I saw a documentary a little while ago, called Jesus Camp. Now, here I will state, I am not a religious person, but I have nothing against those who believe in a god, or the God, whatever. To each his own. Yet, having said that, this documentary was downright creepy and annoyed me to watch- it involved people of all ages (though mostly focused on younger generations), extreme Evangelicals (please excuse me if I spelled that wrong) who held bible camps and seminars to spread the word of God and the Evengelical way. What bothered me the most was how

1) Many children were, in my eyes, obviously force fed their beliefs and some of them seemed to feel trapped in an overly extreme religeous world, and have well rehearsed speeches to say to the camera Ex-"I got saved... at the age of five... kuz I just ...wanted more of life...?"2) How according to the camps viewpoint, the children should be "trained as warriors" to "lay their lives on the line for God" 3) How, according to these extremests, Harry Potter is "The Devil" and Pokemon are demons, and children in the camp who admitted to enjoying reading the books or playing the games were reduced to tears... "Had it been in the old testament, Harry Potter would have been put to death." 4) How a majority of the campers claim "Global warming isn't real" (see the 3rd clip to see how WONDERFULLY they backed up their "reasoning")

Here are some links if you guys are interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RNfL6IVWCE...ted&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOIYsGVyg8M...ted&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07WX3F7UQWA


Lastly, let me just say, I am not by any means bashing anyone religious here! I just felt that this documentary made ME feel angry on a personal level, and I do not agree with the teachings or general means of raising these children. Which is why I posted this- i want to see how other people feel about this extremest viewpoint, be you religious or not.

I think Evangelicals are the only people on earth who I truly CANT stand.

I just cant take the extremism of it. I mean, if you have your beliefs, then good for you. But if others don't feel the same, then let them feel how they want.. not like the main pastor of the documentary, "THIS IS WAR" "YOU ARE EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US" I mean come on.

There are a couple of other posts on here about this if im not mistaken. Probably really old though.

The part that disturbed me the most was that preacher boasting(I forget his name...you know, the one who got a 'massage' from a gay man) about how if the evangelicals account for 88 million people, and if they vote they win .

This kind of stuff falls in the same catagory as:


or:



...In my opinion.

We are all indoctrinated since day one; therefore, who are we to judge, and could we even start to compare one set of rules from the next with an unbiased mentality??? I don't think so. The word extremist ("extremest"?) has a negative connotation, it brings alarm (like a fighting word per se) to the reader / listener. It makes one put on one's guard, especially after the 9/11 incident. It's not a word to throw around so casually these days, unless one has an intent to judge the other in a negative light.

I do, however, respect your intense feeling, the anger you felt from watching the docu. But, these people could also look at your lifestyle / belief system as strange, lost, contaminant, promoting disaster, anger inducing, "unholy," and so on, especially since according them, the Holy Spirit is on their side.

I understand that you don't mean to bash anyone, but somehow, your post came out that way...

At any rate, there are always two sides to a coin, I'm sure you know. Lt. Ripley's question comes to mind: "What if you are wrong?"

Just a thought.

Peace.

well, which Evangelicals?

hey - thanks for not ranting at me and putting up a really good argument for your points!

i agree with you that we are all indoctrinated from birth, with ideas and beliefs coming at us left and right. And though I like to think of myself in the "neutral" when it comes to religion, yeah, I am biased. But as you said, who isn't? Not me, and not the people in the documentary, either.
No matter what negative connotation the word "extremist" has nowadays as you said, I cannot think of the people in the documentary as anything but extremist. And I do not mean this just to make it sound dangerous- the way they are acting, "you're either with us or against us, we need to lay our lives on the line for god and fight like warriors"- That mentality, to me, is extremism.

I also agree with what you said- "But, these people could also look at your lifestyle / belief system as strange, lost, contaminant, promoting disaster, anger inducing, "unholy," and so on" - Im sure my lifestyle is VERY different from what they view as "right" and holy. But that's not what matters. what bothered me most about the docu was how nobody seemed to even CONSIDER the beliefs of others, or the rights. In fact, they seemed to almost laugh off any other lifestyle. Alright, if you have a religion which YOU personally believe in, and think is right... you can live by your own standards. What bothered me, is that it seems that this group of evangelicals is a very powerful, and still power-hungry group.

And again, I am sorry if I seemed to be a basher. I didn't want it to come off that way at all.
Hey its almost 3:30 Am in my town- I think im going into tired rambles now, maybe thats it!

Shauna

On the nose! also my opinion

Lol, it's almost like every 4 months we have a Jesus Camp thread LOL. They usually end up in the S vs S section though and usually those threads are closed.


