I would like to debate this topic so much....I am against abortion so I would like to debate against someone who is for abortion...
Anyone else, you can add your comments and what you think and you can side with whoever you fell like....
I am going to strongly attack all your beliefs because that is what a good debator does....
I hope to really get somewhere with this topic...please include information from the internt and ill do the same...

Please,the person for aboriton debator goes first...........

Edit: Corrected spelling error.

I am neither one nor the other.

It all depends upon the circumstances, for instance if someone were raped then abortion, if they choose, that option is their business - they did not choose to get pregnant, nor even to have the sex in the first place and if they feel that they could not handle bringing a baby conceived via rape into the world, then abortion may be their only option.

Don't go on about them having the baby adopted either, nine months they would have to carry it and all the time throughout the whole pregnancy, it would bring back awful memories.

No internet information - these are my personal thoughts

You'd think that for something so serious, someone would take the time to look over their typing.

Abortion is sometimes for young women their only option, and for the rest of the community aswell..

Child care services such as orphanages and adoption agencies are underfunded...unless they are sure that the kids can have a good life withouth them (because they could not support the child or it was from a rape) most would choose to not have their children face such hardships..

But their is a time for everything...it has to be done early.

I am a man so it's not my choice, but in that, I would have to say I am prochoice. I'm not saying I'm pro-abortion, I'm just saying that I don't think it's my place to make that decision, but I support that people should be allowed the decision.

Please when creating a thread post it in the appropriate section of the forum. Ancient mysteries and alternatives histories is not the appropriate section for abortion debate and discussion. Also rockangel this is a discussion thread, and debates between only two members simply isn`t going to happen. Numerous members will post their views and beliefs. A structured debates section once existed on this forum and hopefully will make a return. If you are interested please look in the forum archives.

Personally i think that it,s not something anyone can judge untill they themselves have faced that tough momment in their lives! About the only time i am completely against it, is when woman do it over and over useing it as a form of birth controle, rather than behaving responsibly and finding another of the many options available not to get pregnant in the first place! So i guess you could call me pro choice!

I agree.. it depends on the circumstances, if someone was raped then yes, i would understand. But getting pregnant unexpectedly and just saying "oh well, its ok theres a clinic just down the road" im against

I feel the same way. It should not be used as a form of birth control. I wish adoption agencies would make it easier for your "regular" average couple who want a child, but can't conceive, to adopt. Which I can understand some of the restrictions like a stable income and such. But 15,000 + dollars to adopt a child, to love, and take care, and make sure he or she has a good life seems a bit much.

Yes i totally agree! I know the agencies need to cover opperataing costs, but thats a steep fee and some are even more costly!

I also like to debate this topic. I think its wrong to force a female of any age to carry a parasite-like organism after rape, failed birth control or just plain stupidity (lets face it, no one wants stupid women raising babies). And that's just for starters. I will participate but so will many others.



You're not for one or the other but it depends on the circumstances? Sorry but that's a bit confusing.



*applause* Men pretty-much rule the world on average country by country and its nice to know that some men still believe a woman's body is her business.

If I say I am pro, it looks like I would just say, "abortion? yeah, why not, do it even if you find out after a scan that the sex of the baby is opposite to what you want" - however, if I say I am anti, then to say have an abortion after rape or some other situation, makes me look like a hypocrite.

As I said, I am neither pro nor anti, it depends entirely upon the situation in the first place.

while I'd like to say wrong and I think after a certain point it is --I've seen how unwanted pregnancies have ruined not just a young womans life but the child's as well. adoption is frequently thrown as a answer yet that road has it's faults.

I would rather a woman didn't have one but I would vote for a woman's right to choose what she wants to do with her own body. this is America and she should have that right without a bunch of Christians telling her what to do. why don't they make themselves more useful and handle the homeless problem with the same vigor.?

With all due respect Ripley, i,m a Christian who is pro choice and i,ve met many an athiest who are against abortions to the extreme!

i say.. im against, but then.. its their choice (the woman / the couple)
for medical purpose (mutated, rape, inbreed, dangerous for mom, etc) i agree
but if its happen after couple month when the baby is growing up(already have complete bodypart) , im so against that.

i am pro-choice.. i think it depends on the circumstance. as have been hilighted before, rape being one of them.. the child has a genetic condition or deformity. i myself have to make the decision, when and if i get pregnant to keep the child if i have passed on a genetic problem.. i know a few ppl who have said 'dont worry about it' but at the end of the day it is not fair on the child to be brought into the world with serious genetic problems.
as has been brought up before, women who use it as a means of contraception are idiots.. seriously, after a couple of times you'd think they'd get the gist of things.

