"....Not true. Hinduism, while at a glance, believe in many gods, actually believe in one omnipotent god. Check out this link: http://www.hinduwebsite.com/onegod.asp. The Kabbalah. Check this link for an article on that: http://www.myjewishlearning.com/ideas_beli...tion_Jacobs.htm. Sikhism. Check out this link: http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Reincarnation. Not to mention GNOSTIC or esoteric Christianity. Just because scripture doesn't confirm reincarnation, it doesn't necessarily mean that belief in one god AND reincarnation are irreconcilable. In fact, I believe there are passages in the Bible that hint at it. If you'd like me to quote those, please let me know."

While this is kind of off course in the discussion (a trend of behavior that I've been displaying a lot lately), it's always been my understanding that the Hindu god, Brahma (I think that's right), isn't so much as a single, sentient all-powerful being as it is the very essence of our reality; a sort of cohesive divine unity of which all other things are simply facets. Thus, all the millions of Hindu deities are actually extensions of the One, right? That's kind of different from God, a superpowerful, omniscient, decidedly male being observing and interacting with our world from afar. I don't know anything about Sikhism except that they get to carry cool daggers and wear turbans, which is pretty awesome. And I'm pretty sure that the gnostics see Capital-G-God as being fallible and not omnipotent. Of course, I realize that there are many different sects of gnosticism, and I may be basing that assumption on my exposure to a small part of it.

My main point in that post was to point out that it's dumb to expect everybody else to think of the divine in the same way that you do. The same person that scoffed in my direction about suggesting that God is not omnipotent made an observation just a few posts earlier about somebody answering her from the perspective that "astral travel is real." Thus, she did the exact same thing when she replied to my post from the perspective that her "God" is real (a perspective which I find to be a million times more ridiculous than the perspective that astral travel is real). Now, I understand it was juvenile of me to answer like that, but I have to be honest and admit that it made me feel a little better about being up that early in the morning.

As far as astral travel goes, I certainly cannot say whether or not it is real. I've been meditating every night before I go to sleep, and occasionally I'll have an experience that seems like I'm on the edge of leaving my body, though every time I've intentionally tried it I've met with failure. And, of course, astral travel could be anything, since it's not able to be studied in a scientific manner to reach any certainties concerning its nature. I like to think that maybe it suggests a sort of ascension to a 4th dimensional mind-set. Who knows?

Not really hun. The other guy was trying to prove the reincarnation of souls by using astral travel as a tool to gather evidence..... a bit like saying I saw the Loch Ness Monster when I was on Nemos' Nautlilus. What you were saying was that the Loch Ness Monster was just an overgrown porpoise.


But this is what I was trying to say !!!!!!!!

for me, i guess it just goes to show how easy it is to fall into the trap of misunderstanding what is important to other ppl, let alone (and God forbid) trying to convince someone else that their beliefs are 'wrong'.... whatever 'wrong' is !

the only way i can justify that 'lol' and claw back some dignity is to admit that a non-omnipotent God is something that never, ever in my wildest moments ever, had ever entered into my head as a possibility.
apart from the simple semantics of the word and its etymology and the fact that its idiomatic; i am ingrained with the belief that the deity that created the universe exists within and without it, and not only created the matter, but also designed the laws that govern it. for me, if on a whim, God decided that 2+2 equalled 5, it would, and we would never have any comprehension of its being any different.

He's like that...He loves games.

love Min xx

Not really hun. The other guy was trying to prove the reincarnation of souls by using astral travel as a tool to gather evidence..... a bit like saying I saw the Loch Ness Monster when I was on Nemos' Nautlilus. What you were saying was that the Loch Ness Monster was just an overgrown porpoise.



No, it was more like I was saying something like "there is no organic material in Loch Ness (I realize this isn't true, fyi)," simply stating a fact about the lake without even considering the loch ness monster, and you interpreting that statement through your own perception of things and coming to the conclusion that I'm saying there is no loch ness monster. Meanwhile, I said no such thing, and I'm not even going to pretend to know that the loch ness monster even eats organic material. Maybe Nessie eats bubbles. Who knows?

The difference is that your worldview is based on the pretense that there is a god, and He is omnipotent and powerful and created everything and yadda yadda. Mine is based on the presumption that Science will show me what it can about reality, and everything else is a toss-up, because I have no way of knowing anything about gods or loch ness monsters.

