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MANKINDS BIGGEST MISTAKE!


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#76    IzzyGone

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 02:43 PM

I'm not telling you or anyone that dear.  When does it not?  Our science says we 'dont know' yet for sure.  Depends on who you read and how you 'take it'.  This is an 'open forum' disucssing possible 'Aliens'...  if we can ponder that, then why not that space and time might not be 'flat'?

Edited by 1Storm Signals, 07 September 2007 - 02:46 PM.


#77    Sun Raven

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 02:50 PM

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I'm not telling you or anyone that dear.  When does it not?  Our science says we 'dont know' yet for sure.  Depends on who you read and how you 'take it'.  This is an 'open forum' disucssing possible 'Aliens'...  if we can ponder that, then why not that space and time might not be 'flat'?


I will just quote Waspie's post:

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Erm, no. It's 3 dimensionally flat not two dimensional as you seem to be imagine it:

From your own quoted material:

Quote

QUOTE
It's impossible for humans to imagine things in 4-D, so it's best to think of the 3-D analogy.


Also from you quoted material:

Quote

QUOTE
That is, the universe appears flat because we're only observing a very small portion of it. It suggests that, at some point, the "balloon" that is our universe expanded so much that the geometry in the present day observable universe is, for all intents and purposes, flat.


Keep in mind that this is just an analogy and that you have to add a dimension (specifically, a time-like one) in order for it to apply to cosmology


in other words it may appear to be flat but on the large scale it may not be.



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#78    IzzyGone

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 03:55 PM

If we are only observing a small portion of it, then we can't know if it's flat, round, see thru, a spiral, a vortex, a cell membrane
or a nothing at all.  I think our minds do like they did in the day of Galileo...  assume flat first, or assume recognized 'shape' so that we can try to understand.

We can't hear the animals yet.
We still fight with our neighbors (ourselves).
There is no science imo that goes beyond common sense.
I think our most complex sciences are/can be reduced to extreme simplicity.
So extreme as to be unthinkably complex.

My 2 cents - with no proof to boot.  original.gif   rofl.gif  alien.gif  w00t.gif




#79    Sun Raven

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 04:28 PM

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If we are only observing a small portion of it, then we can't know if it's flat, round, see thru, a spiral, a vortex, a cell membrane
or a nothing at all.  I think our minds do like they did in the day of Galileo...  assume flat first, or assume recognized 'shape' so that we can try to understand.

We can't hear the animals yet.
We still fight with our neighbors (ourselves).
There is no science imo that goes beyond common sense.
I think our most complex sciences are/can be reduced to extreme simplicity.
So extreme as to be unthinkably complex.

My 2 cents - with no proof to boot.  original.gif   rofl.gif  alien.gif  w00t.gif


When we talk on how the universe is structured, our main base is not geomatry but mathematics, if we talk about it's shape somehow, we must refer to it in dimensions.

EDIT: Typo.

Edited by Alex01, 07 September 2007 - 04:28 PM.

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#80    IzzyGone

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 04:40 PM

What is geometry, mathmatics and dimention if it isn't  'number' which then is 'pattern'...which then is 'something'...?
Including the 'somethings' we call 'nothing'...'not there or not observable' or not there when observed?

We sent something out into space that says 'hey we're HERE and we look like this and sound like this' when, imo, we don't really have a full understanding of Us yet.  Much less our Universe, our own evolution or future evolution of human...

So sending the Golden Record 'out' ... might indeed mean that at some point of space, time, dimension... perhaps it simply returns to us and starts our 'clock' of evolution over again if we mis-understand ourselves to begin with and don't know who we'll be in our 'futures'.

Edited:  I corrected your typo  cool.gif
Again, just my 2cents

Edited by 1Storm Signals, 07 September 2007 - 04:44 PM.


#81    camlax

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 10:42 PM

I do love science fiction postulation, which is what this is.