I agree i'm pro-choice, I feel though that it is wrong for the reasons most think it is but everyone has a right to their own decisions.
I'm not christian but god didn't give us free-will for nothing.
There are many circumstances of which I would not want to bring a child into this world, especially if I cannot give them what they need or it would be painful for them.
Those who use it as a form of contraception need a psych evaluation... seriously lol something this serious can't be taken with a grain of salt.
I'm not a fan of children and being female you tend to cop alot of slack for having such views but I don't see why people can't understand that if I don't want a child, therefore I cannot give them everything, or am not willing to (as harsh as that sounds) I couldn't have them, I couldnt even adopt knowing that one day they will want to know me and how bad they will feel when my reasons for giving them up are quite pitiful.
I know many will disagree with my reasoning but I couldn't be less of a mother than my own, she is wonderful and if I have a child I must be like her.
just my opinion... but if you ask if I would feel bad, yes I would feel terrible.

Im for abortion, think how many people would be here if abortion was illegal. their is way to many special miracles already on this planet.

ABORT ABORT ABORT ABORT ABORT

I could care less what other people do with their bodies. It isn't my business.

You do whats best for your situation.

I'm sort of on the same track with Distorted Pandy --

I don't understand at times why it's a /public/ debate. If you think it's wrong, then /don't do it/. What right to do you have to dictate to others what they can or can't do? Any why should you have the right to use the government to force your ideas on others and to take the rights of others away?

--Jaylemurph

Well said!

(I think this could be the first time we've agreed on anything, jaylemurph.... )

Not the first, but one of few...

BTW, I quite like your tiger!

--Jaylemurph

Parasite - like organism? I dont care for that term. I am not trying to be rude but, How does a "Parasite - like organism" turn into one of these?







I guess I agree with Lotus, however its hard for me as I do believe life begins at conception. I guess all I can say is I myself could never have an abortion.

Having said what I said before, I do want to add that I have a lot of respect for people who don't have abortion because their faith (or their conscience) tells them not to. I think it's admirable to bend one's self to the will of god and to have such compassion and love for others.
I just don't think that personal decision transfers over to anyone else.

--Jaylemurph

my apologies for disrespect. I had just read how in ( Iowa?) how a new clinic was built , not even used yet and the new workers were harassed by pro lifers. although to be fair there was a Reverend that was there with the pro choice crowd.

I just think there are more important things that just get passed over. there are homeless children in this country they should be helping them. struggling families who have lost their homes in this economy. too many others that need help now to worry about what a woman does with her own body.

it's mob mentality.

Ah, I see.



Sorry but I like it just fine in some circumstances.

I completely understand! And your right! There are so many holier than thow people out there from all walks of life and all religions, and they might be thinking they are doing whats right, but they ignore the more important situations that are exsisting right here and now and need attention way more than stupidly picketing other peoples rights to choose their own path! Yeah that mob mentality only makes them feel more selfrightious and act more like idiots! It,s really sad!

One quick kind of on topic/kind of off topic question: I thought rockangel created this thread saying that they like to debate people who are for abortion.....but it seems like they went missing. Where did rockangel go? I was really looking forward to hearing their side of the debate.

It needs to be a decision made by both the mother and the father of the child. If one wants an abortion and the other doesn't, then it should be taken before a judge.

If the child is a result of rape, then yeah, abort away.

I'm all for abortion. Couldnt do it myself but thats up to me.
I agree with girty parasitic organism pretty much covers it. Stealing all the goodness from your body, it makes you sick and the rest of it.

No.... I did not read it like that and agree with how I read it.... It has no bearing what the father's opinion is.... The mother has full responsibility for her decision. Fyrthermore, legally the mother is then entitled to get payments from the father.

AN ex-girlfriend of mine used to take advantage whilst I was asleep and damaged protection. I soon got away from that situation, and thankfully I did not have any other responsibilities from this crazy woman.

