In the Bible Christ said "ask and it shall be given to you", "ask anything in my name and I will do it", there are a few other verses where he said the same thing. How do you take this statement? Do you take it literally. Does this mean anything? Please I would like to know what this means to you.

To me this means that I ask and I shall receive the best answer or result, not necessarily the result I intended or wanted. I see the surface meaning (ask to receive) and a deeper, mysterious meaning (be careful what you ask for, because the answer may not be what you wanted).

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

One also has to remember the context of the passage. For example, where Jesus says "Ask and it shall be given to you" (Matthew 7), the very next verse contextualises this by saying "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?" (Matt 7:9-10). And then immediately following that, it reads "f you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!" (Matt 7:11). The earthly examples that Jesus gives in 9-10 are speaking of necessities of life - food - given by a parent. Which parent would turn away their child if they ask for necessities. There is no mention of asking for extravagant items, only necessities. Then verse 11 brings this into a spiritual context - the necessities of eternal life, for all who ask, seek, and knock. Verse 12, which I didn't quote, then is a command to do to others what you would have them do to you.

I wrote a post for UM a while back which discussed in detail every passage from Jesus that seems to indicate him saying "ask for anything and you shall receive". I can find this post for you if you want me to...... but in short, i came to the conclusion that they were all out of context.

~ Regards, PA

No doubt. BUT, what people forget is that there are tests attached to these desires. How badly do we really want our desires, and how much are we really willing to pay to get them???

Blauvelt,

This statemen by Christ I do take seriously. But there are perameters, If I ask Christ for a ferrari, he'll laugh at me, If i ask him for strength and protection then he'll grant me it. I have asked for things I in the name of Christ that I have received, and it has amazed and it's the power of that that actually made a believer.

God knows our everyneed. He tells us he'll supply our every need, .He tells us to cast our cares upon him.. IMO Its not our wants but more our needs, which isnt always "material needs" but other times it is.If you ask in Faith beleiveing what you ask for he is just to supply it.. if its something "selfish, self centered" then IMO you might not get what your asking for.

Those words are to be taken literally by all Christians, but no man - (or woman) -, yes, or woman, is an island. No one should reject a plea for help with reference to those words or reject help from others because of them. You just keep knocking until people get so fed up with ya that they give you what you need.

There's not much point in asking then is there?



fullywired

How about amputees

It's not like we are revealing some hidden truth here. The funny thing about amputees is that this evidence is obvious to everyone. We have all seen that God ignores the prayers of amputees. This evidence has been plainly visible for centuries.

Amputees are not the only ones either. For example:

If someone severs their spinal cord in an accident, that person is paralyzed for life. No amount of prayer is going to help.

If someone is born with a congenital defect like a cleft palate, God will not repair it through prayer. Surgery is the only option.

A genetic disease like Down Syndrome is the same way -- no amount of prayer is going to fix the problem.

Or what about this. What if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways. Will anything happen? Of course not. If prayers like this worked, Christians would have prayed every disease on the planet into extinction centuries ago. But if God were to exist, why would he ignore such a worthy prayer?

It is also easy to find corroborating evidence outside the medical arena. At the global level, we see the evidence every day in many different ways. For example, we all see the millions of children who die every year from the tragic effects of poverty. Unicef puts it this way:

Every year, more than 10 million children die totally preventable deaths. Some are directly caused by illness – pneumonia, diarrhoea, measles – and others are affected by indirect causes such as conflict and HIV/AIDS. Malnutrition, lack of safe water and inadequate sanitation are contributing factors to more than half of these deaths.

Jesus is supposed to love all the little children of the world: "Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight." So we can ask this straightforward question: If children are precious to Jesus, then why is he killing 10 million of them every year with abject poverty? That's 27,000 dead kids every day -- more than 1,000 dead children each hour. If Jesus answers prayers as he promises in the Bible, then why haven't the prayers of billions of people to end world hunger caused Jesus to solve the problem of global poverty?

27,000 children die every day for preventable reasons like malnutrition and unsafe drinking water. If Jesus answers prayers as he promises in the Bible, then why haven't the prayers of billions of people to end world hunger caused Jesus to solve the problem of global poverty?
We all know that holes like these exist. It is easy to find them. The holes suggest that something very odd is going on.

If someone asks for something from the very depth of their soul and it is something that is NEEDED rather than DESIRED, I believe that it is granted.

