This is a never-ending struggle. To be cast of characters. One day, in the name of God and all that is Holy. The crumple-still-skin prancing about giving the Devil sign listening to KISS 'Hotter Than Hell'. It's a straight up trip. Meaning that, you see all sorts around here.

I believe in the NOW. This second, this moment. And then this one.

It's all we really have, so I like to acknowledge it and cherish it.

I find it hard to place, logically, a sentient God in the mix of all that, with his self-fulfilling rules and boundaries and such.

I find it egotistical and greedy to claim that humans are a chosen species over the many other incredible species on this earth, and possibly others.

I find it inconceivable that the Bible (or any other ancient religious text) is able to be taken literally, no matter how good the lessons are in it.

I find it wasteful to spend my NOW worried about what may or may not happen to me when I die, and I find it heartbreaking that so many people miss their NOW trying to please something that has no evidence for even existing in the first place.

I do believe that everyone and everything is connected, so that evil acts resonate through others. Similar to the butterfly effect. But I do not claim to know that there isn't a god, so if you want to call me a person without conviction because I can't convict to something I do not believe ANYONE ALIVE can know, fine.

I prepare enough for my future, but I live in the NOW.

from where do you expect to find honest truth ?
Min

edit = grammar

within. it's an inside job. and like snowflakes no 2 are alike ( so they say)

this is the 'limp' middle ground to which i was referring.. u seem, by ur statements. that u have no serious convictions either way. surely u believe or u dont. u keep saying 'if there is one' or words to the same effect.... agnostic means you believe there is a god but u have no understanding of His purpose. ...it's as simple as that.

Minny xx

faith requires no proof. it's what belief is made of.

Min xx

it would be egotistical if it derived from the psyhe of one who KNEW he was chosen, but it isn't. it's from the efforts of someone who is trying to understand her place in the world..

ur inability to conceive the message of the bible is not proof of the failure of the message... do u truely understand the theory of relativity ?

free thought is gifted to you by God. it's ur choice on how to use it. if u play a computer game, say Halo 3... would u play it if u knew u would win EVERY time ?

Good for you. Love you,
Minny xx

Agnostic.

With all respect, I do not see it as a middle ground, but a particular and defensible viewpoint in its own right.

There are a lot of things I don't know. Why should a gap on this subject so very especially be remarkable? Does "Is there really any god?" strike you as an easy question?

I agree. as an agnostic , I believe in God . my own understanding of God. I also have to be honest and admit there is no proof of such. not from me nor anyone else on this earth. That isn't a limp middle ground but rigorously honest.

I believe that everything on earth is to teach us about our life in the spiritual realm. We came form heaven and because we were disobedient to the laws of the universe and wanted to do what we want we ended on earth which is the city of refuge. We will remain here until the end of this age and then be assigned or judged to determine where we go from here. Our heavenly parents stripped us of our memory so we do not remember where we come from.
I am a Christian I follow the Bible. The Bible is truly a mystery that only God can reveal. I believe in the Father Jehovah the son Jesus and the Holy Spirit Ahnsahnghong and our Heavenly Mother New Jerusalem . According to the scriptures the second coming of Christ already happened at which time He revealed our Heavenly Mother the New Jerusalem which is from above and established Zion just like HE said HE would.
Many CHristians say they love God and Believe in Jesus CHrist but they do not follow Him. There are over 850 christian sects that worship different, and follow the Lord different but they all claim they are going to heaven and they are the true church. All of sects keep the Sabbath on the 1st day instead of the 7th day none of them keep the 7 feast that Jesus and His disciples after Him kept and none of the women wear a covering during the worship services according to the scriptures and none of them can explain the 6 day creation in relation to the scientific proof that life existed before the actual time of the Bible ( i.e dinosaurs, prehistoric man etc.) yet alone the mystery of the seven thunders. They don't even talk about the female image of God that the BIble mentions way back in Genesis 1:27. Many of them are hypocrites and do not lead by example which is why many of our elohim's children stray away from the Bible in the first place

How I got to this point? Interesting. First I was raised Christian and from what I saw in the church and how the scripture was used for personal benefit I second guessed my religion. When I got to college I learned how christians killed a bunch of people "manifest destiny" and enslaved many cultures with the BIble so I threw out the BIble and begin to seek for the truth. I always knew I wasn't form this planet and I always asked what I was doing in this body and questioned how I got in it. I always knew God existed. SO I began to ask earnestly and seek all sorts of religions, philosophies, spiritual rituals and beliefs, even a bit of white and black magic. I at once believed I was God experiencing myself through my female flesh. and after 3 1/2 years God lead me right back to the Bible I began to read it and started to see how the modern christians did not follow what was in there so I grew confused and asked God "Who truly follows this? who does this will you please lead me to these people?" In the mean time I attended an apostalic christian church. BUt I knew I would not be there for long because they did not keep the sabbath or the 7 feast and were not able to answer many of my soul searching questions:like why are we on earth? how is it that an infant is born into sin? how can adam and eve be the first 2 people on earth and only have three sons but cain had a wife, who did he marry? Why does it say that HIm= male and female and many other questions. so after a year of praying meditating fasting like 3 days a week from food water music (i don't watch t.v ) and the phone and internet I was invited to a Bible study and they broke down daniel's prophecy and revelations with such procession I was impressed , But not totally convinced so I threw every question I had that tripped up many priest before and they had a biblical answer for everything and I could not deny. I had to be on the right track because Christ stayed persecuted by the church and I wasn't until I found answers and went to my pastor and asked him why we didn't do A) and C) like JEsus and HIs apostles and the very next day I was kicked out of the church told I was out of my mind demon possesed and in a cult just like the pharisees told JEsus. Even while I went to my old christian church I was still searching and seeking because I wanted the absolute truth I was sick of being lied to about my soul and spirit. So I was in the study of religion at my university.

