So, you've actually studied the Bible then?

Really, if you look close enough, you can find contradictions and nonsense in just about any religious text.

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son doubt is a form of thought too..rene descartes prposed a system of doubt to clear away any sort of context that could be called into question.... the bible is not a proof it is based in revelation which is notoriously unreliable ....if you have an understanding of the tools of thinking ...studying the bible would be irrelevant or a stance son..IMO...god cannot be proved so you are working off assumption and this falls under naive reasioning....

Yes I have. I think that the bible is a hateful book it reminds me of Mien Kampf

Here hear sista! I cant take claim to knowing that book however... I've never read it outside of some pages here and there.
There is a beautiful mind in there ....
And a hole lot of 'stuff' that doesnt sound the same to my eyes when I read it.
I heard it was authored by four.
Dunno for sure.

I have compared those few pages to other books - was wondering if any of you have done the same? And what you think of those differences in story?

I would agree, but add to your wise comment, IMO, we cant find god or science in a complete form ccuz we're only looking for OR and not AND.
This is the part that I think we can all better from 'getting over'.
What's wrong with more then one 'god'? Is 'god' a 'name' in a 'book' or is 'god' your God?
It's strange the mindset sometimes.

'We' as 'us' want to be 'known for' 'appreciated for' 'look at more then for' our name or body.
Yet we look for all these to be concrete in a single story about a single 'person/thing' we all want to call a 'god' or a 'science'.
And only one of each.

But we have one name and many 'us' in there.
The only other thing I would add to your post is that all thinking in it's current form is incomplete - is that naive? I wouldn't say so. Just incomplete as we view it. It must be from sound logic alone. Nothing more needed to be proven other then all the discussions and arguments that we can see everywhere...and wars. And need.

If you read a poem...you can view it any way you want, take from it what you feel it means and run with it

same from the bible...view it any way, run with it

Yep, if he did it before-he can do it again. Why does he not ?
Come on let's hear some LAME excuses !

Taken out of context just kidding lol

Yahweh was a tribal god of the Hebrews only! Every nation had their own tribal god and since history is written by the winners, Yahweh was passed down to us as the creator god. He is not. Any god that commands one savage nation to butcher another nation, enslave people, steal from others and last but surely not least, rape innocent women and children is not a god but a devil.

The bible is clear that the most high god had sons and Yahweh was nothing more than one of those monsters. This is a list of some of the biblical tribal gods. Notice Yahweh is on an equal footing with the others. Chemosh, Dagon, Baal,Yahwe, Milcom, Hadad, Qos,Moab,Philistia ,
Ammon, Aram,Edom. This is just a partial list as there were actually 70 of them.

Why do you think Yahweh constantly warned about serving or whoring after the other gods if they weren't thought of as real deities? Yahweh refers to them by name in many verses.

The OT is one of the most blood soaked and filthiest works ever penned by man.

Here a just a few of the insane orders from your loving god. Do NOT even try to justify rape. There is NO justification anytime for any reason for the act of rape especially on a child!!!! I started keeping this list months ago and it grows by the week. I am giving you the short version for your reading pleasure.

The OT god was nothing more than a ‘tribal’ god concocted by evil men to control a very ignorant and superstitious group of savages in order to gain land, possessions and women. The leaders and their so-called priests never had to work or do battle. Yahweh always had the leaders command the simple underlings to do all the dirty work. Not much has changed. Anyone who can read the following verses and still call Yahweh a holy ‘god’ needs to have their head examined. Yahweh was the Hebrew version of Pol Pot or Hitler.

(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the women children who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins. The KJV clearly reads they are to keep the women children for themselves and it would take a fool not to understand what that means. Women children could be as young as 2 or 3!!! It gives no restriction of age! Try to visualize what these towns looked like after these gruesome barbaric attacks. Read on, it only gets worse.


(Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

I can’t begin to imagine how it would feel to watch all those you love being butchered before your eyes and then being taken as a sex slave by the thugs who did it! This is nothing more than forcible RAPE of the most disgusting kind. What this clearly is saying if one of the ‘chosen’ sees an attractive female he lusts after, he may take her and rape her repeatedly until he grows tired of her. This is NO marriage!


Judges 5:30 NAB)

They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.

Do you find it strange that they kill everyone except those they want to rape? God commands these killing claiming the people are evil. What could be more evil than rape? Why would a god want his precious holy people having sex with ‘evil’ women? Just like a flock of buzzards, they are picking over the spoils. That is the bottom line anyway. This entire group was too lazy to work, so they took by violence from those who did work and build. They were nothing but a band of robbers, liars and butchers. They were a more brutal version of the Benny Hinns and John Hagees of this day who use the name of the same god to mass fortunes and deceive millions.

