You know what blows about most of these topics? Everyone argues the fact that anything exists. Stating they want proof. Well do your own damn research on the topics posted. Can't any topic be posted without arrogant closed minded people demanding evidence? Can't a topic be discussed on possibility, without arguement? Arguement is not debate. Share ideas, share facts, and yes opinion, but when neither side has proof, doesn't mean the other side is wrong. Share what you know, decide for yourself. This happens on every pulbic forum on nearly any topic.
If someone offers links pertaing to a topic I'm interested in. I'll spend the time to learn instead of attacking the OP cause I "know I'm right" . That's crap. share, learn decide, but don't puch your arrogance on others. Peace

Well, if someone comes here and claims they can levitate objects, set things alight with their mind, seen the Yeti and know the moon landing was falsified don't you think they should provide some evidence to back that up?

Or should we all just go along with it because we can't disprove their claim?

Man, I really get sick of quoting this but..."Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".

PS. Debate is just moderated arguing.

Wouldn't that bold part include things such as sharing evidence? It is up to the people making claims to give something to back themselves up and do the research.

If someone wants the discussion of possibilities they can simply say "I admit to having nothing more than ideas, so let's discuss it on that merit. I don't claim to have evidence, so what might some possibilities be?" Do you see what I mean? But too often, people don't understand that they only have a hypothesis, which can be discussed freely and ideas (however crazy) can be discussed as long as it is known that no one is claiming they KNOW anything, because they never do. People confuse that with theories which actually require facts.


You can't decide unless someone gives evidence for their claims. Otherwise it is just something that cannot be discussed as anything more than one person's silly idea. Your post seems kind of ranting and shooting from the hip that, honestly, is a bit lacking in the making sense category.

The whole point of threads is for people to debate. You cant just post extraordinary thngs and expect people to believe without prove, otherwise this place would just become a farce. Each to their own.

And well said Mad manfred

Disproving with facts an resources is different then just saying, "Show me proof" I've read alot of that. I've also seen cliams get shut down in a few posts because some has the knowledge and the proof. That's all good. I'm talking about those that demand and provide nothing.

Like arguing just for the sake of arguing? I agree with all teh posts so far, they all have valid points. If the debating/arguing is done respectful without personal attacks, then it can be interesting for everyone, since there may be a point made to make the reader think down a different tangent. The problem I find is that some people think it is OK to tell others that they are "dumb" "stupid", I've even seen "r******ed" on here. So, you disagree with me, it doesn't mean that I deserve to be verbally attacked.

No.

I never knew using rational thought and logic would be a bad thing. Hmm.

It goes back to what someone said earlier -- you think in a place where debate is fostered and expected, it's okay to lay down an idea and say "Just because I say this is a good enough reason for you to believe it and you certainly ought not to question it"?

If you think it doesn't behoove the person making a claim, especially the extraordinary ones that get bandied about here, to prove it, and moreover, that /others/ need to go out and do that research for them, sounds a little disingenuous.

--Jaylemurph

Darn right. The legal system would be so much easier if they didn't keep insisting on that pesky evidence.
I love the way, incidentally, that demanding evidence is "closed minded", and yet accepting claims absolutely unquestioningly is somehow open minded. Open minded in the sense of how a bucket is open to anything that anyone pours into it, maybe, but do you want to just accept everything and never question any of it?

Seriously, though, what's the point of posting anything, starting a thread about anything, if all that one wants is for everyone to go "yes, that's amazing", or "gosh, that's awesome". is that want you want? You don't actually want people to discuss it? I mean, if someone's going to claim, say, that there are underground bases in Nevada where the U.S. government is collaborating with the aliens to do outrageous things, then people are going to want some sort of evidence to back this up, aren't they? Mad Manfred got in first with the quote about extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary proof, I see.

? You say you're fed up with people saying "show me proof", but then you say that when someone does provide proof, that's a good thing. Do you want proof or don't you? Or are you complaining because the people saying "show me proof" don't provide it themselves? So it is ok to provide proof, but not ok to ask for it? People should only post things if they know the facts, and not if they're curious about something or would like to find out more about it?

The purpose of this site is to shed some light on unexplained mysteries, or explain them. Not as a platform for the projection of our brain masturbation. The minimum presented should be a workable hypothesis. "I believe it is so" is not a workable hypothesis.

Ad Hominem attacks are not acceptable within this forum. In particular:

3f. Abusive behaviour: Do not be rude, insulting, offensive, snide, obnoxious or abusive towards other members.

If you do see somewhere where this happens, please report it, so that the Moderation team can deal with it appropriately. The sheer volume of posts each day means that the Moderation team are unable to review each and every post that's made here individually (although we try our hardest), so, if they're not reported, sometimes they can slip through the net.

All reported posts will be reviewed by the Forum Moderation team.

I'd also like to briefly mention that only the Moderation team are aware of who raises the report and that we will never divulge that information to anyone else. In general, the Moderation team will not even disclose that we've received a report about the post in question, unless there have been a number of them made.