IMO, what they're doing is what other religions do as well, but they're doing it in a different way. For instance, Jewish (Orthodox) parents don't like their children to have much contact with the world outside the Jewish community because they don't want them to convert to Christianity. Islam, well we know how extreme they are. I have had Atheist friends who said that they were raised being told that there is no God and they'd be fools to think otherwise. Overall, I think parents ingrain in their children their own beliefs because most parents don't even want to think about their children not being what they are. I myself would be devastated if my children did not believe in God. However, I wouldn't force them to go to some camp and learn how to be a fundamentalist bigot. IMO, Jesus camp is wrong, but it's no more wrong than any other form of religiously ingrained parenting. Its just a different style of making sure your kids believe what you do. Of course, when I watch videos like the trailer for Jesus Camp, I am reminded why I hate cults. *sighs* If only they knew their Bible, maybe they would change.

Gods Army from this thread: Youths Trained to Fight for Jesus

You've only been here 5 months ;)

Yes, only five months, so maybe not every 4 months. But I've seen about 2 or 3 threads concerning it in my short period of time here.

My first reaction from watching that docu was that of sadness because I was also a naive "puppet" of my church, school, and our government when I was very young and small..., but I got paid, at least, if that's any consolation. The thing is: I didn't think about any of it at that time, especially when my parents were part of the whole scene. When you're young, you assume that everything's fine because your "guardians" are there to protect your innocence, you assume that everything's all right, and basically, it is your duty to your belief system, the sphere you occupy. Again, I was indoctrinated since day one -- we all are. Some are just more overt than others. The subtle ones, I think, have just as much the same damaging affect. Thinking about it now, it really is inevitable, it is beyond anybody's control. It is similar to breathing. We really can't escape any of these indoctrinations if we want to survive in this world. You get to really know your tribe per se. Then again, we could always trade one set of rules for another, or others -- we always have that choice. Interestingly, I work for a major PR machinery, nowadays. Ironic or not, it pays the bills, but I do my job well because I love this country. It is the lifestyle I know so well since day one. I am definitely part of that structure. My forefathers died for this U. S. of A. And it is my paradise on Earth, no doubt. I certainly wouldn't want to live anywhere else because my life in America, at this point in time, is extremely exciting, a lot of waiting, creativity, and hard work, but the payoff is, I believe, what it's always meant to be. And USA is the ultimate arena for all artists, NOT Europe, nor Asia. America is THE cutting edge and the lifestyle setter. If you're not part of the American family in the 21st century, you're basically ignored, as an artist..., but that's another story.

I thought they closed down the Jesus camps ?

I had seen someone had quoted me with a question I posed of " but what if we're wrong?" that was about religion in general . I think it's nonsense that one thinks it's right and another wrong. or that one set goes to heaven and others don't . but that's neither here nor there.

when it comes to religious extremism , there is no excuse for taking other lives. none. even when it's politically motivated or no matter how justified you think you are. God is on neither side.


I understand the anger behind some of it , but that still doesn't justify violence , on any side.

actually I had more commissioned work than I could do when in England. Here in America , my work is a bit too 'strong' in it's statement for alot. Alot of people here are so repressed that a nude makes them uncomfortable for example. ( yet our society is sex obsessed)

I bet you, though, that they wouldn't bother with you if you're not an American (to begin with). Your Americana-ness is quite a cache, let's not forget.

The hardcore evangelical Christians can be found here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMRgT5o-Ig keen to start WW3.

I, for one, would have loved to go to Jesus Camp, just to point out the flaws in what they were doing, and to bug them that I couldn't be "saved", I would have loved to point out things in the Bible that have been proven wrong, and see what they're reaction is, and show to them that other religions are just as believable, though, from how extreme this place was, I'm sure I would have had an "accident" at camp, like "falling" off of something and hitting my head

I would also like to state, I'm am not in anyway trying to offend anyone, but am simple stating my opinion on what other people say.
There is good and bad in everything, this I believe, keep that in mind while you read.

Hmmmm, there is a lot to say, I know what you mean, force fed religion, it's sad, seeing children mindlessly going through life and not asking... what if 2+2 actually equals 5?

Memory:
There are different variations of children all in chairs being yelled at by some happy go lucky overly enthusiastic man swinging his arms around, trying to interest the kids.
This is when you look around, there are the...
-zombie ones(already won over but would like to go back to bed or eat a twinkie)
-There are the ones that are: Athiest, Agnostic, or even Wiccan who feel ashamed and alone, I hate those predicaments...
-there are the ones that just sit and scowl or space...they are so reluctant that they forgot they had ears and are waisting there life.
-there are the ones way in the back laughing about everything to make the time pass.
-and the ones talking as loud and as excitedly as the speaker, they questioned it and learned to love it.

Just thought I would bring out since I have had my own "Jesus camp" experiences...I was one that would sit in back and snicker under my hand. I was rude.

