocks we do have and have only been found in small numbers.  Further they show evidence of having made an atmospheric reentry and weathering and erosion since they have arrived.  The moon rocks show none of these.  Sure maybe they could have collected them with unmanned probes but there is no evidence for a single unmanned probe to have collected these rocks let alone the hundreds that would have been necessary.  There were over 800 pounds of rocks collectee by the way, not 187.  Russia's best probes only managed to return a gew grams by comparison.  Further we would not then have the meter long core samples, rocks of various sizes, rocks selected for specific geological reasons and intact breccia or fragile clumps that are not broken apart.  Much of that is still difficult for unmanned probes today and was certainly impossible back then.

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#3    flyingswan

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 11:56 AM

The missing tapes do not mean that any TV coverage has actually been lost.  It's just that the original analogue copying process resulted in some loss of quality, and if the tapes are found and copied with modern methods then this should give somewhat better quality than the existing copies of the footage.

"Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true" - Francis Bacon (1561-1626)
In which case it is fortunate that:
"Science is the best defense against believing what we want to" - Ian Stewart (1945- )

#4    frenat

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 02:07 PM

They still have all the footage, these would just be slightly sharper copies.  They were not being kept directly by NASA.  Over the many years it is not unreasonable to think that somebody that had no idea what they were wondered why there were so many boxes hanging around taking up space and moved them/got rid of them.  Why is that really so hard for some to imagine?

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#5    MID

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 06:03 PM

Quote

This was posted in 2006, and the tapes are still missing. Scientists are some of the most gullible people around. If Uri Geller can dupe scientists, then it's not that difficult for a "credible" source such as NASA to do the same. Why don't they just give up on this scam? Maybe it's because they stole 30 billion in taxpayer dollars back then. If NASA officially admits the hoax, then NASA funding will probably be reduced. I'm sure that plenty of NASA insiders know that this is a scam.
In a TV interview NASA chief Dan Golden, (alias Dan Dare), openly admitted that mankind cannot venture beyond Earth orbit, until they can overcome the dangers of cosmic radiation. He managed to say this without any mention, or reference to the Apollo missions 37 years ago.
   Moon rocks don't prove that a manned lunar mission was accomplished. NASA unmanned probe(s) could have collected 187 lbs of moon rocks, or the rocks could simply be  meteorites.



You seem to be basing your contention on this "scam" on missing video tape originals.
Others have explained to you that this is really rather meaningless.

NASA stole 30 billion of taxpayer dollars?
What did they do with it?

Did you know that NASAs funding for Apollo was cut...in 1968, 1969, and all the way through the end of the program?

The Dan Golden remark has also been explained to you above.



I'm interested in the last statement:

Moon rocks don't prove that a manned lunar landing occurred?
Unmanned craft "could have returned the 187 pounds of Moon rocks"?

I think you've been told that it is actually over 800 pounds.  
We had no unmanned spacecraft designed to return lunar samples, and no unmanned spacecraft could collect that much, from so many different areas of the Moon, and return them to Earth.

The Soviets collected 13 ounces of lunar material on their three sucessful un-manned landing and sample return missions.
What makes you think the U.S. had un-manned spacecraft that could return over 800 pounds?

We collected 800 pounds of Moon stuff on six different landings.  These samples were meticulously collected over a couple dozen hours of labor by 12 men, over a wide range of lunar terrain.

Did you know that we exchanged lunar material with the Soviets, and that we verified their material, and they, ours?  

There's no way that 800 pounds of Moon could've been returned to Earth without men collecting it.
Of course, that is not the only substantiation of Apollo that is confirmed by scientists the world over.

We have the data.
We have the spacecraft that did it.
We have an incredible collection of documentation...moreso than exists in support of any other endeavor in mandkind's history.
We have hours and hours of video tape from the lunar surface, and we have approximately 6000 photographs of the lunar surface, taken from the lunar surface, which of course match with the video tape.


And of course, we have the men who flew those missions, save a couple who are now departed...