I have to admit that when it comes to me asking for enlightenment regarding something, it has always been granted to me, it has been a blessing without fail.

Asking for something can also be a curse, I once asked this: "give me as much as I can take, to the very edge" - advice to anyone thinking of doing this, DON'T, it very nearly killed me off - weirdly, I was taken to the very edge. Ironically, a friend did the same thing, a few years before I had (I didn't know this at the time mind), but it damn near broke their back.

Ask for something physical or material, it is debateable whether it will be forthcoming, but as asking to for something Spiritual, indeed, be careful what you ask for, as you just may get it.

Yeah so all the african people and there are ALOT are not asking with the depths of their soul ? Seems like your god is a racist !

Even a faithful preacher who is praying for his daughter who has leukemia ?

Well aint you "special" ????!!!

Momentary I didn't mean to offend, I was NOT belittling anyone that has suffered or is suffering in this world and there are a lot of them. I was merely giving my own experiences!

I am NOT special and no different from anyone else, if you feel that strongly about it all why don't you get out there and try to do something about it.

Id call that doubt If you want to sit there and complain then your doubting god... I have seen people cured Through Pray. Iv seen people with cancer cured Ive seen People with Tumors Cured Iv seen people healed from bellspalsy(sp?) I know god is faithful to answer Iv seen it.. For amputees, It may not be answered the Way You want it to be answered but prayers do get answered. I wouldn't exactly call what you typed a "heart felt pray" . Its all in your faith and believing and still Loving God until its answered. severing and loving God shouldn't be based upon Your circumstances.

Ill second that.. It would really make a differance in your life.

Sorry Lotus nothing against you at all,personally
First of all I am not god making promises and secondly I am not the one making this claim of prayer.
I answer my own prayers through ACTION.

I do what i can (my main concern is the enviroment and another orginisation I am active in -which i will not mention on this site)

Like I said : Two hardworking hands can accomplish more than one thousand clasped in prayer.(I don't dislike prayer at all and I believe it does help in some way- but i prefer action to sitting in church) Yes alot of churches are active -of course and it's GREAT.

But god does not answer prayers the way the bible claims. You have to be a moron (sorry) otherwise not to not see the truth of it. It really rubs me the wrong way. Obviously.


I have nothing against prayer it's this bible verses that irk me and the people spouting them off as truth.

lol s'okay.

I don't go to church myself, all the things I said, were things that have happened to me in normal life.

You are correct re action, action does speak louder than words that's for sure. I, too, get irked regarding people just spouting off without actually ever doing anything.

All the things you said in your other posting re Africa and diseases, I fully understand what you are on about, by the way.

Take care

every one has their own road to walk, for what ever the reason...all prayers are answered, whether we can see it or agree with it is another issue...i know from personal experience that prayers are answered...i have also asked for things i did not get and in some cases i later learned that i was better off that the prayer did not get answered in the way i wanted...but if you don't ask then you may very well miss the opportunity you are wanting...just like being a parent, you do not give your kids everything they ask for either, and you have good reasons too...so does God.

randomhit10

So amputees are a bit to hard for god to cure ? it seems that prayer can only cure things ,that we can't check on


fullywired

If that is what you care to believe. for many beleive there is "nothing impossible " with God.

To hell with circumstances. I create opportunities.
~Bruce Lee

There is no belief needed on our part. The facts of life are all around us and plain to see.

Show me the amputees.

You are making the claims without evidence.

There are plenty of non-believers who's cancer has gone into remission and tumors disappeared also.

I believe in the power of our minds. Even without a god.


Even if you take a liberal rather than literal stance on the Bible, this feels strange, doesn't it?

You may not literally believe that "nothing will be impossible for you" nor that "faith can move mountains," but I think we can agree that there is something very odd about the way that God treats amputees.

No matter how many people pray. No matter how sincere those people are. No matter how much they believe. No matter how devout and deserving the recipient. Nothing happens when we pray for amputated limbs. God never regenerates lost limbs through prayer, even though Christians believe that God is answering millions of other prayers on earth every day.

Here is a good explanation to why God doesn't heal amputees

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI



fullywired

See the same as me and I'll be your friend? I've heard it all before, FW

without belief nothing will happen, the power of the human mind is limited it can only go so far before it self destructs.