In conclusion.... It does not matter whether I am for or against abortion as my opinion and thoughts in the real world are irrelevant as a male.

Thank god for the case of the frozen embryo's being destroyed because the couple were no longer together, and ruled that the woman could not take posession.

Maybe others don't see it this way, but I find this post to be a total contradiction.

The bottom line is that a woman has a right to determine what to do with her body. It is not up to anyone else, not the government, not the courts, not a man, and not other women to dictate what she can do with her own body.

And I do believe that people seem to forget that most rapists are KNOWN by the victim, often by people who are already husbands/boyfriends. By the above logic, would these people still have a say in whether or not a woman has the right to her abortion? Would you have to prove the rape? Would special paternity tests need to be done in order to determine who is the father and whether or not he has the right to his input on the abortion? And you have to consider rape stats, for example how few sexual assaults are reported.

The bottom line is, you have the legal right to do what YOU want to your body, and it should stay that way.

It's not like women can legally force a man to have a vasectomy if she does not want to have a child. Each person remains accountable for himself or herself.

That does indeed bring up an interesting question; should a man in a relationship be held responsible and made to make child support payments for the next 18 years for a child when the female in said relationship tampers with the birth control? Lets say the two have discussed birth control methods and decided that they were not in the market for a baby. Lets say the female, under false pretences said she was on responsible birth control when in fact she was not and a pregnancy is the result because she really wanted a baby no matter what. Should the father be responsible for paying child support and half of the college tuition?

Ooooh what a looney! my cousins ex tried to do that.

I think you should take that post with a grain of salt. I only beleive men have a say if the couple are indeed still together and truly in love. I think it needs to be a mutual decision there but yes it is our choice, it is afterall our body and everyone should respect our right to a decision.
I don't get what you meant by the rape statistics and so on? yes they may have known their attacker but there was no sexual consent so it's really another kettle of fish all together.

I hope that your baby is born healthy and that he/she loves you as much as you love him/her.

Ha ha, lol. I'm sorry, but that response was classic.

Personally, I think it depends on the situation. If the fetus is diagnosed with a serious disease that could tear the family apart and give the child a life not even worth living, then I support it. If it was from rape, then I support it. If the mother doesn't feel that she is capable of supporting a child at the moment (or at all), I say it's somewhat of a shame, but I still support it because it was the mother's own decision.

EDIT: Please note, that even if I didn't support abortion, I still wouldn't want it to be illegal. Even if it was illegal, abortions would still happen, but instead of in a clinic they would be done in a backalley with a clothes hanger.

Regardless of the law I would support the child as they would be the innocent party in this.... If mother was particularly bad, strange or whatever I would attempt custody, but inevitably fail because I a male, but I would support the child as IMO it would be the right thing to do to have someone benefit the community in the future and that is my responsibility (whether emotional, financial etc....)

Sounding string on this, but an important issue and opinion for myself

^I would do the same Roj47 however there should not be any requirement for the male to assist the mother or child if he was blatanly lied to and tricked into creating the child when he had also expressed his desire not to have children. The right thing to do would be to support the child as many would however they shouldn`t be required by law to do so in the circumstances that Girty outlined.

That is an excellent point. If a women has the right to deny a man the chance to become a father then equally a man has the right to not become a father in the first place. If that right is over-ruled then the financial responsibility should be solely placed on the women. imo.

Would we really not hold men accountable for their own children on the basis that "She tricked me"?


His kid = his responsibility.

So in effect your saying it's his responsibilty when it suits the women?

What?

You have a kid, it's your responsibility. Whether you're a man or a woman, if that child is born you both have a responsibility to ensure the child's safety and security.

Perhaps i wasn't clear enough....

So if the woman doesn't want the child then the man has no say but if she does (but he doesn't) then he has to take responsibility?

I'll toss this one in for you, find it kinda funny, though I agree this guy is only getting a few points of view, I have asked a couple people myself and they pretty much said the same thing; "I never thought about it".

