Question: I have the impression that the social options for young people today are more demanding than they were when I was young (70's-early 80's). What do you think?

I should clarify that I mean being young, female and white. America was much less advanced in terms of treating all racial and spiritual groups equally. Not that things are wonderful now, but there wasn't much of a black middle class, back then. Women were still struggling to be equal as well. Being in a "minority" group meant continuous, grinding struggle against obnoxious stereotypes. But social issues aside [a huge omission, I know]

Back in the late 70's the yuppie thing hadn't happened yet. Being "cool" meant dressing in loose cotton clothes that didn't hug the body and show every tiny imperfection. Hair was long, and loose, parted in the center. Women didn't wear much make-up. There wasn't this big emphasis on six-pack abs, giant boobs, etc. Of course, there were heavy social demands. Like you HAD to be an extreme left winger. Political correctness hadn't hit the social scene yet but it was well on it's way to overwhelming the intellectual community-- and there was no counter movement to back you if you told aggressive socialist types to shove it. No right wing talk radio.

I being a cool young person back then meant that you had to toe the PC political line ABSOLUTELY, IN EVERY RESPECT. That made it tough for people who... er... actually had independent ideas.

But now it seems like there''s this oppressively heavy emphasis on physical appearance. The cloths are tight. The abs are revealed and they better look good. If you have some weird physical aberration, you're supposed to go to the plastic surgeon and correct it. If you're thin and wirey, you're expected to get a boob job.

The other day I was trying on some clothing in a store dressing room. There were two people in the next stall talking about their bodies as if they were talking about the overhaul of a yacht. I saw them when I left the dressing room. They were around twenty, fit and good looking. I thought, "Ye Gods, is there ever a point where they look good enough.

And then there's the compulsion for everyone to be incredibly social. If your cell phone doesn't ring every two minutes (and you aren't text messaging) you aren't popular enough to qualify as "cool".

And there's also this heavy emphasis on "making it" job-wise. Business management wasn't such a popular major.

Yuck.

I'm sure my impressions are mistaken and I'd love to hear other opinions. Is today's popular culture more demanding than the pop cultures of the 70's, or 80's, or 90's? If you feel comfortable about it, include something about your age in the replies (e.g.-"I was in highschool in the mid-80's).

There was a strong alternative culture during the 90's (when I was in highschool). Consider Seattle and the grunge culture. Consider movies like "Slacker" or "La Femme Nikita".

There have always been pressures on every generation of youth, But i will agree that along with the regular stuff kids deal with in todays world there seems to be so much pressure on a really a superficial level, no wonder their all confused and angry! If your not skinny enough or your too skinny or your too fat or your nose is all wrong or your boobs are too small, no wait their too big ,oops their too small! CRAZY STUFF!I,m greatful to be outta my teens and i would never want to go through them again!

I'm glad I'm outta of my teen years also.

I think as people grow older, they tend to mellow out a bit and do not care so much as to what others think of them, it is much more relaxed as you get older.

I would love to be a teen again, but have the disposition I have now lol.

Mind you I will probably say the same thing should I reach an age above 80 "oh I would love to be a forty something, but have the disposition I have now..."

I despise "popular" youth culture.

Popular youth culture is destroying youth

I hate "popular" youth culture also. I was a reject in high school. When everybody was into pop & hip-hop, I was into video game music(still am).

In my graphic design class in Senior year, there was a project where everybody made their own magazine cover design. Everybody made covers of cars, celebrities, sports and music. Mine was different. I made my own cover of a paranormal magazine using pics from online. I ended up weirding my teacher, he actually said "Interesting choice."

Even my favorite cartoon characters at the time were different and unusual than everybodys. While everybody was into Spongebob & Tinkerbell, my favorite characters were Shendu and Tso Lan the Moon Demon from "Jackie Chan Adventures", Scarab from "The Mummy", & Crysta & Pips from "Ferngully".

I was probably the only one in my high school that was into the paranormal. There were a couple others. But I was the only one that knew things like Lumeria, moon anomalies, and the Eltanin Antenna.


I'm still a reject now, always have & always will.

Embracing these ideals is a choice and I have no sympathy for those who suffer consequences due to entertaining their own vanity.

I cringe thinking of my daughter approaching the teen years. There are such high expectations put on the kids nowadays. They don't even have a childhood anymore. My daughter just turned 8 and before her b-day, a boy in her class asked her if she wanted to have S-E-X! Like they should even know what it is! BOY, did we have a BIG talk that night!