Im not talking going in to remission...Im talking bout Being Gone out of the body. When the doc went to open them up to do the surgery it was not there..You can beleive however you choose. But I know the Power that is in Pray.

Some things just arent worth debating. To me this is one. Your Pov is different from My Pov and thats fine. There is no limit on God. No man is different or better including amputes.

maybe the prayers came too late...i believe that God expects some actions on our part sometimes...maybe the loss of a part saved the rest of the life...we all have our road to walk...no one knows all the whys...so you are really asking questions that will probably never be answered to your satisfaction...and yes, i too believe that your mind needs to be right...Jesus even says that too...you are what you believe you are and you can not be healed and fight it mentally...praying helps you get your mind right...if you have another method you prefer then use it...i am not trying to force my belief on you...

randomhit10

What actions would you suggest to an amputee to be able to get his mind right and have his or her's limb returned .Do you personally know of any amputees who has ever had their limbs returned??


fullywired

Sense when does God not restore amputees?

Mathew 12:10: "And, behold, there was a man that had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him."

Now a withered hand indicates that it was deformed, decayed, shriveled up, shrunken, ect... It isn't a limb that has been hacked off but I think most would agree that it is in the same category and/or the same thing.......What's an amputated limb other than a deformed one? The only difference is that in the amputee case the limb has been removed from the body for health purposes and in this particular case the deformed limb was just left on the body.

Now what does Jesus do?

Mathew 12:13 "Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other."

The Pharisees wanted to accuse Jesus for healing on the Sabbath. You people here want to accuse him for not healing amputees. But Jesus HAS and DOES.

Let me tell you something, there's nothing wrong with God. There's nothing he can't do. The fault lies with us or the people who are asking for the restoration of an amputated limb.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the Church is divided lately. We as Christian as a whole can't even come to agree on many basic issues involving living a Christian life, proper worship, and some scriptual interpretations. The body of Christ was never meant to be divided! But yet we are. We have Catholics worshiping God in their way, conducting their affairs in their way; we have Baptists and Methodists doing things their way, we have Messianic Jews (that are Christians) doing things their way, we have splinter Christian factions that differ greatly from the rest of Christianity such as the Jehova's witnesses and the Mormons. We as Christians are in dissarry.

The fact is, there are no versions of the truth. There is only the Truth, not all of these Christian denomonations are right, logically they can't be, if there are two choices and two people each take a different choice only one is right, one must be wrong. And so we have this disfunctional Christian Church. We are supposed to be of One Spirit, but most of us don't even communicate with one another.

The fault lies with the people who are praying, you can never waver in prayer, and you have to all be on the same page. And lastly lets not forget that some people may have lost limbs for a specific purpose and if God had them lose a limb to fullfill his will for a specific purpose then they're going to stay that way to do his will. God might want that person to have a limb blown off so that another soldier that hears the story is more prepared in the field and when a mine goes off he doesn't lose his limb. Or maybe God's done it because that person sinned. There's a part in the bible when Jesus and his disciples are talking about a person (I believe a blind man) and the disciples ask why he's blind, because his parents sinned? or because he sinned? Jesus says that it wasn't because either sinned but so that the works of God could be manifested in him. What this means is, sometimes people do get sick or hurt because they've sinned, which might be why some amputees aren't healed. There's a reason for everything you can trust on that.

There's a certain way to do everything, when the disciples first were sent forth there was one person that had a spirit in him that they couldn't help, Jesus told them that it could only be removed through (fasting and prayer I think, couldn't find the verse). The point is, there's a right and wrong way, and if something isn't working there's a reason. Not to mention that the amputee will need to believe just the like people praying for him do for it to work, only rarely did Jesus heal those that weren't come to him believing he could heal them or that he didn't ask if they believed before he healed them and that was when he revived the dead and when he helped people who were seriously ill and weren't really coherent.

Assuming we accept that Jesus restored a withered hand .When was the next time some one was restored by prayer, since that day



fullywired

no, i don't know any....how many do you know that God came down and took Himself?....do you not believe that many of our actions cause our own delimmas?....my lungs are damaged, not by God, but by my own actions...God gave me all the information to protect myself but i ignored it...so my problem is my fault not God's...my lungs will not be returned to perfect because of my disobedience...i am not saying this is the case everytime but then again we all have a certain road to walk...limbs do not get returned but it does not mean that God is wrong or being mean, uncaring, etc...it mean that some of us will walk that road, maybe for the benefit of others...this may be your test.....so instead of holding on to these questions that you know there is no answer that we can give to your satisfaction, so you can hold it over some believers head, spend this time helping the amputees deal with their problems...save these questions for the time you stand before God...i am sure He will telll you what you want to know.

randomhit10

why does Jesus have to repeat everytime He does something through out time? if you want to believe then one mention should be enough for you...but this does remind me of Moses talking to the rich man....

