327 replies to this topic

[Budding Colombo]

paintedfinch, on 22 June 2010 - 12:56 PM, said:

unless you read my last post 18 times (and that wouldn't surprise me) Budding Colombo, others seem interested in the Gatton disgrace after all this time. and i'm supremely confident none are descendants of "Thomas Day". strangely my elder sister had a Thomas Day (of Brisbane & s.e.q.) as her father-in-law. he's passed away. never met him. but the "Thomas Day" of Gatton infamy simply did not exist according to all family recollections. please don't creep onto the net at 4.30a.m. to lodge your next post on the murders (as you did this morning). let's just discuss the case here openly - the Murphy kids & family are the centre of attention...not you. ian.

It appears your mind is closed on this subject. Personal abuse is not warranted.
Why not forget for a moment who was involved and just look at the crime itself.
I creep on the net early as my day usually begins at 3:30am.
If financial gain was my motive why have I compiled all the information that I have been able to find and present it free of charge to all and sundry.
Urquhart was no fool maybe there was a reason for the farcical inquiry.
I can’t see why you would say the Queensland Police are eternally disgraced.
However to fully understand some of the things that occurred at the time it is oimportant to understand the friction in the force at that time, until that is understood nothing seems to gel.
The e-book that really seems to be bugging you is not a book persee but a compilation of the known facts that are still available and has so far has taken many hours of work and is not yet finished.
If you like I will e-mail you a copy and let you be the judge.
Meanwhile here are just a few things to ponder.
Why?
Q. Why No Signs Of Struggling At The Scene?
Q. Why No Tracks At The Scene?
Q. Why Was The Bullet Casing Found In The Blood Under The Horse’s Head? The Horse Fell To Its Right And Was Shot Head On And Falling To Its Side The Head Would Land Several Feet From Its Killer And The Casing Would Be Ejected To The Right Hand Side Placing It Even Further Away From The Horses Head?
Q. Why After Traveling All The Way To Gatton For The Dance, They Didn’t Even Stop Or Enquire Why It Wasn’t On?
Q. Why Did The First Policeman On The Scene Report A Large Amount Of Blood On The Blanket Beneath Nora, Yet Dr. Orr Does Not Mention Any Blood On The Blanket At All?
Q. Why Wasn’t The Rug Presented For Viewing At The Inquiry?
Q. Why Didn’t The Person At The Sliprails Mind Being Seen?
Q. Why If Murder And Rape Was Intended Was No Rope Taken To The Scene By The Killer?
Q. Why Wasn’t Anyone Gagged If Murder And Rape Was Intended?
Q. Why Were Their Feet Facing Westward?
Q. Why That Paddock?
Q. Why Were All Three Bodies Exhumed When They Were Only Supposedly Looking For A Bullet In Michaels Head?
Q. Why No Exit Wound?
Q. Why Was Urquhart So Confident Burgess Was Their Man?
Q. Why No Tracks Made By The Person Who Discovered The Bodies?
Q. Why Take The Small Dog Cart?
Q. Why Kill The Horse?
Q. Where Did The Gun Come From?
Q. What Was The Purpose Of The Screwed Up Piece Of Gatton Agricultural College Paper?
Q. Why Was The In Memoriam Notice At The Scene?
Q. Why Were The Lunny Letters Near The Scene?
Q. Why Only Buy Gifts For The 2 Murdered Girls And Not The Rest Of The Family?
Q. Why Were They Buried So Quickly? Even Before The Detectives Could Check For Clues?
Q. Why Was Thomas Day So Apathetic?
Q. Why Wasn’t He Pursued When Later On He Supposedly Became A Prime Suspect?
Q. Why Did Urquhart Ask Him To Look In On Burgess When He Left Gatton And Went To Toowoomba. There Was Nothing To Suggest Day Knew Him And By This Time It Was Clear Burgess Was Nowhere Near Gatton At The Time Of The Crime And Was Completely Innocent Of It?
Q. If Rape Was Intended Why Would One Man Take 2 Women And 1 Man Into The Paddock And Not Just 1 Woman (Much Easier?)

[paintedfinch]

thank you Budding Colombo - this is what the forum is about. lots of questions...but facts & testimony answer every one. (except the horses wound..no idea about guns). the cream of the Queenslad Police force hung their hats on Burgess. they did everything within their power to place him at the scene. Toomey & the force even supplied the "Day" individual (who should obviously have been watched closely) with a train ticket to Toowoomba to try to assist them in implicating Burgess. back soon. ian.

