Why is it when you see a fundamentalist in any religion, they are often the biggest hypocrits?


Islam is one that is the hot topic of the day so i will start there. Why is it these fundamentalist muslims believe that they must hate, kill, terrorize, and torture those who do not believe as they do? What god in their right mind would condone of such things? How could anyone in their right mind believe that they are acting as a relgious person by committing such acts? These viewpoints are propogated on the poor, by the rich of the relgion so that they may gain fame, notoriety, and worship...It is sickening to see, and i just cant understand how people can get sucked in to it. I suppose i dont live off of a dollar a month, and am not looking for some one to save me, so it free's my thinking a bit...but that should also show the rest of the free thinking world where to attack the problem...the source is in plain view!


Christians. People like Jerry Falwell, who claim to be the epitomy of christianity, but do nothing but preach a culture of hate and bigotry. Is this the word of this so called god? Gays and Lesbians are evil?? AIDS is gods punishment to the world for gays?? what in the hell is wrong with these people? This guy had an enormous following, and still has many many MANY influential people that push this sort of rhetoric. I am fairly good friends with a girl who is a self proclaimed christian fundamentalist. Some of the things she believes in are just absurd to me. She also spouts that she is such a devout christian in once sentence, the cusses the "******" in front of us that just cut her off in traffic...what??? (use of the N word to make a point, i dont condone its use).


Id like to hear others comments about this really...one of my biggest pet peaves about so called religions.

It has been my experience that on the whole, the vast majority of believers (no matter what religion) are good decent loving people - but the ones that are so consumed by their beliefs that we would call them Extremists or Fundamentalists are pure evil personified. It is from this group that the suicide bombers, the abortion clinic bombers, the terrorists of various stripes and the militias that murder, maim and terrorize are drawn! Their sins are a weight upon the shoulders of their moderate, normal co-religionists and reflect poorly upon their God/Gods!

Another topic destined to cause awesome flame fests!

Why indeed! That is quite a question. I'm sure that many psychologists would say it has to do with a person recognizing imperfections in themselves, and compensating as best they can. Catholic priests are a prime example. It's really a hard question, and there is no one good answer to such a hard question.

I will agree that it is very distressing to hear a person babble on and on about their beliefs and how wonderful their religion is (you know the preachy rambling) and then later find that same person is a blatant racist, sexist, liar, cheater, thief, abuser, etc. It truly stains that persons religion as well as that persons reputation.

I so agree with you , buy how does one overcome fundamentalism ?

what irks me also is , and I see it all over these boards , it when a 'Christian' does something horrible , bad , ect .... you find a chorus that will ring " they weren't real Christians" . Yet I don't know many real Christians. Not even after 30 years of being one. the same goes for the moderate Muslim saying they aren't real Muslims. It's such a cop out answer. It is up to the moderate to stop the fundamentalist. no one else really can. you can't bomb or shoot or kill an idea or belief. Otherwise Christianity would have ended with the crucification , the persecutions ect .....

plenty of fundamentalists believe they are real Christians or real Muslims. So who's responsibility is it to deal with these nuts ? the governments ? Maybe if hate was taken out of religious teaching that would help. take out of the bible and Koran those aspects that are harmful , derogatory , wrong , bigoted , uneducated and meant for as man existed hundreds of years ago.
obviously the text for some is a catalyst for hate based on uneducated beliefs by the copper age man. They've been cherry picked to death anyway. ( the argument about gays is upheld yet we no longer can keep slaves or beat our bratty kids to death. lets face it Christians are as right about how god feels about gays as much as 2+2=5. they are not. just something written by uneducated bigoted copper age man or later that fit how they felt , not how god feels.)

( as of now , as it involves the middle east , it is really about occupation more so than religion. It may have started out about religion , infidel feet on holy land ( infidel is someone who isn't Muslim) but it's warped far past that. The Iraq war has made more terrorist based on occupation alone. than existed based on religion alone before hand ) Plenty are there not for religious reasons but because we are there. We have been made less safe world wide.

the responsibility should come from the bulk of the religion itself.

...ohh look an NB shares their opinion and what they believe........ohhhhhhh noooooooo wtf?? but when a christian does it.awww look aint that just nice

Are you implying that I am a NB or a believer?

I don't even think the OP stated their beliefs.

The point was BM *snickers* that this is a prickly subject at best, and is bound to attract people with strong opinions on BOTH sides of the fence.