And I, sadly still love Pokemon and Harry Potter, might be sad but why lie if it's the truth, you know? And My Grandmother, she actually threw a Harry Potter book out of my hands and yelled
"I'LL HAVE NO MORE OF THE DEVIL UNDER THIS HOUSE" I was really pissed, my third grade birthday present, hard cover, thrown into the dirt, I used to think she was crazy, but she was just
trying to help, although I'm sure she needed it more then I did. I mean really, what is so satanic about bringing fables to life in a book that kids will love?

As for the pokemon theory, each creature is based off of a demon in Japan mythology, but come on, a happy little yellow fur bawl that has a vocabulary of five to seven words, a threat? Get a life.

Now for the videos...

1-The first quote makes me sick, "there are two types of people, those who love Jesus and those who don't" that is unemotional, brutality of a truth that is ignorance waiting for a fight. If you want to bring someone to God, if you even care, you don't say that. And if you have that mentality, you need a good slap down. lol

When you see kids, and they know what they are saying, it's fine to be that gung-ho, as long as what they are saying is what THEY are saying, not fancy repetitions of what there mum was saying.

2-HAHAHA...sorry, watch out for those Warlocks.

p.s.
If there is any religion I have been intimidated by, it was Evangelists and Southern Baptist...

wow, sorry about all the bad grammar... I should revise things before posting them

Listen Jesus Camp was a direct responce to Dady Muhammeds Day care which was direct responce to Uncle Moses micro economics for todlers seminar (yes the jews are good with numbers)

I'm only a 1/4 jewish - I guess I didn't get the good with numbers dna. lol My family has the wit however.

I think I'm going to be sick.. brainwashing 5 year olds... it disgusting.

Harry Potter is evil? Its like boycotting Dogma and its rubber poop monster! I wonder if they boycotted Glinda the Good Witch in the Wizard of Oz, or if they refuse to teach Shakespeare because of the mystics and witches involved.. no Bewitched, no Sabrina, no Charmed, no Bedknobs and Broomsticks. What about The Worst Witch? That was required reading when I was in middle school! Teen Witch? Good movie.. Or are they only allowed to watch the ones where the witches are bad and killed? Hocus Pocus, Sleeping Beauty, Rapunzel had a wicked witch.. Hansel and Gretal.. Or is it just that Harry Potter was one of the good guys? Can't have that, can we? Ignorance is one thing, but forcing ignorance on children is another thing all together.

I have a LOT to say about that last video.. with the woman and her son talking about creationism... all I will say is that those hypocrites can sit there and down science all they want til they need a hip replacement, til that nice little boy of theirs gets sick and needs a bone maro transplant or kemo, or daddy needs a pace maker.. they can go on and on about science being wrong while gravity is working to keep those books of theirs from floating off into space, and no way science could be right, cause there was no atom bomb.. thats not ignorance, thats stupidity.

I just watched the trailer for this on youtube and was gonna start a thread and found one. I was absolutely revolted when I watched this. The one lady claims in Islam children are "being give hand grenades to train with". This is no different than what they are doing, I can't believe these adults promote would promote a mentality to children that says "Well if they do it we have to too".

This was really eye opening to watch, sad and scary.

Hahahaha...I love the part in the last vid where it says "Did you get to the part that says science doesn't prove anything" That gave me a good chuckle.

Please , it's a wonder Americans aren't spit on in other countries now. Maybe , just maybe , it's about the work ?

That crowd is scary!!!!!



fullywired

Ugh... this movie was appalling. It reminded me of the Hitler Youth program in Nazi Germany,

I wish it was shown publicly more often. A scary number of people out there still don't get the difference between "serious Christians" and the Christian Right.

Yeah people like that are idiots

This is the problem with religious moderates, it allows for tolerance of such things. If this were atheist camp and children were being taught to be warriors against gods you can damn sure bet there would be a stop put to it.

"Ripley, you know I expected more from you. I thought you'd be smarter than this." -- Burke

Oh yes, you can afford to say "...it's about the work?" You are part of the American culture, after all... You can't escape it, unfortunately, even if you tried. Besides, it's not a bad thing because hopefully you know where the trend is heading, you know the culture, you know what's selling, and so on. Therefore, you are a step ahead of the game, just by being an American. The funny thing is: Only laughable, obscure, "self-imposed artists" from third-rate, art schools would actually say this embarrassing statement: "It's about the work." It's like feeling sorry for yourself, but doesn't have enough guts to admit to yourself that your output is lame -- kind of thing. One hears this especially in parties while one is schmoosing, and my first instinct is to get away from these wannabe "artists."

Do you know the difference between craftsman versus artist?