[paintedfinch]

about 100 people have read this forum again today. i know i've probably assisted you in the "promotion" of your e-book. my spending hours attempting the impossible seems too big an ask...the answers to every one of your questions is so very simple. but your vested interest can't allow alternate thought - just as happened with Urquhart & his cronies in 1898. i will answer every question you put but others would need to participate in this forum they are obviously following. never intended abuse Budding Colombo...but your refusal to face the most basic of facts astounds me. ian.

[paintedfinch]

seems another "giggle" is just around the corner with the next theory already being drafted. silence by a large number of people constitutes "cover-up" in some minds. it's happening here even now. Budding Colombo can't see why the police aren't being hailed as crime superhumans. they bought the "probable" (and only person ANY evidence pointed to) a ticket out of town. then Urquhart & Toomey sacrificed the reputations of anyone necessary to cover an inexcusable blunder. Toomey said he often needed to "lie" to carry out his police duties. how many times do we see the "honest" cop (Christie) subjected to retaliation by fellow officers who knew they'd "made a mess of it". the testimonies & most of the physical elements you refer to were the sole domain of government officials Colombo. do you honestly believe that in the well-entrenched social standings of 1898, the word of mere backward farmers would be accepted over that of police inspectors, doctors, the media etc..? come on !!! they may be members of the same lodge. ian.

Edited by paintedfinch, 23 June 2010 - 10:43 AM.

[paintedfinch]

ropes & gagging never feature highly in rape cases Colombo. the pleadings & struggle of the victim gives the rapist a bigger thrill than the sexual act. common knowledge - but you are puzzled by it. the gun was brought there by the murderer. the feet pointed west because that's the side of the trees the murderer was pacing. he/they were loving this...would you suggest he had one or more on another side thus obscuring his view of them ? the small cart with the unpredictable "Tom" was a speedy combination. dare i say it - young folk seem to enjoy the odd "race" if it transpires. these are ordinary youngsters out to impress as all do. they spent a deal of time preparing for a big night out..arrived fashionably late & probably were understandably very disappointed when informed few girls & not even the full band turned up. can't see any abnormality whatsoever with these facts Colombo. would love imput from others. my mind is not "closed" Colombo. just needs facts/common sense to delve into fanciful explanations to anything. you are right about Urquhart - no fool there - the commission was set up to give him the opportunity to clear himself & the force. he got his way...from then on their reputations were secured - but the Murphy family were thrown to the wolves. a "lying" press did not help the family. ian.

[paintedfinch]

only ever had one forum to myself (gattonmurders.com)...but it seems i have two now. & i despise every minute of it. honestly thought others would contribute - but i'm sure each has a valid reason to quietly try to understand this catastrophic event. sadly i've been bottling things up for years now & until i'm grabbed by the throat and slapped around i can't shut up. sorry. in my opinion Urquhart was most responsible for the "mystery" tag attached to the Gatton murders. Mrs. Murphy lost 3 children in one blow - Urquhart has her in the commission aggressively demanding which side of the bed she'd put the invalided Mrs. McNeil on the night of the massacre. this is the question of an individual whose sole purpose is to unsettle any witness. as if it mattered one iota. he even accused her of possibly withholding evidence. this is after he'd challenged her religious convictions surrounding the kissing of "the book". she tried to complain about the police attitude towards her & was quickly beaten down by commission toadies with a barrage of questions demanding police names, ranks, postings, and "serious allegations" etc... and people wonder why the Murphy family erected the barrier very necessary for any family to weather such a tragedy. yeah...the authorities were great to the Murphy family. ian.

[paintedfinch]

the murderer was obviously mentally ill - "psychopathic" probably. they don't think like normal folk. the internal pressure intensifies & there is very often a reaction. there's no real planning involved. remember the song "I Don't Like Mondays" as a simplistic example. why kill the horse ? why not ?? nobody need ever know about this. afterwards the individual is often described as being "calm". the pressure has been alleviated. not "apathetic" but somehow "fulfilled". that other paddock business doesn't interest them. psychiatric fact all of this. what do you think ? ian.