Ohh my eggy..now you are assuming things LOL...*kicks eggy down off his pedestal*

The point is eggy...BOTH side have created threads like this..............I reported on to PA (and he will tell you)..that was done by an atheist...i saw it as rude...but PA disagrees

So I think its best to move on...why worry over it??

no matter what religion , most thiests are good, decent loving people as good and kind as the next guy until you present an idea they disagree with.... then it takes a predictable route first one trys to get you to see thier way of thinking, then if you don't they scream you are hateful and attack you generally with threats and allude to some fate you are gonna suffer...unless you agree with them. that is .. IMO this isn't a model that works for a humanity that wants to be at peace and unified also those that are in power don't want to talk about all they have done, and willl do to remain this way...

you may be right. sad.

And I'd say that applies to non-believers as well. I know it does.

Very well said sis.........excellent

See When a christian makes a provoking thread towards all NB's...that fine and dandy...the people that agree with them will say - great post well done, or the usual --> my brother keep up the good work...or you will see a sh*t load of these -->

When you see an NB make a provoking thread, that's all fine and dandy for like 60 sec's then all of a sudden BOOM!!!! in comes the - OMG you flammer, you attack christians how dare you birgade lol... obviously those that do it...obviouly SOME (some meaning not all)..think its ok for the religious to make threads that take stabs but no ok for vice versa!!

If you are all about peoples rights..then you wouldnt take sides...you would move on

NB's shouldnt be making provoking threads and neither should the christians...y'all as bad as eachother <-------------not taking sides

this post is NOT aimed at anyone in particular

i disagree mw

Precisely my point.

mw I disagree, that a nb handles disagrement in a theist fashion......most theists defend a belief through attacks and making things personal they do not have a stance or debate generally most nb's research come to the converstation savvy and keep to the topic at hand rarely does it become personal .. our 'way is not to attack or threaten as dissent is natural and actaully the spice of a conversation and encouraged ..

And I completely and totally disagree... now what?

Wow. I won't even quote any one of the gazillion posts that contradict that.

why do you disagree ? would be what i'd ask ..I don't ask to bring you aroud to my way of thinking as your ideas are your own but to add another pov to the exchange of ideas... I do not come from a right or wrong paradigm so its all interesting to me for the joy of seeing how others think... its a delight to see really good minds in action to see what a versed mind looks like .. lol

why not share how you see things instead of attack gumby??? my pov is the way i see things....... is my view the only right way of course not... when you exchange ideas its an oppourtunity to look at soemthing in alot of ways...the reason is it adds a richness to a converstation... its not personal at all..

so lets try this again why not share what it is you think based on your pov....tttahts how a converstation starts it matters not our relgion or if we agree who cares what matters is we are sharing .... dissent is a given and with me a delight,

I think the term fudamentalists may have been hijacked. I probably consider myself a fundamentalist, in that I try to follow the fundamentals of christianity; the bible teachings, the ten commandments and the injunctions to love and not to judge. When you truly understand these fundamentals, the only harm you might do to others is bore them to death with preaching. But as this is a counterproductive technique, I normally avoid even that and hope the way I live my life is witness enough.

As far as I understand it, those who follow the fundamental precepts of the koran/islamic faith, or any other of the world's main faiths, would be pretty much the same. The problem lies with human nature. There are plenty of people who will use any mechanism, including religion, to ensure a sense of security at best, or a sense of power over others at worst. This is not a flaw in the fundamentals of religion but in the fundamental nature of mankind. For biblical believers this is one of the consequences of a knowledge of good and evil, and entered the world when adam and eve disobeyed god. For others it has evolutionary and psychological causes.
Thus to me fundamental belief is a "good" thing, even though the label has been hijacked to mean something else.

because I've seen NB's tell believers they're stupid, uneducated, misled, r******ed, insane, schitzo, unevolved and more... NB's do this because they're trying to shame and or guilt believers into a non-belief. The NB's tactics are similar to those of the fundamentally religious who tell NB's they're going to hell... it's the same difference.

I agree Mr. walker... the term "fundamentalist" has been hijacked in popular culture, just like a lot of other words. "Cult" is another one that's been hijacked in pop culture too.

It happens, it's why English isn't a dead language.

Well if you are talking about the NB's here on UM that have said those NASTY things...I suggest you present the evidence...as far as im concerned I havent see anything as nasty

very well put ! thank you.

This below is a small extract from an article



Fundamentalism Defined
Fundamentalism is variously described by various authors, but to me it really boils down to a rather simple test: In my view, a fundamentalist religion is a religion, any religion, that when confronted with a conflict between love, compassion and caring, and conformity to doctrine, will almost invariably choose the latter regardless of the effect it has on its followers or on the society of which it is a part.

Fundamentalist religions make this choice because they uniformly place a high priority on doctrinal conformity, with such force that it takes higher priority than love, compassion and service.