"if they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be pursuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16 : 31

if you want to believe then you will, if you don't want to then nothing will matter.

randomhit10

"
Why do you never answer the question ? ".When was the next time some one was restored by prayer, since that day"


fullywired

Anything you ask in accordance with God's will shall be done for you. But you have to ask. That's the meaning of the many Bible passages that touch on this concept.

It is a mistake to think that you have to believe that this promise will be fulfilled. You don't have to believe it. You just have to ask. I know this from experience.

It is also a mistake to think you have to want it bad enough or be willing to pay a high enough price or anything like that. The scripture is very clear on this. We are talking about "gifts." They are had for the asking by grace alone.

But again, if you want God's gifts, you do have to ask. That is free will in action.

Does this mean if you pray for a BMW, it will appear in your driveway? I don't know. Probably not. I think the crucial phrase is, "in accordance with His will." The "will of God" as I understand it is not concerned with owning a flashy car. But I'm not God, so as far as I know, you might get the BMW.

What about the starving and the amputees and so on? Those are not cases of God withholding His gifts. Those are cases of human beings inflicting suffering on others. Again, we have free will. Praying to God is by no means guaranteed to change a murderer into a nice person. Ultimately, it is up to the person.

Prayers for deliverance from evil, however, are ultimately granted, although not always in ways that are apparent to those of shallow understanding. Of that, I feel sure. That's because prayer may not transform someone else, but it will definitely transform oneself, and that is the key to deliverance. This understanding will elude anyone who is too preoccupied with superficial arguments full of bitterness about the injustices that occur on Earth.

What about people who are born miserable or who have a lot of natural bad luck? Again, I'm not God. I don't have any idea what He has in mind. It could very well be the case that persons who suffer seemingly random misfortune have set for themselves certain tasks and lessons for this life. I don't know.

But here is a deeper teaching: God doesn't do anything to us that He doesn't do to Himself. That's important. It's another lesson that will fail to impress anyone whose main interest is in being bitter and winning arguments, but I put it out there.

That is how I understand those scriptures. I wouldn't hold any manmade text up as absolute dogma, and the Bible is, after all, manmade. But to me, these are profoundly resonant teachings, and I'm an avowed non-Christian.

Maybe it is spiritual things that we ask for are granted rather than physical things.

Some people believe that material gain is but a bonus due to one's sincere spiritual efforts. Some even claim that a general comfort in one's living situation is a good sign of a "right" path. A mystic once told me, "People just don't ask enough..."

Besides, we can't take all these goodies with us anyway; therefore, granting material wishes are but a trifle, in the scheme of things. Everything goes back to God, even accolades, in the long run. "In a hundred years..."

"...money can't buy me love." -- THE BEATLES

The only point of asking is to predispose the one asking to make change necessary to achieve what one desires. Teaches humility, if that is of value to the one asking.

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

probably the same day...and the next, and the next...

randomhit10

Who was it ?.did their limbs suddenly appear or grow gradually ?


fullywired

Yes, I think that's mostly right. dlv also has a point though. The spiritual gifts make me able to do things like earn a living. I find that if I'm alienated from God, my material circumstances tend to deteriorate. But that's not the case with everyone. Some suffer mainly from greed, so that their alienation might take the form of excessive materialism. Such people might be wealthy and successful while being spiritually barren. Some might feel spiritually enriched by a life of material hardship or minimalism. And no matter how spiritual we are, we always have to remember Job. So I think the point is that material circumstances are no direct indicator of spiritual ones, and the spiritual ones come first. They are the primary or essential "gifts" referred to in the "ask" passages.

These verses IMO mean you have to ask for things that coincide with Gods Will. He has a purpose for us all.