We are at war in Iraq. How would we feel if our armies were doing such things? There are laws against this and any who commit such crimes would be tried in a court of law for war crimes and crimes against humanity.


When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

This book was written by evil men and used the name of a god they created as an excuse to do as they wished. Women are not treated as well as cattle. They can be taken by force or sold and it is up to them to PLEASE the monster who is raping them.

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

Stealing, killing and raping of women!!!!


Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery? THINK ABOUT IT!


(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker?

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.


The victim is being blamed. Perhaps the thug was holding a knife to her throat, holding his hand over her mouth or threatening to kill her or her loved ones is she screams.
It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".


There is no way to clean this up and make it anything other than what it is. It is pure filth. These are tales of kidnapping, rape, theft, murder and enslavement ordered by a god, we are told. These are crimes against human beings and innocent animals. This is NOT the Creator of this world. This god is the invention of the sick minds of very evil greedy barbaric men. All through history man has done violence to his fellowman and justified in the name of his gods. It still goes on today as it did back then. Why can’t people see this for what it is?!

I HAD ONE IDIOT TELL ME IT WAS GODS MERCY THAT THE WOMEN AND LITTLE GIRLS WERE ONLY RAPED AND NOT KILLED. WELL, I WOULD RATHER BE DEAD. SHE ALSO SAID IT WAS DONE WITH THE INTENTION OF BRINGING THEM INTO THEIR HOMES TO TEACH THEM ABOUT YAHWEH!!!! I WANTED TO SLAP HER SILLY. I AM SURE THOSE WOMEN AND LITTLE GIRLS HAD SEEN ENOUGH OF THEM AND THEIR GOD.

History is indeed written by the winners!!!!!!

Hi becks , I know the father of this world, and He is nothing like that, Maybe one of his sons was or a writer was like that , to get Land Or women But The God I love never said those things, Or he would not be God.

Love Omnaka

Then why would you pay any attention to a book as obviouslt false as the bible.

I read alot Of books, I do not say the whole bible is true , because I know it's not, it has been tampered with to suit those in power at the time they needed to tamper..

I love , or worship in spirit , not from a book, but I do sometimes use words from that book to make a point.

The words becks said, I would not use or condone.

They are not Of God. The father of My spirit Is Love unconditional, And if The father Of this world wanted someone dead, He does not need a man to do it For him, as in the flood.

But he only killed the Bodies , calling the spirits home for a pep talk.

In the beginning They Needed instruction, and the further one strays from love and goodness, the harder It is to hear Father, so he had a one on one in Heaven with thos early bros who were breeding Evil.

The body has a cellular memory.

Love Omnaka

WWF, you asked what it would take for me to believe in the God of the Bible, I simply never will. There are too many contradictions with itself, with logic, and with science. I don't believe in any sort of god and won't unless scientific evidence is presented.

Right on!!! If the true Creator were to write a book to us, it would be perfect and no power could corrupt it. The bible is filled to the brim with errors from beginning to end. The god presented is a reflection of the evil men who wrote it. I would not serve such a god as that.

Maybe you did not read my last Post.

Love Omnaka

These are direct quotes from your bible! I didn't put them in there. You say the bible is the word of god and these are his words. If part of it is a lie, the whole thing is worthless. There is a verse in Deut. that plainly says the high god was dispersing lands to his sons and Yahweh is one of those sons. He inherited Israel and Jacob. Does that sound like the god of all mankind to you? I will find that verse tomorrow and post it. That is the god we have been told is god the creator and that is a lie.

Omnaka isn't a Christian, and doesn't believe the Bible is true. He belives in some god that has no mainstream religion. Correct me if I'm wrong Omnaka.

Yahweh isn't a tribal God. You're also very selective in what you choose to quote from each passage. For example, you fail to add the following scripture:

Zec 14:3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle.

You make it sound like God is encouraging the rape of these women, when in verse 3 we actually see it's the women of Jerusalem who are being raped and the Lord avenges them.

Please spend a little more time reading the context of scriptures. If you are having trouble understanding something, there are lots of commentaries available that will help you better understand what is actually going on.

So you condone the rape? Also, WWF, last post on page eleven was addressed to you, it got skipped over.

As I said before , I will say it again I subscribe to no religion, I do not need any Book to speak with the God of this world. The only thing My Father everwrote with his hand was thye Ten commandments, which goes against all the rhetoric youu keep thinking I believe in.

Understand Me Now?

Love Omnaka

I am not a christian either and if people would read more than one post, they would know these things. I go on record here and now declaring I would NEVER attribute that horrible book to whoever created this universe. Can you imagine a being so far above human faults and emotions and 'state of the art' could not begin to describe this power and yet men try to drag him down in the gutter with them!!! The only thing mankind ever needed to know was what we call the 'golden rule'. If everyone did that, there would be no problems whatsoever. Nothing Jesus said was unique nor original. Most of it came from the works of Plato. The 10 commandments came from the ancient Egyption book of the dead. With the invention of the computer, there is no excuse for such ignorance in this day and age. Omnaka, I hope for your sake you don't worship the OT god.