Indeed, many fundamentalists are so caught up in doctrinal seriousness, that love, service and compassion seem scarcely to even be a part of their thinking. As one correspondent said to me regarding a certain Christian sect's converts, "Its like they go in and surgically remove any sense of love or any sense of humor."


source http://www.bidstrup.com/religion.htm

Well Geri, here's the deal... I don't want to point out specific posts because that just gives those who continue to do this visibility I don't want to give them.

Many of those posts have been removed by moderators anyway. I can tell you that there are at least three different posts to other topics on this very forum this morning where NB's have said believers are dellusional or have heavily implied it. Just read all the topics listed this morning on the index page, you'll find them.

There are also no fewer than 2 believers who have said that they feel sorry for or think that NB's are going to hell.

It was insisted that NB's don't resort to these tactics.. there are several examples this morning where they've done just that.

Perhaps religious extremists would be a better description of these hypocrites, and as a Christian i totally agree! They are so busy telling the world their going to hell,they never seem to look at their own behavior! Which in my oppinion isn,t Christian at all !They just harp on about how others should live without living the exsample themselves! Anyone can call them selves a Christian, that doesn,t mean they are one! And anyone who,s read the bible could probably quote some scripture too! But that doesn,t mean anything! Some of these so called Christians are down right Evil! They are not seeking truth, they just want to be right,and they couldn,t be more wrong! One of my favorite things to say to these types of people is, Don,t tell me your a Christian, show me by living as a true Christian! And if your such a Christian why are you trying to shove everyone into hell? When Christ came to stop people from having to go there! Arn,t you then working in complete opposition to Christ? That usually shuts them up ! for a while anyway!

I have seen rude posts from both sides but I have never seen dirty rotten insulting foul posts from hardly anyone.....baised is so ugly IMO

I can honestly say I've seen all of what MissMels refered to with the exception of schitzo. Yes, they are dirty, rotten and foul...you will also see a lot of those same terms used in a post by eggumby pointing them out.

Bias is ugly, especially when ignoring a friend's prerogative of using such terms that you refere to as being so "dirty, rotten and foul".

The words dirty rotten and foul are ways to describe horrible name calling and abuse....IE - Dirty rotten foul mothed talk!!! is what I would use to describe certain abuse
If you seem to think that only NB's make this trouble..then you are being baised

I for one have seen both sides make rude comments ...BOTH sides...but its very rare to see any abuse thats rotten or foul mouthed <----I use this board more than you and I should know

NO ONE said both sides AREN'T guilty so I'm not sure what you are going on about. You just don't seem to want to admit that those words have been used by NB's (of which I am one) with or without your knowledge.

You may USE this board more that I, but you have no way of knowing how much I read it.

If you used this board as much as you say of course you already know that I am an NB, therefor I'm biased against people that believe as I do?

I havent seen ANYONE use those kind of words...,,,rarely have...and that means BOTH sides
I mention NB's only cuz thats what Miss mels was referring to..i did say both sides are guilty of abuse...im not that stupid...I can read
I am not even an NB therefore cannot be called baised lol

NB's were the ones I was refering to using those words. It would be sort of odd for a believer to be calling an NB those kind of things. lol

Why refer to one side?? when BOTH sides of the fence are just as bad as each other??

I reported an NB the other day to PA in a pm...PA will vouch for it...cuz I didnt think his thread was nice ...towards christianity...PA saw nothing wrong with it...so I say well I guess both saides are as bad as each other


Why would it be odd for a believer to call an NB anything foul?? its really easy to do...not all of the believers you see on line are sweet and innocent lol....

I seem to be having trouble getting my point across. You read way more into things than are there.

I don't think all believers are angels and can't be nasty.

I only singled out NB's because those are the words that are commonly used to describe believers. I've seen them often and frankly they offend me more than someone telling me I am going to hell because I don't believe. You doubted MissMels and I only wanted to confirm that I had seen the same.

Believers can be nasty lol..come over to my part of the world and you will get your eyes opened...all you have to do is pop in around July 12th..and you will see more than NASTY at a Orange mans parade LMAO...they stand and pray for like 30 mins and the rest of the day, they spend taunting abuse at others that dont fall into the same faith as them...riots form and all of a sudden ...all hell breaks loose....girl I have seen believers get down right nasty towards people who do NOT fall into their pathway....and it does happen....If you ever saw news flashes on N.Ireland about orangemen (call themselves christians)...then you will see a whole lot of nasty it would make the hairs on the back of your neck stand!!!!..

