The Christ-led Church speaks well of God.

In this I mean: Christ stands before the Father forever on our behalf; keeping us forever in the love and mercy of the LORD. When he was on earth, he taught us how to love God and love our neighbors with all our heart. If we could do that, then we would understand true worship. I challenge the Christian readers to take back what is ours: Peace, Joy, Tolerance, Faith, Trust, Endurance, Kindness, Humility, and Hospitality. Its a sad thing that the government had to take up sheltering the homeless because the Church stopped doing it. Its a sad thing that the government had to take up feeding the hungry because Church stopped doing it. Who visits the sick and takes care of them? Who visits those in prison when the opportunity is at hand?

When was the last time you heard that the money you put in the collection plate made a difference in the life of someone else? I don't doubt that the Church does this, but the world should hear the testimonies of those we help. And if they won't tell it, we should.

What if, in my town of over 36,000, about 5,000 attended Church every weekend. If the Churches in my town raised five dollars from every adult in the congregations to a local fund, we could raise enough money to rent a shelter, feed the hungry, cloth the poor, teach the uneducated, and provide jobs for them. Just somewhere down the line of history, Christians started thinking Church was about being happy and not having the boat rocked. In any event that men become selfish and desperate to survive, they stop caring for others. The same goes with Churches.

I challenge you to turn your hearts to your people with compassion; making a good name for Christ. For what you do to the least of God's people, you do so also to God. God bless

Spoken like a true loving kind christian, therefore, I hope all your prayers get answered Blue...Im not christian but I have a heart and still believe in God

That was wonderful, and the best part about it was - NO ONE made you post it, this was something you chose yourself. What you have actually done here is reach out and you have spoken how I always imagined a true christian should IMO


Excellent post Blue

Nice one, Blue, but ya gonna have to be a little tricky about it so that people don't feel forced into anything, you could for example try speaking to their hearts for example. Another problem is that there are poor members who haven't got enough for themselves, and worst of all is the thought of the whole thing turning into a bleedin show. But like I said, it's a nice idea, so if you really want to give it a go then do it, because if there is a will then there's certainly also a way. Good luck with it, lad

well said....there are some congregations here that are doing this...and we have many who do not....the main one who does not has the biggest church and the most of everything...if you apply to them for help, they make it almost impossible to get but they don't refuse to help, you understand don't you???they never say no but they don't want to be taken advantage of either...so they risk not making a difference when it may really count to someone in favor of making sure that someone who really doen't need it won't take advantage of that church's good and helpful nature...i hope God has a special place for the ones who run this program....but all that said, the town i live in does make an effort through most churches to help those who need it...and that is nice to see....

randomhit10

Yes, but a little innovation would not harm so that the poor don't feel they should stay away from Sunday meetings if they enjoy beeing there

Yes, its a test of faith. I think the bigger Church should not guard its money so safe. If people give that money to the Church freely, then they give it to those who need it. You will always run that risk of being taken advantage of. But God supports us when we support each other and those in need. We shouldn't hold back, lest it appears that we love our money more than our neighbors.

Thats something else I was thinking. I wouldn't want someone to give just so they can feel like a good person. If their heart isn't into blessing others and Christ-centered, then I wouldn't want them to donate. This would mean that the money doesn't have direction and its in God's hands. As much as we know that everything is in God's hands, to not support each other is the same as saying that we don't care. That sets a bad example. Thanks for the support. Take care

Oh deary me Blue...the non christian herself said some encouraging words about your post.....the SHOCK how dare she!!!! IGNORE HER QUICK LOL

ah you crack me up BM. I appreciate your support, it means a lot to me. Does that mean that you're warmin up to the Christian side?

Great thought B, you hit the problem right on the "finger". Remember when Christ said that not all who call on his name he would answer? This I think pertains to those who sit in church but are only there to see what the lord can do for you, instead of what you can do for the lord. I do have to give account for some though. A few years ago I went to pay my phone bill at the local office and sitting outside in the 100 degree heat was a young kid dressed in all black winter clothes, very very thick, made for the winter. I went in and left but came back and caught the local police asking him questions. He was about to be taken in for vagrancy when they let me take him to the local church for help. He was an 18 year old kid from Maryland, Darrel is his name, he had come to Florida to sell magazines and was left here by the company. I took him to the closest Catholic Church, St. Judes to be exact and they agreed to buy a bus ticket and give him $50 to buy food on the trip home. Of course they double checked our story to make sure they weren't being scammed, but they helped him when I couldn't. If I had had the money, any extra at all, I would have done it myself. It was a bad time when I was unemployed and a single parent. Make a long story short they whipped out a large checkbook and paid the $200 dollars and got him home to his parents.