Could it be that these words are merely code words, perhaps created by collectors, agents, managers, producers, studios, labels, curators, marketers, basically gatekeepers, especially since most "art" nowadays are "just a bunch of rehash..."?

Oh yes, I expected more from you, Lt. Ripley, but alas, you're just plain naive, or perhaps, deluding yourself by accepting that "art" is all about you, your sole effort -- oh, how heroic???
"Climb every mountain, ford every stream, follow every rainbow, 'til you find your dream!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jebus_Camp

Google video - documentary

Youtube video - ABC NEWS jebus camp report

Youtube video - kids worshiping bush?

Their official website

I know that some people don't have full trust on Wikipedia, but I'm to lazy to search any further, so there you go.

WARNING: do not attempt to highlight and directly copy the hyper link set on this page, as it has a misspelling.

DISCLAIMER: I have no idea where to put this. I know the forum spirituality vs. skepticism, but I don't know if you're able to post a topic on particular religious institutions. (speaking to mods, admins etc.)Please direct this thread somewhere else if it's not appropriate for this thread.

Okay, I give you a little shortcut; Not sufficient? want more information? Go search for it!

My opinion:
This institute is indoctrinating these kids in an unhealthy manner. At first, their ideals seem good, but as it gets further deep, you can find, how twisted and sick this is. This Becky Fischer, seems to be "morally delusional" in my opinion. What I mean by that, is that she's using radical Islam as an epitome for the incentives of her objectives. Her objectives are vague, but you can get at least half an idea of what she's doing. She says she wants these kids to be begging to the lord, crying out to the lord, etc. like the people from radical Islam. And she talks about creating an "Army of God". I find her objectives to resemble something bad.
She's creating extremist etc. These people are teaching children that global warming is non-existent, it doesn't matter, rape the world, god is going to come. wtf? They are teaching that science doesn't explain anything and that creationism is the only answer to all the questions. And, teaching is not actually a good word to use to describe it, they are indoctrinating them. They're making their lives as biased as possible on religion, and that is all. They are being brainwashed, not taught, brainwashed. They are damaging these children mentally. indoctrination is an unhealthy way to teach IMAO. They are almost driving these kids into a spiritual obsession. As Karl Marx said, religion of is the opium of the people (of course this is still disputable). This is an unhealthy way to start a religious belief. It will be stuck in them so much, they will be inflexible to anything, and be stupefied on other choices. Religion is the only way, lets not stop, lets not even look at the alternatives. Usually what is put in a child's head at an early age is stuck with them to eternity, especially something like this, and even if it isn't for some, it doesn't matter. If you were to hit a child, it wouldn't matter, because in the future it won't be anything, and this won't happen anymore? no, that doesn't matter, the abuse is done. You shouldn't even attempt to hypnotize these children, and whether you know or not if you are, it is happening. This Becky Fischer claims she's using children because it's easy for a child to stick with something. It seems as if she is trying to.....invade, thus stupefy America. She even said Harry Potter was god's enemies and would've been put to death. This is going to extremes.

What are your opinions?

Helpful Questions:
(this is optional, but I suggest you answer them, just don't copy the questions ^^)

What do you think about this camp? What were your first impressions?
Do you find it moral, or immoral? Why or why not?
Is this an appropriate way to "teach" them? why or why not? (note I'm using the word teach loosely)
Would you send your kids their?
What do you think will be this camps social, political effect, or psychological effect on the child?

The question here is not wtf, we know what it is, but the question is ftw, what will this **** in our lives, if you think it'll **** anything at all?

Do a search... this topic has been covered a zillion times here. Most all of us decided that Jesus Camp is bad.

**** the what? I wasted ten minutes of my life making this
close it, I guess..............

^Don't worry, I'll just merge the threads
Thanks for the links, anyway

Oh my god, I just watched this last night and it made me sick to my stomach. I couldn't believe it, I sat in awe of just how brainwashed those kids are. I study psychological suggestions and I saw them all over the place. It should be illegal.

What's the big deal? Those are christians actually walkin' the walk instead of just talkin' the talk!
ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!

Spirituality is one of mankinds most sublime rewards.
Religion is evil and makes me sick.

When you have "the truth", then anybody who opposes you is either ignorant or evil. You rule over the ignorant and you kill or lock up the evil. Then you can make the world run to your perfect truth.

Oh wow! Another Jesus Camp Freak out!?

I'm sending my son there next year. What's the big deal?





















NOT! Jesus Camp, bad... the vast VAST majority of Christians would not support this.

Talk about taking a bunch of impressionable kids and having them do your dirty work! Will these kids ever have the right to have a mind of their own? I'm not religious but, in my opinion, that is teaching children everything that religion should not be about. That's not faith. That's pretty much bullying!

Those clips are sick!