Was there actually a question you had about Apollo?
Questions get you explanations and answers.

That's a lot better than putting forth a paragraph of nonsense based upon a decided lack of knowledge.




#6    Enigma wrapped in a puzzle

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Posted 21 April 2007 - 10:09 PM

Quote

You seem to be basing your contention on this "scam" on missing video tape originals.
Others have explained to you that this is really rather meaningless.

NASA stole 30 billion of taxpayer dollars?
What did they do with it?

Did you know that NASAs funding for Apollo was cut...in 1968, 1969, and all the way through the end of the program?


Boy you are fast to jump into any thread that has "moon" in it  sleepy.gif

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 22 April 2007 - 12:26 AM.
reduced size of quote. There is never any need to quote the whole of a large post just to give a one sentance reply.

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#7    AtomicDog

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 01:38 AM

Quote

Boy you are fast to jump into any thread that has "moon" in it  sleepy.gif



So am I. Your point being?


#8    flyingswan

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 10:36 AM

So am I, it's a subject that interests me and it's a subject where I have the knowledge and expertise to contribute meaningfully.

What's your reason?

Edited by flyingswan, 22 April 2007 - 10:37 AM.

"Man prefers to believe what he prefers to be true" - Francis Bacon (1561-1626)
In which case it is fortunate that:
"Science is the best defense against believing what we want to" - Ian Stewart (1945- )

#9    MID

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 06:39 PM

Quote

Boy you are fast to jump into any thread that has "moon" in it  sleepy.gif




The Moon is the reason I joined this board in the first place.   Thus, any reference to Moon landings, Apollo, etc., rather piques my interest.
And as you can see, AtomicDog and flyingswan also have expertise and interest, and they'll appear rather quickly as well when someone wants to discuss the matter...


...it is always nice to have qualified, articulate help  (...actually, I just jump in.  Those guys can handle it without me!)

You're pretty fast yourself as pertains to the Moon...

Your 2nd post on this board was in a Moon hoax thread, and the next day you started in on another one, where I believe you asked me for my birth certificate, for some reason...(?)

Indeed, on your second day here you said this about me:

Quote

Either way I call B.S. and frankly I am very tired of reading your posts about the missions. You seem to act like you know everything there is to know about space and no one on this planet really knows very much about it.


hmm.gif
I wonder how many of my posts you read about the missions (there are hundreds).  I would also wonder why you simply don't "switch the channel" and turn me off.


Perhaps you have some questions about Apollo, or space flight matters, rather than just idle commentary?




#10    Enigma wrapped in a puzzle

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 09:27 PM

Quote

The Moon is the reason I joined this board in the first place.   Thus, any reference to Moon landings, Apollo, etc., rather piques my interest.
And as you can see, AtomicDog and flyingswan also have expertise and interest, and they'll appear rather quickly as well when someone wants to discuss the matter...
...it is always nice to have qualified, articulate help  (...actually, I just jump in.  Those guys can handle it without me!)

You're pretty fast yourself as pertains to the Moon...

Your 2nd post on this board was in a Moon hoax thread, and the next day you started in on another one, where I believe you asked me for my birth certificate, for some reason...(?)

Indeed, on your second day here you said this about me:
hmm.gif
I wonder how many of my posts you read about the missions (there are hundreds).  I would also wonder why you simply don't "switch the channel" and turn me off.
Perhaps you have some questions about Apollo, or space flight matters, rather than just idle commentary?


Kinda hard to turn you off when you are in every other post on these moon threads.  And usually at the center of the argument....


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#11    AtomicDog

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 09:33 PM

Quote

Boy you are fast to jump into any thread that has "moon" in it  sleepy.gif


You have yet to expand on the rationale behind your comment.

I love Space Exploration, I love the Moon, I love the Apollo Program and I hate the Moon Hoax.

Why are you here?



#12    Enigma wrapped in a puzzle

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 09:42 PM

Quote

You have yet to expand on the rationale behind your comment.