If everyone that could, would do, then we would be closer to being what Christ wanted. It gave me a different look at those that are Catholic in our area and was the day I learned not to classify people by their church anymore.

Haven't thought of Darrel for many years until now so thanks for bringing up a good memory!

Point is some are doing it, just not enough!!!

AMEN

I agree with the original poster... I live in the bible belt of Southern Baptist where the churches spend tens of millions of dollars on facilites and the wealth the acrew goes only to benifit themselves. Thats one problem I have with churches of today. Do really need that mulit million dollar Basket Ball gym when theres way more important ways to spend that money to better society and peoples lives. I belive though these chruches are on the mentality that if they spend an impressive amout of money on material objects that they will get better numbers in there church thus ultimatly uping thier profit gains. Its kinda sad churchs think and are ran like corparations now...

For example one of the local wealthy churches in my area just impolded on its self recently because there was a split on how the money in the chruch should be handled, not where the money was going but who had control of the money. It was a long dramatic process and it ended up in a chruch wide vote that pretty much left the church mangled beyond repair.

I have warmed up to the christian side...meaning, I understand them more than I did say - this time last year lol....I can read a christians posts and if it makes sense, i will grace it with compliments...and love to ask questions YES...this time last year i would have stayed clear of it and been baised towards it all...

Ive just thought of something ...doesnt the Salvation Army give to the needy?

I have to agree Blue many churches only pay lip service to those in need. Most are like a country club that meets on Sundays to polish their egos. Other than a few noteworthy examples I personally have witnessed in action. The Salvation Army is one of those organizations that put their money were there mouth is, building shelters and feeding and nurturing street people the kind of projects that Christ would be concerned with. Another organization I am very impressed with is the Mennonite community. Back in 1996 I my daughter and I volunteered a couple of weeks to clean up after the floods in southern Manitoba. There group was the ones who provided us with accommodations and food while we were there, if we needed gas masks or shovels they were there for us. There disaster services put the Red Cross to shame.
I was there as part national service club endeavor (Kinsmen Clubs of Canada) much like Rotary or Lions clubs international. They provided me the fellowship opportunity and community service that I was not getting through my church. I would recommend service organizations to anyone of whatever faith or belief to get involved with and give a little backs to the community we live in.

Irish

Its a shame. If the main body of the Church doesn't care, it sends of the signal that Christ doesn't care. What else can we do to fix this?

All it really takes is an individual to make a plan of action and most of all follow through.
Get five or six friends together and contact a local soup kitchen and volunteer to provide and cook a meal once a month.
Organize a clean up day followed perhaps by a few beers on a Saturday afternoon, make it a fun event and challenge each other, who can fill a garbage bag the fastest.
On your own practice random acts of kindness, Dress in stealth like cloths and sneak over and mow an elderly person’s lawn or tidy up their yard.
Buy a loaf of bread and some bologna and make up some sandwiches to give out on the street.
If you can sing read or play an musical instrument drop my the local shelter or nursing home and provide a little light hearted entertainment for an hour.
Everyone can truly make a difference in this world if they just make the time to do it!

Irish

Exactly...Indeed they are...pity other christian churches ...they should take a leaf out of their book

Sounds good. I'll run that by the pastor when I meet him today.

I've seen both ends of the spectrum--I've seen churches spend vast amounts of money on ridiculous and uncessary building projects, and then I've seen churches do some miraculous things with the money by way of tending to the poor.

In my area, local churches of all denominations support a local "Help Office." This was started by the Catholic Church, but soon other churches (non-Catholic) began participating. They supply food, clothes and sometimes money to the needy. I drive by the office every morning and am amazed at how many people gather outside waiting for the office to open. The Help Office was recently featured in our local newspaper because their storehouses and funds were almost depleted. In a matter of months, they received donations from the entire community that put them in a better position to serve the poor than they have ever been before. Our church also sponsors a "Safe House" for women who are hiding from abusive spouses.

One of my pet peeves is when I see churches building bigger and better churches when there is really no need. My friend, who is a Southern Baptist, just pledged $8,000 a year to build their new, million-dollar-plus church. Her husband made the pledge--she doesn't know where the money is going to come from. They have a daughter that will be going to college soon, and they won't have the money to pay for it. She pays the bills--and she doesn't know how they are going to keep in the black and still give that money to the church. This has caused quite a strain on their marriage. I wonder if they really need that expensive new church. Actually, I don't understand her church--they are so wrapped up in their music (don't get me wrong, I LOVE church music) that people go more to be entertained than to worship.