So, please - feel safe and secure about using the report button. The Moderation team would rather receive multiple reports about the same post, than none at all.

I understand what you mean, I myself have had things like "so, your a witch, PROVE IT" or, "your house is haunted? PROVE IT" now I'm all for people asking me to provide extra information and such but would it really kill some people to say, "what are some of the things you can do? would you mind explaining that a little further?" or "are you able to get any vid/pics/recordings from your house?" If you want someone to prove or further explain something use your manners and ask nicely. 9/10 times you will only get hated on right back from the topic starter.

Some people here on the other hand LOVE to argue and put people down, I have seen quite a bit of this, sometimes it's like watching a typed soap opera. Ignore the trouble starters, all they want is to put some excitement into their lives. If someone does start demanding "proof" or something of the like or just plain being ignorant or putting you down don't flare back at them...... it's what they want. Just do a few of "yeah whatever like i really care what you say dude" and move on.

I think we have a small different here, being a witch is not a scientific quantity but a form of believe. You want to sell me a ghost... well yes I would like to see some kind of evidence. If you say that you believe in a ghost, then we are back at the first case.

Now, If you want to sell me that the pyramids are made of some kind of cement blocks that have been brought from Mars you bet that I want some evidence.

All i'm trying to say is that some people need to ask more politely instead of demanding like they are royalty...... was just using witchcraft as an exapmple of what i mean.

this site wouldn't be very good if we all sat around stroking each others egos. but we should all do it in a friendly manner, if not friendly, then a funny way at least

So you never get tired of kiddies claiming x men powers? People saying they are possesed by demons? After years of hearing this, we just want a little proof.

There is no problem with people claiming stuff like they can shoot lasers out of their eyes or they are a witch and can cast spell's that work. The problem is most people who claim this sort of stuff just wish to find people who think the same way or people who will just take their word for it so they can feel special and have attention. It's pointless making amazing claims if you are not willing to backup those claims with some sort of evidence.

I had a post once, where someone said I was stupid...just so happened that I read it before she edited it...So I just put a after my not to nice reply....

I like this one. Simple and eloquent.

That's too bad. That is one word that I don't allow in my house. Most times I just don't bother posting. There are times when I feel strongly about a subject, put a response, get put down and I just ignore that thread. I am not going to waste my time and energy to argue for what? Some stranger sitting miles away and feeling good about themselves for putting someone else down? Obviously they aren't ahppy in their real life, so I am not going to be their kicking post.

There are bad eggs on both sides who feel they need to just be nasty which is a shame but it happens.





Well if I was to make a claim that I had some sort of power or could speak to the dead or someting else and some jerk was putting me down and asking for proof then I would make him/her eat their words and show them proof. I would not make up some excuse or just get fed up and run away.

Edit to add:

Im not having ago at you or anything I think i better use the emergency smilie faces to prove it

LOL, see humour works wonders!

"now I'm all for people asking me to provide extra information and such but would it really kill some people to say, "what are some of the things you can do? would you mind explaining that a little further?" or "are you able to get any vid/pics/recordings from your house?"

'Ok, I am asking, nice, can you do/prove any of this?

"all they want is to put some excitement into their lives" same can be said for the people with stories. I dont mean to be rude but it's true.

If you want someone to prove or further explain something use your manners and ask nicely. 9/10 times you will only get hated on right back from the topic starter.'

I am asking nicely. I would love proof, and if you have it then please show me, be it ghosts, big foot, aliens, ESP, whatever. I WANT to believe. I just need some proof.

so yes, asking for proof for something does make one a jerk.

ok, thanks for the clarification.

Well me personally i do get tired of it yes, but i ignore them. Like i already said.... i have no problem with people asking for proof, just ask nicely and dont be such a dick about it. (not talking about you personally though Eric )

Hi my psychosis,

As far as saying my house was haunted (i do not live there anymore) was mostly just my experiences, i did not try recording for EVP (quite frankly i just didnt want to hear anything like that in my own house) I posted a thread about it some time ago (titled my very haunted house if you would like to read it) the only thing i ever got on film "might" be an orb, now i say might because i'm very sceptical about orbs lol but the topic is there and if you care to discuss it further then that's fine. As for proving witchcraft? That's another can of beans entirely.... you cannot "see" magic, anyone can record themselves performing a ritual/spell but that's not exactly proof now is it? lol but on the other hand you can feel magic. You would actually have to be in the presence of a performing "true" witch. What i mean about "true" witch is that someone who has spent a great deal of time working and developing their magical powers if you will, not someone who picks up a few spell books and candles and "BANG" they are a witch. I'm not asking you to believe in magic/ghosts but all i can do is tell you of my experiences.... Feel free to ask me anything you like

No it does not but it is how sometimes it can be asked. Like say for instance you say you can shoot fireballs from the tips of your fingers. And I reply by saying oh you are a crazy misguided x-men wannabe, show me some proof.