Firstly let me say, you all are being narrow in your beliefs. Aliens, maybe mean, kind, uncaring, etc. There is no possible way to know or guess the limitations to a completely alien being. They may have radioactive metabolisms and we all get rad sickness being around them. They may not die so have no concept of death (wouldn't want to meet that guy).

There are infinite possibilities to how aliens will react to us, saying "They will be nice or they will be mean" is simply wishful thinking, and no matter how nice it sounds does not make it true.

I would have to say, I would be weary if a huge alien spacecraft suddenly pulled up in earth's orbit. Firstly, as someone said earlier (startravler I think) having advanced sciences does not make you nice nor kind. In fact, often times our sciences and technology have blindly troded on other organism. Not purposefully either, I think that is a scary scenario, Us being like ants to them and them simply not even noticing our life. I mean, how often do we kindly remove ants in our way?

Also, understanding carrying capacity, I don't find it a too far out idea that any aliens that may show up at our door are looking for a new home. Also, no one brought up the idea of stupid aliens. I mean there could be more than one race of intelligent being, what if some are using stolen technology? Or what if some still have religious beliefs?

I think that would be rather scary, them showing up here looking at humans in general as all "simple pagans" wanting to convert us to their gods. (Shudder).

Anyway fun stuff to kick around over some beers at the pub, but I would not spend all your time worrying about it or voyager.

Edit:Edited for clarity, apparently I was tired when I wrote that missing lots of words  happy.gif

Edited by camlax, 08 September 2007 - 01:33 PM.

"Sorry, but my inner voice tells me to tell your inner voice the following:
It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.
Could you please relay that message to your inner voice?"
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"Imagination without knowledge is Ignorance waiting to happen."

#82    ex infernis

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 06:11 AM

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what if some are using stolen technology? Or what if some still have religious beliefs?

sounds like somebody has been playing too much halo.

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

#83    camlax

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 01:27 PM

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sounds like somebody has been playing too much halo.



Actually I have never played halo, but what most people fail to understand is a truly alien intelligence is not limited to human imagination. It is a mistake of ours to associate non human things with human ideas. People have been doing it with animals for years.

In the end, until we meet other intelligences, its all speculation and science fiction. Does not make it any less fun though.

Edited by camlax, 08 September 2007 - 01:29 PM.

"Sorry, but my inner voice tells me to tell your inner voice the following:
It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.
Could you please relay that message to your inner voice?"
~Harte

"Imagination without knowledge is Ignorance waiting to happen."

#84    shantiel

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 09:59 PM

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Hey,
       All of you remember the Voyager Golden Record, yes?, well if not, let me inform you all with the details.

The Voyager Golden Record is a phonograph record included in the two Voyager spacecraft launched in 1977. It contains sounds and images selected to portray the diversity of life and culture on Earth. It is intended for any intelligent extraterrestrial life form, or far future humans, that may find it. The Voyager spacecraft will take about 40,000 years to come near another star, 'near' meaning in this case within around 1.7 light-years' distance; hence, if other beings do not come in the direction of the spacecraft to meet them, it will take at least that long for the Golden Record to be found.

As the probes are extremely small compared to the vastness of interstellar space, it is extraordinarily unlikely that they will ever be intercepted. If they are ever found by an alien species, it will be far in the future, and thus the record is best seen as a symbolic statement rather than a serious attempt to communicate with aliens.

Other things that are on these probes are symbols of man and where our planet Earth is located!

The records hold sounds of life on Earth, like animals, human conversations, music, videos, images, our science and technology knowlegde and our thoughts and feelings.

The record also holds 55 languages!

There is a 90minute electric selection of music from many cultures and countries.

The Voyagers Golden Record's mission is to come in contact with extraterrestrials or inteliegence greater than our own.
Nasa has done a MASSIVE mistake of sending this probe to outer space and beyond, All of us just better hope that the probe never completes its mission. If inteliegence greater than our own find this, they will see that we have not even tapped into the advances of technology and will take advantage of us with the help of a map provided by us on the side of the probe.