I can see so many better ways to be stewards of our money. However, I can also see where people are going out of their way to do good if you just look around you. During Hurricane Katrina, our local Fire Department sent an entire crew down to New Orleans to help with the rescue/clean-up. (These guys volunteered for the work, and they brought back pictures. It was scary and amazing what they had to deal with.)

I think Jesus wanted us to work together in smaller communities for the benefit of the Church. I just don't see that happening enough.

But I thought you were talking about the mentality of all members of the churches, not a few individuals?

From experience that is what happens to good intent is we pass it along and wait for someone else to take the wheel and it never get completed.
It’s much better to start a project and plan yourself then ask for back up and support, most people are followers rather than leaders, practice being a leader.

Irish

or as ghandi said "be the differnce you wish to see in the world," IMO no greater suggestion has been written.... this is how i use my life, if i sat around and waited for someone eles it would never get done.. It not me then who????
You don't have to leave your house to the differnce..one can raise a child in non violence and effect the world alot, or just not eat meat the domino effect from that is profound ....walk to wrok instead of drive etc...
a simple smile to everyone you pass is a gift many are waiting for....
we have to stop waiting for the other guy or this or that orginization to change things........

You could be right, Irish, but it's not everyone who believes in leaders

Its not that I don't intend to lead, but that I intend to build. You can build a house with your bare hands, but things go faster when you have contractors and workers. Also, being in the military limits my abilities to a certain amount of energy and time. The pastor is the one who will ask me what I should do and whether or not he has some helpful advice. He's also the one that runs it by the Church and sees their take on it. I'm not going to undermine his position in a Church-directed activity.

Yes, but what is and what should be are two different things. And its not my place to assume that everyone is or isn't doing something; only that if the majority don't help others or the majority of the deeds are never brought out into testimony, we don't send off the signal that we should be.

It all starts off small. I can could I organize a national movement with out first having practiced on a local movement? I'd be taking in more than I can handle. So, my primary concern is with the community of faith in my city, then we'll see where we can go from there.

Fair enough, lad, but just in case you forgot, people can read what we are saying all over the world, don't get paranoid about it though, hehehe

A good leader does not wait or care who’s following they just get the job done. A true leader inspires by action not by thought or consent.

Irish

I don't believe in leaders, Irish, only good people. If I wanted to make some sort of leader out of myself here at U-M or anywhere else I could, but I tell people I'm a drinker, which I am, so they won't take me to serious. I just like to make people think or dare to think

or a true leader empowers all others to be leaders too...

What I meant by that, Blue, is that you, just like us all, have a voice here at U-M. Not one to be misused by any of us, but one we can use to share ideas with each other and even people who never become members themselves. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the idea you came up with in your first post is great, just needs a little innovation in my opinion. The way I see things good people don't want to be leaders, please don't confuse the word organizer with leader, they just try to get it right TOGETHER. And you know it doesn't matter who "they" are, they might Christians from the same church, Christians from various churches, they might be Christians and Muslims, or even all kinds of different people trying to get it right TOGETHER. I don't believe in leaders because I've seen with my own eyes what they do to good people all over the world.

I can't picture Christ speaking well of all who call themselves Christians. Some of them promote anti-Christian behavior in Christ's name. How could He possible speak well of them?

Those who follow Christ with eyes wide open are those He speaks well of, imo.

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

Which then compliments my response to irish about taking it up with my pastor. A leader is a motivator. Organization requires many leaders.

Good luck, my friend

I hear ya. However, it was never intended that we should rule over each other, but work as one. So if we have leaders, these are people who have the time, energy, and devotion to motivate change within the Church.

Perhaps that's why I've been led to found a non-profit dedicated to helping homeless women in Los Angeles? Because leaders are needed? I thought it was because I've grown sick and tired of how the church groups treat the homeless like animals?

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

It seems that you are suggesting that one leading is just objective, while many organizing is relational. A relationship is the means and the end; not a solution to the problem, but a basis of living. I've had one meeting with the pastor and he's been really supportive of this. Before we can innovate this idea into a reality, we have have to deal with the reality we will face when acting upon this idea. What we've come to so far is that it must be relationship centered, or the work runs the risk of being fruitless. What do you think?