I know it,s so sad that they are missing out on all the fun kid stuff! And many kids think there is something wrong with them if they havn,t done"IT" by the time their 12! And you really have to talk to them at such a young age now,but it,s good your daughter and you do talk, there are so many kids that don,t have that! I guess for some parents they think if they ignore it noyhing will happen, too bad for the kids it doesn,t work that way!

Well, not being arond popculture (or possibly not born) in the 70's,80's or 90's, I can't really comment on them.

But from my experiences with Popculture today, it really isn't that hard. Actually, I think that it has changed just in the last three years or so.

Before then, there was alot of pressure to fit in exactly. But now, with the rise of bands such as Fallout Boy and Panic! ATD, I feel that there is alot more freedom in terms of what is acceptable.
Just look at the rise of the "emo" subculture. Sure, this may be considered a weaker form of a punk or goth momevent, but the fact is that it is making large ammounts of kids change from being rather straighedge, to being ... different. Infact, as far as I can see, the entire movement is about trying to be different from everyone else.

Now, my school is a rather left wing one, and the number of alternative kids here would be almost on par with the ammount of people who conform to groups such as "freshies" or "gangsta's". However, I don't think that this number is unusual. Times are changing, and I find that people have alot more personal freedom. If you dress differently, so long as you subscribe to things such as clean clothes and personal hygiene, the most people will think is "Oh look at them, they are being individual!

Which I think is really my point. People are moving towards a much more individual based fashion sense, rather than conforming to a set of standards.

But this may be completley wrong, this is just what I am observing in my area. I'm one of those "alternative" types, and rather proud of it. So long as people don't call me emo (or other such rude words), I don't particularly mind what I am called.

I know, we all the time, I refuse to let her be left floundering in her peer's attitudes and ideas. I played with Barbie's until I was 11, now they have outgrown them by the time they are 8. They want to wear makeup and sleazy clothes to school and they get mad when the mom's say "no". That is why my daughter doesn't watch music videos unless I have seen them first. The regard for women in them is non-existent and they all look like total tramps. With these images being thrown in their faces, I really wonder what image the male children will grow up with when considering the females in their life? We need some self respect and respect for others to be reintroduced so that society doesn't totally disintegrate.

Ah, yes, those days of youth!
In my high school, no long hair, no jeans (slacks only), no pants for the gals (skirts only, except during really cold spells, then the gals could wear pants under skirts until they got to school, then change). All very contained. Until we got out of school, then everyone went their own ways. Always there was a different point of view.
Then came the '60s. What a beautiful revolution in thought and action! We paved the way for what followed. (Unfortunately, I missed a lot because of Vietnam.)
But my generation dealt with all that strange stuff, peer pressures etc; every generation does. I suspect that reality is a little less real now than previously, such as looking at movies with ninjas flying and so forth. It seems that many younger people take this crap seriously when they shouldn't, but then, what the heck.
And regarding sex, in the late '50s and early '60s, there was a lot of that going around, it was just kept quiet. We young ones (then) kept it out of the public eye, and I'm sure the parents would have been scandalized had they really known all that was going on. Brother was drunk a lot, but parents never knew it (or certainly didn't say, he was the apple of their eyes).
Seems now this type of thing is more overt.
I don't much care for the music, but my parents said the same about us (remember Ed Sullivan wouldn't show Elvis' bottom half on TV). It can be said that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Boils down to young folks rebellion against their elders' ways, and (really) there's nothing wrong with that: it's a growing experience. To quote an old song: "You can't even run your own life, I'll be damned if you'll run mine." I agree.
If there's one thing that bugs me (old phraseology, I know) it's this thing about being skinny. Most of these women don't appear to be healthy to me: they need more meat on their bones. I guess I don't much care for women who walk on toothpicks and have nothing topside, no waist, no hips. Sorry. That's just a lecherous old man speaking.

Video game music? Me too. I also love film scores and stuff like that. What kind of video games?

Cool. I'd love to see it.

Spongebob... that the basis for modern anti-intellectualism...

Sounds very interesting... maybe I'll Wiki it.

If I ever had an incident like that. I'm so talking to their parents!

When I was in high school. Everyone was into things I wasn't. Normal high school stuff. I barely did anything (plus my mom wouldn't allow it) they did normally did.

Edit: Half of them where (probably still are) into rap. I wasn't. I don't like rap. >.< I prefer the music that doesn't involve rap.

Let me see if I can remember even though it's been 4 years since graduating high school. Music from the Mega Man games & the Donkey Kong Country trilogy, and Silent Hill(although I didn't discover SH till a few months after). Oh yeah I almost forgot, I also liked wrestling themes (and still do).

Unfortunaly, I lost the disk that had the cover design. Sorry.