God is not a man, that he should lie: neither the son of man,
that he should repent.
- Numbers 23:19

And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his
people.
- Exodus 32:14


this is how reliable the bible is. it isn't. nor is it the word of God but of man alone pushing an agenda claiming it to be from God. the bible is just as God inspired as any other holy text like the koran.

i dont condone rape

but think about the marriage to an offender. everynight he'll have to worry about his victim's revenge. now i think thats the closest thing to justice a women could get.

she cooks his meals
rears his children
knows were he sleeps and where the knifes are kept.
if he cheats she'll get to stone him
she basically is the noose around his neck if she chooses to be.

honestly think what you could do in that position to make sure he paid.

The rape wasn't condoned. The scripture was quoted out of context by cutting off the next verse stating God avenged the rapes, as well as the other crimes that were committed.

Zec 14:3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle.

So raping a foreign woman, avenges the rape of the Israeli women?

What are you talking about? They're not avenged by rape; they're avenged because of the rapes.

why for someone who doesn't believe, thats alot of hatred, what brought that on?

I think Omnaka has said three times now that he doesn't need a book for worship or to tell him what to believe.

He's not even a Christian or any organized religion or denomination.

Omnaka marches to his own drummer and that's ok, he's awfully sweet to everyone if you give him half a chance to be who he is.

Sorry Omnaka, I don't always agree with you, but you are sweet and peaceful and I didn't mean to step in here for you if that was unwanted.

In fact BeckyS, it's completely against the rules of this forum to call names. You're new, and we recognize that, but reviewing the terms of service for this site should give you a good foundation for how posting to these forums is done.

Let me put it this way, if one of us "old timers" posted that, we'd be banned because we know better. I'd urge you to be careful and enjoy your experience here. This is an interesting place to learn all kinds of things and meet all kinds of people with varying beliefs.

frankly god or not yaw or christ could kick my ass i still dont beleive in them. im not saying they dont exist i just not a wuss who needs to mooch strength of a "god".

im an adult now ill make my own descisions and suffer the consequences with dignity.

He was not rude or hateful, and you are reported.

My mother and stepfather are religious fundamentalists. I did not speak to her for 3 years when I was still in school. I left and lived my father. Even though I did not have food to eat all the time because at that time they were incredibly poor I would rather starve to death than go through that indoctrination.

After that not even god beating the sh** out of me can make me believe in a christian god. I cannot read the bible either I become sick upon reading it (psychological stuff)

I have my own idea of the creator which is evolving as I as a person is evolving. Science is my guide for everything material and non philosophical.

Many christian(NOT ALL) inevitably hurt people with their religion because of intolerance. They leave deeper scars than any satan or sin ever could.

She was calling me rude and hateful... but I can't figure out what caused her to believe that. I've reread all the posts, but I can't see where I've crossed the line. I've never been the target of a reaction like that out of anyone here ever. Not in 4800 posts under my belt.

Wow, well, there's a first for everything.

I know, she was completely out of line. You haven't done anything. And she's broken every rule in the book including slander and defamation of character. And then she also called me a Christian, when I'm an atheist... but whatever.

Oh goodness!!!! whatever shall you do!?
id report that, for sho

My point was she was making intentional lies. But it doesn't matter now, the mods dealt with her.

I can understand myself understanding infinity! haha I win

Seriously though, I cant say I would be convinced by meeting this god in person, the reason is I would always have in the back of my mind the possibility that its just a hyper advanced species a little like someone today going back the the stoneage with an atomic bomb and showing what he was capable of.
Being a fan of science I know it is proven that humans can "create" things and experiences for themselfs out of fear and will and that fact makes me sceptic more than maybe the average person.

People who say they can feel god in their hearts I wont ever believe, thats too easy so I guess the proof I would need was something utterly amazing that I would never have been able to think of myself, something so amazing that I was sure no normal human could have come up with that by himself. I saw absolutely nothing of that kind so far.

God of the Bible? If you need a Bible to work out that there is a God...then you're no different from those who say that there is no God becuase they can't see him.

Nothing short of God revealing himself to me and even then I would question my sanity.

I'm not an Atheist but I don't like to make assumptions.

Truthfully...

Nothing.

I do believe the bible to be Gods word But you are right it is not required to believe in God, Always a pleasure

Who dug up this old thread, there is a lot of bad karma in this thread.

Nothing could convince me to give up my faith.

Ahem.

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I could never be convinved =)

Thread closed, at the request of the OP.