That is me being a jerk asking for proof because I had to put you down while asking for it. I could have asked without the need to run you down. But also the problem is some one will turn up and make a claim that they have abilites or powers then just want people to take their word for it and discuss the subject which is silly because it means they are just looking for one group of people who will play lets pretend.

Exactly....

I agree with you. I get annoyed when people ask for proof online and then A. Ignore it or B. Dismiss it because its just googled.

I hate googling information I think its stupid. I prefer people's actual experiences and just the idea of a good dialogue.

So what if everyone's wrong or right, its the thinking that matters.

This is UNEXPLAINED Mysteries... what's the big deal if something is unexplainable or can be defined by proof?

I do not like it when people attack; and I have seen it. That is just wrong.

I see no problems asking for someone's "proof". I guess it boils down to whether or not you want to indulge yourself into believing what someone explains as "their proof".

When it comes to haunting's I am definitely interested in hearing anything and everything from both sides.

Other things just don't interest me so I don't even read those posts or threads.

I guess it all boils down to WHY you are a member here. I am here to learn, maybe make a few friends, look into and read about other's experiences. That's what interest's me.

Anyway, yes, some things I do require "proof" like aliens, wild powers like throwing fireballs or whatever, stuff like that.

I feel people should believe what they want to believe; especially when it comes to God or NO God, religion or no religion, hauntings and whatever...

That's what makes this site interesting. Anyway, just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.

Here's where I'd differ with you. If someone claims that they can shoot fire from their fingers than I wouldn't feel all that bad saying they're an x-men crackpot. Is that anymore insulting than their presenting such a ridiculous idea to any rational person? Which is more of an affront? It's like a con game you can see right through. If you can see the con then you have to accept the fact that the con man sees you as a gullible mark. That's in insult from the get go.

Mad, this is off topic, but I have to know where your avatar is from. I love it.

Congrates 'V'. standing ovation!!!!!! I didnt have the guts or the brains to say this myself, I new It was a matter of time, before someone who actually knows what there talking about mentioned this.
I come to UM to learn and share, not argue the point.

I like to hear and see that everybody with a point of veiw is respected and not heckled.
Common sence and the willingness to understand, If be It not your belife then Yes' theres no need to badger.

As we all know, UM is a community of ppl from all over, young and wise. In this day and age we should just "let".

"Let without ridicule"

10/10 for thevocalist!

It is okay to share but not play lets pretend as some like to do. For example coming here to share with us that someone can transform into a wolf or eagle is a amazing claim that would really impress everyone if some evidence or proof could be shown, But coming on here to just tell us you can transfrom into a wolf or eagle without wanting to show any type of proof or evidence is silly because that is just wanting to play make believe. People do not realise the problems they cause when they humour people who claim they have special abilites by playing a long and pretending like they have.

[Pardon for I cant spell] lol
Exactly............ most of those that claim this and that are btw 12 & 16 yrs old, and good on them to. Tis the imagination that helps one to grow. Those that post in a thread about werewolves and dragons and such, who have an opinion that doesnt fit the criteria of the coversation should'nt bother adding a post If they dont belive or respect that topic of the post. If you dont belive, what ever one thinks is %%%% then dont post I say.
Claiming without proof to transform should be left at that, people make posts to those that are interested and have something decent to say, do so.

Ive seen way to many responces to posts that are uneccesary and irrelavent.

Im myself have never humoured anyone in a post, only ever asked about the origins of ones belifes. Admitedly and modestly Ive a habit of posting comicaly. Anyone that pretends is fake. Those that reply in response are just curious.

Like I mentioned, common sence weighs well over any post about well known fiction.

Without sounding like a norb maybe a thread should be dedicated to those that are interested in pretend play.

[quote/"C" People do not realise the problems they cause when they humour people who claim they have special abilites by playing a long and pretending like they have. /quote]
Although what youv'e said Chaos is very concerning to me.
Have you come across this sort of thing actually happening?

All of who are apart of the UM community should know better than to humour in the hope of a "bite back responce".

Wicked, sort and sweet. Best responce yet.

No idea, sorry. Wish I knew actually

Found it on a Japan animated gif site a few months back.

QM,

Man, you hit the nail on the head with this post.

Making a wild new claim about a well-understood subject is not the same thing as claiming that you can sometimes dream the future or that you can influence events through some sort of willpower exercise.

Also, many here might be surprised to learn that I disagree with Emma insofar as the oft-quoted "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

I think extraordinary claims are claims that have no evidence. That's why they are extraordinary. Typical extraordinary claims have for their so-called "evidence" falsifications and lies. Purposefully mischaracterized factoids and pure unadulterated bull. All other claims are just claims. All claims require evidence.

Also, I don't believe she's a witch. So hex me!

Harte

And you hit the nail there mate.

This thread is nothing new, another peep complaining about skeptics............bah.... I won't even bother to say anything more.

Cheers.

Apparently, us skeptics ruin everyones fun. Without believers the skeptics would have nothing to talk about. Without skeptics this would be never never land.