I know... Other characters I liked back then were also from the "Mummy" the Rasasha Tiger Man that could shape-shift & Talon from "Static Shock"

You mention it to the parents and they say, "Oh, no, not my baby, your daughter must be lying." Now, I am not totally out to lunch and naive when it comes to my daughter, sure there is always the possibility that she is lying. But, when the little boy has been in trouble numerous times, I kinda believe he is capable of saying stuff like that.

Little boys in earlier era's thought of sex before the age of 8....trust me on that....

Late 70's kid here....what bothers me about today's youth is there's no sense of rebellion. They've BOUGHT into commercialism soooooooooo badly....They ARE becoming the little stepford children that Madison Avenue wants them to be. And who's fault is that?

Oh. I'm into Orchestral game music. And some Classical as well. Classical and Metal. Where as many of my class mates listen to Rap...

How long ago where you in high school, anyway? If you don't mind me asking...

I graduated 4 years ago, Class of 2003.


Oh yeah, most of my classmates were into Rap. I hate rap. I'm into Alternative Rock. My favorite bands are Boy Hits Car & Dead Can Dance.

Heh, I've never heard of them.

Ehhh either your really out of touch with youth, that's an extreme exaduration or kids where your from are crazy. As someone who is probably amount those closer to the said age group of people who post on this board I can say that those whoa re involved in sexual acts at this age would be a minority.

Okay.

Walter Sullivan: I like alternative music too.

My friend Katy is into rap. And probably still is.

I never went with the flow of the high school. I had my own flow.

Also back then everybody in my high school was into Spiderman or Batman. I like Batman. But my fav hero was Zatanna. I always loved Zatanna. 2 others I also like are the Huntress & Black Canary.

We DO SO Rebel!!!


(...or at least we try to)

Well said "Mule". That commercialism thing. Every item of clothing has to have a "name" on it. Shoes have to be the correct brand. Even girls handbags have to be branded!
The kids have been brainwashed by advertising,media & their own peers.

We were fashion slaves too. Bluejeans HAD to be a certain shade of blue. And they HAD to be Levis or Wranglers. The length was critical- if it was more than half an inch off you had a fashion disaster on your hands.

A major came with the introduction of "designer" jeans, which cost upwards of a hundred dollars a pair because some fashion guru had ripped them in exactly the right place. These were a brag that the wearer's family was rich enough to spend $100+ on ripped clothing. It wasn't just fashion awareness anymore. It was money, money, money.

Maybe back in the 70's the fashion world didn't realize how deeply they could dig into the teenage pocket (or, more accurately, the pockets of the teenager's parents). They're certainly aware of it now.

All three are what my sons like. I suppose the three mix well together. I have learned to enjoy some also.


One Winged Angel

One Winged Angel, Rock-ish Orchestra version (live)
I approve!
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Anyway, I can't comment on popular youth culture, as I haven't gone to school since the 4th grade.

Cool, thank you both.

I also like film scores, and this kind of reminded me of one of John Williams' songs for Spielberg's War of the Worlds.

okay, first off let me asy a bit in general. im a teenager. i live in an small-town-and-country area. youth culture here is fairly laid back, and not at all extreme. the girls here are not all super-skinny (buth then, we ARE the most obese state in the nation) and, since its people here are primarily roman-catholic, the girls are very (dare i say annoyingly) chaste. when the hurricanes rita and katrina hit new orleans, however, we had a tremendous influx of people - and for about a year and a half, there were quite a few teenagers around here that were into 'extreme' emo, gothic and gangster-rapper culture. theyve sort of mellowed out, it seems (or else moved away) because they arent turning heads anymore. but it made me think about how different things are in the big cities like new orleans, as compared to small towns.

second, this:

i never exactly fit in myself (a banjo playing teenager, right?) but this has always been my thoughts on the 'alternative' groups like goths, emos and punks:
they may be fiercly individualistic in comparison to, say, preppies, but are they really very individualistic when theyre conforming so tightly to other goths, emos and punks? most of the time, no. these groups are possessed by the herd instinct just as much as preppies: instead of flip-flops, torn jeans and baseball caps, its black jeans, studded belts or pentacle jewlery. do you ever see a goth in company with a group of hippies? no, of course not - you usually see groups of people that are clearly goths, or punks, or emos. you recognize them as such because they all have a distinctive look - and very often, the boy punks all look alike and the girl punks all look alike. they form mindless herds just as badly as the preppies, whose example they hate so much. they all try so comically to be 'different' from everybody else, but end up all being the same. so I've found that punks, goths and emos are, mostly, individualistic only as a group; individually, they arent very individualistic at all.