Plz share your thoughts and comments. Thx



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#85    shantiel

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 10:01 PM

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What makes you think that a rogue alien race would be that far away? People that believe in aliens in this era would be too peaceful and kind to them when they need to be extremely careful.  angry.gif

why would that be a big difference? the people here now don't get along, they should fit right in tongue.gif


#86    shantiel

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 10:04 PM

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Hey, if you really want to stay up at night try this:We sent out a highly concentrated radio broadcast to the Hercules Cluster. It had pictures of us, our planet's location, and even some genetic data.P.S.: don't worry about this one either. This message will also take a long time to get there, if anyone ever receives it at all. Our constant radio-emission (in ALL directions) is much more likely to say "Hi There!" to anyone listing. What's really worrying is having "Family Guy" being our introduction to extra-terrestrials.  disgust.gif
what is it disgust.gif

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If we are only observing a small portion of it, then we can't know if it's flat, round, see thru, a spiral, a vortex, a cell membraneor a nothing at all.  I think our minds do like they did in the day of Galileo...  assume flat first, or assume recognized 'shape' so that we can try to understand.We can't hear the animals yet.We still fight with our neighbors (ourselves).There is no science imo that goes beyond common sense.I think our most complex sciences are/can be reduced to extreme simplicity.So extreme as to be unthinkably complex.My 2 cents - with no proof to boot.  original.gif   rofl.gif  alien.gif  w00t.gif
sounds about that laugh.gif


#87    Sun Raven

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Posted 08 September 2007 - 10:19 PM

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What is geometry, mathmatics and dimention if it isn't  'number' which then is 'pattern'...which then is 'something'...?
Including the 'somethings' we call 'nothing'...'not there or not observable' or not there when observed?

We sent something out into space that says 'hey we're HERE and we look like this and sound like this' when, imo, we don't really have a full understanding of Us yet.  Much less our Universe, our own evolution or future evolution of human...

So sending the Golden Record 'out' ... might indeed mean that at some point of space, time, dimension... perhaps it simply returns to us and starts our 'clock' of evolution over again if we mis-understand ourselves to begin with and don't know who we'll be in our 'futures'.

Edited:  I corrected your typo  cool.gif
Again, just my 2cents


I undestand what you are trying to say but you cannot be sure if the universe has a size, and if it does you cannot be sure what size it has either. According to the theory of the Big Bang the universe is like waspie said , 3D and 4D dimensionally flat, this means it is in someway flat but not like your desk or dining table. This is very hard to explain. Has anybody explained to you or do you know the inflating  balloon explanation? geek.gif

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#88    The Puzzler

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 12:21 PM

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An interesting post, Adama...thanks for that. thumbsup.gif

  I surpose when the Voyager Golden Record was sent on it's way....the creators and senders were thinking

that any superior intelligences that MIGHT find it (a long shot, but who knows).....would be friendly beings!

What if they saw humans and animals and thought "yum yum!"  w00t.gif

High intelligence does not automatically mean 'goodness'....as illustrated by us, the human race.

I couldn't help thinking of 'Planet of the Apes'...when they found the statue of Liberty!

  Imagine if somehow Voyager Golden Record came winging back to earth somehow in a few thousand

  years....boomerang-like.

Heaven only knows what earth might be like then!  All this radioactive material we have everywhere.

Mutated  humans living in a mutated world....find it....manage to 'play' it....and wonder where this beautiful

place might be....then........shock......statue of Liberty moment!!!!

lolololol good one Bee, thats really good thinking..........gotta luv that Statue of Liberty moment!

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#89    The Puzzler

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 01:08 PM

Why send it out in the first place? The aliens already know we are here and did in the late 70's too.

"The agony and the irony, they're killing me"
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#90    Sun Raven

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 06:06 PM

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Why send it out in the first place? The aliens already know we are here and did in the late 70's too.


There is no proof for this. wink2.gif

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