I love Space Exploration, I love the Moon, I love the Apollo Program and I hate the Moon Hoax.

Why are you here?



My reason is because I have seen alot of info about the hoaxes and I do not know what to believe.   For me it is a hard thing to swallow that we did all the missions flawless, and we have yet to go back and no other country has been there either.     Why has no other country gone?  We know they have the technology now, but were we really almost 40 years more advanced in space exploration.   The answer is no!

Edited by Damon2000, 22 April 2007 - 09:43 PM.

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#13    MID

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 09:45 PM

Quote

Kinda hard to turn you off when you are in every other post on these moon threads.  And usually at the center of the argument....




Turning me off would involve not coming here...it's kinda easy to simply avoid these Moon hoax threads, especially since you know I will be here eventually.  


Perhaps,  unless you have something to ask, you should do that.

cool.gif

But of course, questions have been asked of you by AtomicDog and flyingswan, and I haven't seen you respond to them.


Now why is that Mr. Damon?  Why do you spend so much of your time adressing me (without saying anything much) at the expense of flyingswan and AtomicDog, who have asked you a question you seem reticent to answer...?

What's this emphasis on me , Damon????
Is there some reason for that?





#14    Enigma wrapped in a puzzle

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 09:47 PM

Quote

Turning me off would involve not coming here...it's kinda easy to simply avoid these Moon hoax threads, especially since you know I will be here eventually.  
Perhaps,  unless you have something to ask, you should do that.

cool.gif

But of course, questions have been asked of you by AtomicDog and flyingswan, and I haven't seen you respond to them.
Now why is that Mr. Damon?  Why do you spend so much of your time adressing me (without saying anything much) at the expense of flyingswan and AtomicDog, who have asked you a question you seem reticent to answer...?

What's this emphasis on me , Damon????
Is there some reason for that?


I have adressed, thank you for your concern.

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#15    MID

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Posted 22 April 2007 - 10:00 PM

Quote

My reason is because I have seen alot of info about the hoaxes and I do not know what to believe.   For me it is a hard thing to swallow that we did all the missions flawless, and we have yet to go back and no other country has been there either.     Why has no other country gone?  We know they have the technology now, but were we really almost 40 years more advanced in space exploration.   The answer is no!




Excellent, now we're getting somewhere.

You don't know what to believe!


Understanding Apollo, and manned spaceflight in general is not about belief.  It is about knowledge.   If you know something, there is no need to remain in the realm of faith and conjecture, which is what belief is.

This is honest, and a good starting point.


I'd like to persuade you to ask specific questions about your doubts.

But you made some points in the above statement that bear some clarifications for your benefit:

  • It is a hard thing for you to swallow that we did all the mission flawless.

You should understand that we did not do any Apollo mission flawlessly.
You may recall that the program almost stopped in its tracks due to AS-204 (Apollo 1), and that Apollo 13 tested the system we had developed to its limits.

Each and every Apollo mission had problems and anomalies.  They numbered in the many dozens.
  • Why has no other country gone...and were we actually 40 years ahead of them?



No other country went because they did not have the technology, the infrastruture, the money, or the national will to do so.   The U.S. and Soviet Union were the only two countries at the time with the potential.   Most countries still are not posessed of the requisite technological base to do so.

Thus, in a way, yes, we were 40 years in advance of them, and are many more years in advance of many of them as we speak.  Do you understand the resources that America actually has?   Do you realize that we were the world leader in technological and scientific accomplishment during the era of Apollo (That may be hard to believe, give the past few decades of relative decline in that status, but it was true between 1960 and 1975)?


However, Japan, China, Great Britain, Canada, and other countries are getting right up there, or are right up there with Russsia and the U.S., and I think you will be seeing some independent ventures into space in the future.


Think about your position for a while.
Frame some specific questions, and ask them here, without the tone, please ( rofl.gif ).  We will be happy to provide answers and guide you to resources that can help you learn about these things.





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