Libertyville Abortion Demonstration

When a baby is born.. the father has to sign a paternity agreement saying he is the father, if he does not agree to sign, and the mother wants child support, it goes to court and blood tests, and this is when the father has a right to contest the mothers claims.. if proof can be found that the woman deceived the father in some way (which is actually more common then you would think) he doesn't have to pay a dime. If a woman conceives and runs, and the man has no contact with her, and no idea there is a child, theres a good chance the father doesn't have to pay if he doesn't want to.. I'm pretty sure this is how Snoop Dog Gets out of paying billions on child support... >.> Course.. how often do you hear about men who don't pay their child support?

And using abortion as a contraceptive... it costs $500+, depending on the state.. if you can afford to do that every 3 months or so, you can afford paying $40 once every 3 months for the Depo shot, no little pills to deal with. I do agree though, having a child can screw your whole life up.. even if you are giving it up for adoption, you have to spend 9 months dealing with it, and not just the pains, but you lose work, you miss classes, if your underage you might be removed from school, you may lose friends or family, you might have second thoughts, and at the end, after carrying it for so long, you will most likely have depression over losing the child, even if it is going to a good home, which I'm sure is a lot harder after feeling it kick, and seeing the ultrasounds, and hearing people say "aww when are you due" then it is at 6 weeks when its the size of a pea and really looks like nothing more then a ball of goo... All those evil pictures you see of aborted babys, which I would rather not link >.< are not the 6-12 week recommended abortion time.. most states allow first trimester only, some allow 2nd trimester, but require some counseling before they'll go ahead with it, and only in the most dire of cases are 3rd trimester abortions preformed... when there a risk of death for the mother. Most of the pictures you see are past the 12 week mark.. 2nd trimester pregnancies, and yes, I agree, if your going to wait that long to decide, you've lost your chance.. but there are 3 months you can make up your mind and get it done. 3 months to look at all the facts and decide for yourself, which is more then enough time.

My sister had her first child at 16.. I begged her to get an abortion.. she was living with my mother in a homeless shelter, the father was nowhere to be found, and she was barely making it in school... for her own sake, for her future, I even offered to pay.. but she refused.. shes 18 now, living in free housing, stopped going to school, doesn't have a job, and pregnant again.. without the father >.<. Sometimes you have to be a little selfish.. if she had given up that child and changed her ways.. she could have graduated high school, gotten a decent job and been able to provide for any children she had later.. she would have given up one child, yes, but made her life, and her future children's lives better in the process. And this could happen at any age, not just 16.

And before someone says something that I've heard many times before.. I can't have children.. I had my uterus and ovaries removed almost 6 years ago due to cancer, lucky I got one beautiful daughter before it happened.... and one day.. I might adopt another child. None of that changes my opinion, its a womans choice, and no one has a right to tell her its wrong. Ever.

Edit; I am the typo Queen!

This is my take on abortion...When my daughter was 18, and right before graduating High School, she found out she was pregnant..My husband and I had always emphasized to our 3 kids, that whenever they had a problem, no matter if it was big or small, to come to us...She did, and when the initial shock wore off, we discussed it rationally....Abortion was bought up (in my eyes she was my baby, having a baby)...She was very adamant about not having one...My husband and I knew that it was her decision, and we also knew that we would be helping her take care of the baby...I am so glad that we did not try to talk her out of her decision...I look at my grandson, who will be 16, and cannot imagine our lives without him...I love all my 7 grandchildren, but he holds a special place in my heart, because I may never have known him....

A partner of mine had an abortion years back, my opinions didn't matter to her. My current partner can't have children so i've got no chance of ever becoming a dad. What does it matter though, my opinions are irrelevant as i'm just a bloke.

Can always adopt.. thats part of the problem though.. I looked into adopting last year, and if you had any idea how many children there where who needed familys.. its sad, people should be thinking about the kids we have now.. instead you get protesters at clinics.. if they have the time to stand there for 6 hours 3 days a week, they have the time to take care of a child.. if they can drive up in their nice cars and pull out their Kinkos made signs, they can afford to adopt a kid and "save a life".

Once the baby is born both parents have the responsibility to bring up the child.

I know what you're getting at, but I don't find that abortion factors into this whatsoever. Until the day that men can get pregnant and have abortions, it is solely up to the woman to decide whether or not to continue her pregnancy.

People can "what if" as much as they want, but men have absolutely no right to dictate what a woman does with her body.

I'm going to bow out of this before i say something i regret, i'll leave you all to it..