[Paracelse]

conspiracybeliever, on 25 September 2008 - 12:39 PM, said:

<!--quoteo(post=2514174:date=Sep 25 2008, 03:51 AM:name=mysterchick)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mysterchick @ Sep 25 2008, 03:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2514174"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Old topic, but was reserching on the internet and this came up, I am very close to this subject, very close to my heart.
If you look int he book 'the gatton murders' the photos int he center of the house? I learned to ride horses at that place, i spent countless nights in that house and my trainer, Pat Murphy(Jnr), was the son of Pat murphy in the story, He was michaels, Ellens, and Norahs nephew. The subject of these murders held a massive burden over his life, his whole life. and we used to look at him in wonder. His life came to an end when his 40 year old daughter commited suicide in that house, and Pat Murphys old, frail mind and body could no longer withstand life. His horses were sold, and he was moved onto a retirement village, where he spent his last days. that house, with all of that history, was knocked down and made into crops. this broke Pats heart. but it happened, its too late now.
Before pat passed, he was telling me all about the gatton murders. He also told me that he knows who did it, and why. he said that he never told anyone, nor will he tell anyone, as he does not want it out in the open as he is deeply ashamed. I have an inkling, but no one will ever know for sure because he was the last person alive to know for sure what happened that day.

I lvoed Pat Murphy Jnr, he was my trainer, my mentor and my life for a very long tiem, and it wasnt until the end that i realised what his life actually involved, from something that happened 10 years before he was born, and was a burden on his shoudlers his entire life.
R.I.P Pat<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This story is so sad. Now I have to find that book. I'll check Amazon. So Pat was the last of the family? They're all gone now? It's so sad.

Wow that is an expensive book. They have 2 on Amazon, both used. One is 29.01 and the other is 47.11. I wonder how much they are new. It must be a good book.

check on www.abebooks.com and biblo.com.. you may also look into alibris.com often prices are lower

[Budding Colombo]

paintedfinch, on 23 June 2010 - 08:37 AM, said:

thank you Budding Colombo - this is what the forum is about. lots of questions...but facts & testimony answer every one. (except the horses wound..no idea about guns). the cream of the Queenslad Police force hung their hats on Burgess. they did everything within their power to place him at the scene. Toomey & the force even supplied the "Day" individual (who should obviously have been watched closely) with a train ticket to Toowoomba to try to assist them in implicating Burgess. back soon. ian.

Maybe you need to have a reasonable answer to some of these questions to help unravel the mystery.
Could it be that Urquhart was destined to follow up on Burgess as he was set up to do this by another member of the force who arrived at the scene first?
The dislike for each other ran very deep and certain members of the force wanted to see to it that Urquhart was made to look a fool?
Perhaps going so far as planting evidence false or otherwise. Read the first section of the book to see what was behind this.

[Budding Colombo]

paintedfinch, on 23 June 2010 - 11:07 AM, said:

ropes & gagging never feature highly in rape cases Colombo. the pleadings & struggle of the victim gives the rapist a bigger thrill than the sexual act. common knowledge - but you are puzzled by it. the gun was brought there by the murderer. the feet pointed west because that's the side of the trees the murderer was pacing. he/they were loving this...would you suggest he had one or more on another side thus obscuring his view of them ? the small cart with the unpredictable "Tom" was a speedy combination. dare i say it - young folk seem to enjoy the odd "race" if it transpires. these are ordinary youngsters out to impress as all do. they spent a deal of time preparing for a big night out..arrived fashionably late & probably were understandably very disappointed when informed few girls & not even the full band turned up. can't see any abnormality whatsoever with these facts Colombo. would love imput from others. my mind is not "closed" Colombo. just needs facts/common sense to delve into fanciful explanations to anything. you are right about Urquhart - no fool there - the commission was set up to give him the opportunity to clear himself & the force. he got his way...from then on their reputations were secured - but the Murphy family were thrown to the wolves. a "lying" press did not help the family. ian.