I can confirm what BM says ,we are not talking about waving placards ,You could end up dead on those occasions and I'm not exaggerating


fullywired

I'll never forget the riots and blood shed ...it was horrible...they had a brass neck to stand and preach the word of God..then put away their prayer books and got stuck into a riot wtf??

Thanks, but I think I'll stay waaaay over here.

I too would love to see posts of this nature, I myself can attest to being probabaly the most attacked NB on here hands down, so it is a subject that on any given monent anyone on here b or NB will say "ah yes" i know that name sheri she has been attacked by the majority.......... ( takes a bow) Gw probally following second and I can tell you not one has come from a NB as a matter of fact its the NB's that are the kindest ones IMO towards me even if they disagree with me and this is often......


BM if you ever have an inkling with your great research skills I bet its easily proved that there is a huge differnce in the behavior of the NB's versus the B's it is a well established fact this is part of the relgion to hate that which is as the bible thinks one should be.....

QUOTE(Psalm 97:10)Let those who love the Lord hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.
QUOTE(Psalm 119:104)I gain understanding from your precepts; therefore I hate every wrong path.
QUOTE(Psalm 119:163)I hate and abhor falsehood but I love your law.QUOTE(Proverbs 8:13)To fear the Lord is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.QUOTE(Proverbs 13:5)The righteous hate what is false, but the wicked bring shame and disgrace.
QUOTE(Romans 12:9)Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.

note the bottom scripture that love is hating what is evil.....that is love in its sincerety....

WHOA...

I said BOTH sides do this as an immature and lazy way to get people to think the way they want their opponent to think.

SHERI was the one that said NB's don't try to sway people to their way of thinking. I disagreed. By calling names and telling people they're dellusional or unevolved, they're in effect trying to "convert" the believer to a non-belief. Because gosh, no one wants to be unevolved or dellusional. Or course this is silly because this never "converts" anyone... just like a christian telling a non-believer they're going to hell doesn't convert anyone.

Capiche?

listen girl...i woudnt dream of bringing anyone over to that nonsense...but I kid you not, those believers are nasty..heck they give a whole new meaning to the word nasty LOL

PS i stay clear of that time of year lol...a lot of people I know take off to vacation to escape it all.....

MW that is not what i gathered from your psot in your psot ...you specifccally addressed how nasty and vile you have witnessed many NB's to be...

it is very distinct behavior of a b to attack after trying to proof ones theory by forcing it, generally followed up with an attack if a B encounters disagreement......it is in the forcing of the theory that the B's theory is validated to them they feel they are right now because you beleive them too. ( itsalso similar to the confirmation bias ) ... they are defending beleifs, validating thier own beleifs.... that is the nature of religion, it does show a lack of experince based in limited knowledge and can limit ones ability to gain insights and limit learning.. what would there be to learn generally many( not all) feel that relgion is inerrant and infalalble.....this is not a secret.....

I think that was someone else that had all those posts quoted. It was someone with a cow for an avatar. That's the only hint I'll give.

<--quoted from MW...

Let me explain something. When ANYONE refers to a "believer" as deluded or unevolved, as she-will-not-be-named and SS have, it is rightfully seen as an attack, just as a "believer" telling a "non-believer" they are evil and going to hell is seen as a personal attack.

This is part of it. How DARE you tell someone it is a FACT that they are taught hate! THIS is why you feel attacked! Because you PRESUME to tell someone that they are in FACT bad people. Some one PLEASE back me up here! Is this NOT an insult to Christianity in general? To make it even MORE fun, you have the GALL to quote scripture! That's about as disturbing as a prayer breakfast with Bill Clinton. Please...

Good call eggy..keep it all going in circles

This right here..your post...is asking to keep this all going...OFF topic and so wrong...yet you preach at those NB's for doing exactly this...bravo eggy...do call again wont you??


Now if you dont mind getting BACK on topic

eggy you are not debating you are indignant tthat i have a opinion that is outside of your tolerance perimeter. and that i have an opiinion at all LOL How dare I well, I dare LOL try it my freind you might like it........(.. the bible supports my position your post supports my position ....... in fact the teaching of hatred is a very core message in the bible, Its wonderful you are outraged maybe you can change it LOL.... .i observe attack because i have often been attacked by B's... there is never a jsutification for violence yet many who are relgious feel jsutified in hatred as is taught to them..... .... ....... i am not a victim though i am well aware that this is the physcology of religion LOL

Prayer with Bill Clinton....

What on earth makes you think you know SOOO much about Christianity? You seem to know oh so well how intolerant and attackfully hateful we believers are. Where do you get this ridiculous notion of Christian behavior?

oohh feckidy floook..lets all go off topic...ok then...im hungry and tired and going to bed its way after midnight