Maybe you're right, maybe I am, it doesn't matter.

I think that Hindu concept of God is a very accurate one. Did you get a chance to read the link? But IF God is similar to the Hindu concept, it does not however, mean that it is an impersonal God, and if God is all and in all, does that not suggest omnipotence, although perhaps in a different light? Male? In my opinion, not necessarily God to me is spirit, neither male nor female. God combines ALL aspects, positive and negative. So you think it's 'dumb' to think I can expect others to think of the divine in the same way I do? Lol that's a given, my friend. Mine is only an opinion, look, I'm not one of those arrogant people that think I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Hell, I could be wrong. But assuming God exists, I do believe that He is in all, and that ALL paths lead to him. So I don't care if you are a Southern Baptist, a Roman Catholic, a Muslim, a Hindu.....it makes no difference.....all are just signposts leading to the infinite. Our interpretations of God are simply like...fragments of what God is.....

And with astral travel, I'm in the same boat as you. I've had the deep vibrations and such, but have never been able to exit. I can, however, project in lucid dreams, and have done that often.

i have a feeling that what ur saying here is pretty much close te my mark. is it possible that the God (that those who believe, believe in) is the same deity for all, and its just the interpretation and the fallible human element that creates the differences ? it could even go as far as being that a 'god' is just a creation o the mind te deter fear o death ? for me though, i'm afraid i am typical Catholic... i am arrogant enough te believe i'm right and all those others are wrong, but i'm not about te make them change and i'm not going te think any the less o them because they are different te me.
I may be wrong too, but God will let me know if i'm wrong... BIG lol... an a kiss fer Bleedingelite X

Minny xx

Where is the new material to make new bodies coming from??!!

......hey no problems there. I'm down with the Catholics lol. See, that is what I think though, regarding God, Christianity, while wonderful, is so limiting in its scope, and that is the problem I had with it. I mean, can you honnestly tell me, that a Buddhist monk, who often lives a far more spiritual life than your average christian is going to end up in hell simply because he did not call on Jesus? I just can't accept that. Rather, I think religion is created for the experience. You will reincarnate into different belief systems to pick up values from same. Your soul will gain in wisdom from being a Catholic, from being a Buddhist, from being a Hindu, etc., even being an atheist. Its like when you are building a puzzle, you focus on certain areas, corners, of the puzzle at certain times, well, that is each religion, different areas of the puzzle...when you are finished, it forms the whole picture, that which is your perfected soul, understanding of God, and return to Him from this fallen state. God will probably let me know if I'm wrong too. Hopefully He wouldn't be too mad lol.

Oh, and Vikstar, could you elaborate on your question? Maybe I'm just tired, but I don't follow you....

Vikstar, the material comes from the earth. It's all recycled organic matter. So, in theory, there's a chance that your body has at one point had some of Hitler's mustache in it.

As far as religions limiting the scope goes, that's why I can't believe in them. For all we know, god could be the size of an atom. God might have accidentally created everything, or maybe "god" is a 51 year old man named Gerald Smith who travels back in time from the year 2117 and accidentally overshoots his destination and ends up arriving before the introduction of matter into the vast nothingness of what would become our universe, inadvertently introducing the particle that would explode into everything we know today. Nobody really knows, and that's what gets me. Sure, you may be right, your neighbor may be right, Catherine Palmer of 28 East Street, Carson City, PA might be right. But none of you are going to be able to show somebody like me any reason to believe you over the other.

But I will certainly pretend to convert if somebody would like to make a paypal donation.

wow, great topic and discussion, i love it. so peacefull and comprehensive.

i believe that the entity of the one, is the summation of all that is.
and therefor we are all a part of the one, yet seperate to understand and experiance all that is.

weather or not we agree is neither here nor there.
we are learning and dicussing, that is what is important.

evidence of all being a part of the one is in the bible ( not to get off topic )
take a look at the heirchy of the angels.
starting at the one and splitting as it goes down the ladder ( increasing in numbers )
we are not at the bottom, but we are not at the top.

we are all but part of the whole.

now i will point out how the topic of creationism gets into another discusion altogether.

but it all relates to the original question of reincarnation. and different understandings of it ( or even if it is a possibility, depending on faith or experiance )
in essence nobody here is wrong in what they believe.
all points are equally valid ( just different )