Could it be possible that was the only cart they had available that would be able to traverse the track?
There are also some anomolies regarding the time they should have arrived at the dance. see http://www.gattonmur...ctimstotown.pdf

[Budding Colombo]

paintedfinch, on 23 June 2010 - 12:02 PM, said:

only ever had one forum to myself (gattonmurders.com)...but it seems i have two now. & i despise every minute of it. honestly thought others would contribute - but i'm sure each has a valid reason to quietly try to understand this catastrophic event. sadly i've been bottling things up for years now & until i'm grabbed by the throat and slapped around i can't shut up. sorry. in my opinion Urquhart was most responsible for the "mystery" tag attached to the Gatton murders. Mrs. Murphy lost 3 children in one blow - Urquhart has her in the commission aggressively demanding which side of the bed she'd put the invalided Mrs. McNeil on the night of the massacre. this is the question of an individual whose sole purpose is to unsettle any witness. as if it mattered one iota. he even accused her of possibly withholding evidence. this is after he'd challenged her religious convictions surrounding the kissing of "the book". she tried to complain about the police attitude towards her & was quickly beaten down by commission toadies with a barrage of questions demanding police names, ranks, postings, and "serious allegations" etc... and people wonder why the Murphy family erected the barrier very necessary for any family to weather such a tragedy. yeah...the authorities were great to the Murphy family. ian.

I can see your point and understand but she was also a very hard lady in her own way. Isn't it strange that none of the children had any sweethearts.

[paintedfinch]

Mrs. Murphy had 10 children in a harsh time in our history..she had to be hard. no sweethearts ? - i don't know how this popped up. Michael was a tall, handsome man who was embroiled in the strike years before & reached Sergeant in the Mounted Infantry. he was only "home" for a short period. his "black book" could have been arranged in volumes for all we know. the police you stoutly defend never questioned his sexuality (or much else but Burgess for that matter). Norah was totally devoted to Polly's children. there is no "evidence" to indicate she didn't have suitors over the years. Ellen was told excitedly that very day by Jimmy Ryan that "Mick" would be at the dance in Mt. Sylvia. had to be something there. once again i don't understand Budding Colombo. facts !!! you appear to be riding the old "Oedipus/Lear" wagon. back where i started. accepting that rancid theory as fact not only ignores recorded "history" but is a direct assault on generations of a family well respected by all their peers. NO evidence supports any such assertion. ian.

[paintedfinch]

in case i fall off my perch tonight (don't get excited BC) i have to mention the press. people are saying "Clarke's man" then Burgess is arrested on January 6..."newspaper reports appeared claiming it was rumoured that Burgess had told the police that on the night of Boxing Day he had camped near the culvert on the Tent Hill road.....(on & on)". outrageous journalism - but never challenged although absolutely untrue. the tone of the investigation, witness identifications, pressure to incriminate Burgess now allowed "Day" a free ticket to obscurity. freedom of the press - equality - justice for all - corrupted badly in Gatton in 1898/9. ian.

[Budding Colombo]

paintedfinch, on 24 June 2010 - 08:50 AM, said:

in case i fall off my perch tonight (don't get excited BC) i have to mention the press. people are saying "Clarke's man" then Burgess is arrested on January 6..."newspaper reports appeared claiming it was rumoured that Burgess had told the police that on the night of Boxing Day he had camped near the culvert on the Tent Hill road.....(on & on)". outrageous journalism - but never challenged although absolutely untrue. the tone of the investigation, witness identifications, pressure to incriminate Burgess now allowed "Day" a free ticket to obscurity. freedom of the press - equality - justice for all - corrupted badly in Gatton in 1898/9. ian.

Wrong read the evidence.

[Budding Colombo]

paintedfinch, on 24 June 2010 - 08:21 AM, said:

Mrs. Murphy had 10 children in a harsh time in our history..she had to be hard. no sweethearts ? - i don't know how this popped up. Michael was a tall, handsome man who was embroiled in the strike years before & reached Sergeant in the Mounted Infantry. he was only "home" for a short period. his "black book" could have been arranged in volumes for all we know. the police you stoutly defend never questioned his sexuality (or much else but Burgess for that matter). Norah was totally devoted to Polly's children. there is no "evidence" to indicate she didn't have suitors over the years. Ellen was told excitedly that very day by Jimmy Ryan that "Mick" would be at the dance in Mt. Sylvia. had to be something there. once again i don't understand Budding Colombo. facts !!! you appear to be riding the old "Oedipus/Lear" wagon. back where i started. accepting that rancid theory as fact not only ignores recorded "history" but is a direct assault on generations of a family well respected by all their peers. NO evidence supports any such assertion. ian.

I truly do not get your point about an assault on the family.
I have simply disected the available information and analaysed it.
Time and time again.
You on the other hand just babble ****.
xxxx