I would like to hear more on this. Is this something that you've personally experienced?

I think there is a verse in the bible (i forget the reference) which says something to the effect of if someone asks for money you should give it to them without hope for any gain, even if they are not christians, or specifically if they are not....

dont see any christians or churches following that edict do we

p.s. I am not a christian, so i guess I have no reason to grumble, but i thought i would point it out

Well if you do the best you can in order to make the idea work, and in the way you believe is the best way to do it, then who am I or anyone else to point fingers at you? Na, I really like ya lad, so don't put to much into what I was saying.

See ya around, Blue

ya got it boss. thanks

Yes, I was homeless in Los Angeles for 2 1/2 years.

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

How come? If you don't want to talk about it more, then I understand. Why didn't any Churches help you? Did you ask them for help?

We became disabled at around the same time and were unable to work. General Relief pays $221/mo. with Food Stamps of about $145/mo. All the services are centralized on Skid Row, so that's where we ended up.

Bluefinger, the church groups are definitely present on Skid Row. You ask them for help, and they want you in somebody's "program". If you don't happen to suffer from addiction, they try to convince you that you are, indeed, addicted to something and need to be honest about it. They have their missions, and their employees love to ban folks from their premises for all kinds of reasons. I witnessed a developmentally disabled 80-year-old woman thrown out of the Union Rescue Mission because, "I'm tired of looking at you." They also want every client to profess the mission's version of Christianity; if you don't, you're evil and belong to the devil, so get out. Sorry, I'm not Baptist or Pentecostal, nor do I suffer from an addiction. No room for me. Especially when they figure out you're gay...

There is a real scam going on there, bigger than the mission problems. It is called SRO (Single Room Occupancy). Sounds good on the surface, what with Emergency Section 8, etc. An established couple, whether married or registered domestic partners (we register in California) must rent 2 rooms. Then you're required to attend 14 sobriety meetings a month, whether you need them or not. No, Al-Anon doesn't count. They require written confirmation of attendance at AA, CA, or NA. Meetings of any kind at one's personal church don't count, either. If you want to attend church on Sunday, just get on one of the various busses and vans and go to some no-name church in a part of the city a homeless person may not know.

The hotels downtown also practice something illegal called "28-day shuffle". You can pay rent for 28 days, then you have to leave for various numbers of days. The City Attorney has closed down 2 such places already, and is going after all of them. Legally here, you are a permanent tenant after 2 weeks, and eviction proceedings must involve the courts and not self-help methods (like lock-out boxes on door knobs).

The only alternative to missons and shelters with their bizarre rules is to sleep on the sidewalk and avoid the police patrols (it's illegal to sit, sleep, or lie on any sidewalk or public way in Los Angeles). My partner of 7 years and I did that to stay away from most of the Jesus folks who only want to save your soul with a baloney sandwich.

After our disability hearings with Social Security and back pay checks we were able to rent something monthly.

So we incorporated and now await our tax-exempt declaration from the Internal Revenue Service. If you are interested, here is the link:
http://www.GnosticHomelessServices.org

Much more info on homelessness in Los Angeles in the Los Angeles Times, http://latimes.com Enter Skid Row in the search box, and you'll have 3 pages of more recent info. If I can remember the name of the reporter who did the series I will post it. One of their reporters spent a week on skid row. Even the mayor went down that week. It's nothing but BS.

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

GOOD MORNING

It was Steve Lopez from the LA Times who did the series back in October, 2005. Nothing has changed since then. I have retained many of my Skid Row contacts and visit them periodically. Fewer tent communes can be seen, but San Julian Street between 6th and 7th is still crack heaven. San Julian Street between 5th and 6th is weed heaven. The belligerent alcoholics still drink and fight their way through the days and nights near 5th and Crocker. Like eternal damnation, Skid Row's denizens haunt the same streets as before. Sad but true. And the hospital still dump the indigent in the streets of Skid Row, despite lawsuits from the City Attorney.

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

Nice thought -but did you know the most money ever given to charity was given from atheist men ?

We non-believers also have hearts you know.

Yes, but if you read the first post, this wasn't addressing atheists. In fact, much of the compassion and morality that atheists demonstrate is very likely because of the influence that Churches brought into the world.

The original topic was a message to Churches to return to compassion, love, and trust in God. The things that make us who we are in GOD. What you are in yourself is your business. Churches, however, grow in God. Theres a major difference.

Oops yes I see what you mean.

please continue.....