Maybe through the suffering of poverty, one will learn to be grateful for what little they do get when they pray for it. Maybe by others witnessing this one in poverty they will be more grateful for the abundance they have in comparison and be more likely to share. Maybe by losing a limb ones life was saved and that person learns to adapt and over come a very difficult thing and can then apply the lesson learned to their every day lives. Maybe that person can then in turn help others in the same bost, so to speak.
Maybe God wants others to see that person and the hardships they are facing as a result of losing a limb and be grateful that they are not walking in their shoes, but at the same time be amazed at the strength and the ability of that person to to go through what they are going through.

I do believe that God answers ALL prayers, I just think that sometimes the answer is " No". Or possibly " not yet". And that those who do pray need to keep in mind that the answer may not be what they were expecting.

There is also a verse in the bible that says" God helps those who help themselves" So IMO that means that if someone is sitting around waiting for something to magically happen, it won't. That person has to take an active role to make their situation better. And somethings just don't happen. If you lose a child or loved one no matter how hard you pray they will not come back. Instead one may find that the loss gets easier to deal with day by day if they instead ask for strength and understanding regarding the loss.

I agree. And accountability, insight, compassion, and sacrifice will be the byproducts. Therefore, mere trinkets are never the issue when it comes to asking. And it's always too late to go back once the machinery is in motion. Then again, asking is like an accident waiting to happen; everyone will go through it, no matter what, regardless of one's belief system, religion, predisposition, holy-hood, etc., even if you think you're the 'goddess' Barbra Streisand. Do you know that if you're under her control, you cannot look her in the eyes? Just a thought.


"Can't get out, no one ever has." -- THE PEOPLE UNDER THE STAIRS (film)

tell me how you know he didn't...just because you don't see doesn't mean it has never happened...it just means you have not seen it...i have seen useless limbs work again...i have not ever seen regeneration but it does not mean it never happened...i have not seen the sun come up over China but i bet it does...God has created a world of miracles and miracles happen every day...

randomhit10

Ah, but you're looking at it as a 'believer' would. Regardless, everything we do and say (and ask) have consequences attached to them. In the end, nothing comes for free, and there are no "free" gifts because you will deserve every inch, ounce, crumb. Even the rays of the sun have their toll on the human flesh. And God only knows what the air we breath could do to us, in the long, and it doesn't take a rocket science to figure this out.

In a way, it's similar to marrying into a rich family. One will work one's azz off to deserve one's newly found status, no doubt about that, in all levels. Even Jesus Christ had to work..., and he worked it well!

this is exactly why God does not heal in the way we think He should...we do something, reap the consequences, then pray that God would save us from our actions...more than likely, we were warned but we did it anyway...so who is the blame?

randomhit10

If you believe in a perfect God, then there is no one to blame. There are no accidents in this perfect machinery we call Earth. We live, and it is only inevitable that we will learn, at all cost, no matter what. Therefore, nothing is ever wasted. One thing leads to another. And as a human being, we could never see the "whole picture." "One step at a time," so people say. Part of the many reasons why we suffer is the fact that it is hard for us to accept things as they are. I, myself, am guilty of that. BUT, "that's okay." It's meant to be for me to grow ... up.

"The only way is up, baby." -- Yazz

HAA so we are talking about speculation then .I thought you had proof ,how foolish of me


fullywired

In a way: In order for one to appreciate the miraculous, one must acknowledge the mechanisms of the wonders of our material world. And this includes knowing how to surrender to the 'flow,' the energy inside all of us, Kundalini.

And someday soon, but hopefully not in my lifetime, advance nanotech will totally blow our minds. The future is here now...


I close my eyes, only for a moment, and the moment's gone -- KANSAS

i have the same proof that you use...yes, how foolish of you...

randomhit10

What proof is that ??I await agog


fullywired

Comfort has nothing to do with hording money to get wealth. Hording is a sign of a disturbed person. Therefore to some degree, I agree that "material circumstances are no direct indicator of spiritual ones, but again, "material gain is but a bonus...," and it is never the end thing. The thing about money: one could only buy so much stuff, so much clothes, blah, blah, and then you get totally bored, especially if you have no creative talent -- what then??? So, having lots of money and being devoid of spirituality may, in fact, lead one to spirituality especially in this day and age. Doing spirituality is a trend among the comfortable. One could never ignore it if one goes to high-powered, cultured parties. And with material comfort, one could focus deeper on the spiritual side of life. Unfortunately, some people get sidetracked, but then again, I'm sure it's meant to be for one to really appreciate one's spirituality. One could never compare anything if one has not experienced things, including the darker side of life.

See you all Sunday night, it's party time!