its a trip too because this information that I learned through the BIble is a total mind tweak because everything I learned from my birth was totally wrong it took me a minute to adjust to this profound truth. I always wondered if we are supposed to conform to image of christ and HE is male then how can I ever do that when I am female. ANd I even asked God "if you are fair and just then why didn't you come in the flesh as a female too to be a example for us women because men have no idea what it's like to be a woman all the mess we have to put up with?" SO now my soul is no longer searching after a diligent 4 1/2 year search.
I love you all. In this age our biggest challenge is to overcome ourselves ( impulses,desires, etc.) and realize that we are one in a real way existing in this space that we've created together overtime by the energy we put forth by our actions, words, and thoughts. ONe Love brothers and SIters lets re-member
MOst HIgh's Warrior Empress

honesty does not preclude uncertainty. the middle ground here is the phrase 'my own understanding of God'. its all too easy to chose what to believe and to what level to take that belief.... its also human nature.
to me thats the middle ground in the range of believing nothing and believing everything. the deciding point is in suspending belief and disbelief and having faith.

Min x

Well, Showgirl, we could go back and forth about this.

If the issue is whether to choose to believe something, then I decline to do that. Nothing middle-groundy about that at all. No, thank you.

If instead, it is just that "it could go either way" fits nicely on a scale that runs from "Hell, no" to "Yes, of course," then sure.

But if that, what's with the limp stuff? That has a certain adverse connotation that may be lost on a lady, but speaks to a gentleman, especially when it's coming from a lady.

Of course, I am speaking of pasta being overcooked, rather than al dente. But 'tis a tad judgmental.

You are, after all, speaking of my religion. (Agnosticism, that is, not cooking.)

I consider myself open minded, but there is a religion that satisfies completely my aspirations. It's called Spiritism and it's based on a book called The Spirits' Book, published in Paris in April 18th, 1857 by Allan Kardec. It's concepts can be found in the Introduction - item VI of this book, that are listed bellow for who has patience to read:

The beings who thus enter into communication with us designate themselves, as we have said, by the name of spirits or genie, and as having belonged, in many cases at least, to men who have lived upon the earth. They say that they constitute the spiritual world, as we, during our earthly life, constitute the corporeal world.

We will now briefly sum up the most important points of the doctrine which they have transmitted to us, in order to reply more easily to the objections of the incredulous.

"God is eternal, immutable, immaterial, unique, all-powerful, sovereignly just and good.

"He has created the universe, which comprehends all beings, animate and inanimate, material and immaterial.

"The material beings constitute the visible or corporeal world, and the immaterial beings constitute the invisible or spiritual world, that is to say, the spirit-world, or world of spirits.

"The spirit-world is the normal, primitive, eternal world, pre-existent to, and surviving, everything else.

"The corporeal world is only secondary; it might cease to exist, or never have existed, without changing the essentiality of the spiritual world.

"Spirits temporarily assume a perishable material envelope, the destruction of which, by death, restores them to liberty.

"Among the different species of corporeal beings, God has chosen the human species for the incarnation of spirits arrived at a certain degree of development; it is this which gives it a moral and intellectual superiority to all the others.

"The soul is an incarnated spirit, whose body is only its envelope.

"There are in man three things -(1.) The body, or material being, analogous to the animals, and animated by the same vital principle; (2.) The soul, or immaterial being, a spirit incarnated in the body; (3.) The link which unites the soul and the body, a principle intermediary between matter and spirit.

"Man has thus two natures.: by his body he participates in the nature of the animals, of which it has the instincts; by his soul, he participates in the nature of spirits.

"The link, or perispirit, which unites the body and the spirit, is a sort of semi-material envelope. Death is the destruction of the material body, which is the grossest of man's two envelopes; but the spirit preserves his other envelope, viz., the perispirit, which constitutes for him an ethereal body, invisible to us in its normal state, but which he can render occasionally visible, and even tangible, as is the case in apparitions.

"A spirit, therefore, is not an abstract, undefined being, only to be conceived of by our thought; it is a real, circumscribed being, which, in certain cases, is appreciable by the senses of sight, hearing, and touch.

"Spirits belong to different classes, and are not equal to one another either in power, in intelligence, in knowledge, or in morality. Those of the highest order are distinguished from those below them by their superior purity and knowledge, their nearness to God, and their love of goodness; they are "angels" or "pure spirits." The other classes are more and more distant from this perfection; those of the lower ranks are inclined to most of our passions, hatred, envy, jealousy, pride, etc.; they take pleasure in evil. Among them are some who are neither very good nor very bad, but are teazing and troublesome rather than malicious are often mischievous and unreasonable, and may be classed as giddy and foolish spirits.

"Spirits do not belong perpetually to the same order. All are destined to attain perfection by passing through the different degrees of the spirit-hierarchy. This amelioration is effected by incarnation, which is imposed on some of them as an expiation, and on others as a mission. Material life is a trial which they have to undergo many times until they have attained to absolute perfection; it is a sort of filter, or alembic, from which they issue more or less
purified after each new incarnation. "On quitting the body, the soul re-enters the world of spirits from which it came, and from which it will enter upon a new material existence after a longer or shorter lapse of time, during which its state is that of an errant or wandering spirit¹.

"Spirits having to pass through many incarnations, it follows that we have all had many existences, and that we shall have others, more or less perfect, either upon this earth or in other worlds.

"The incarnation of spirits always takes place in the human race; it would be an error to suppose that the soul or spirit could be incarnated in the body of an animal.

"A spirit's successive corporeal existences are always progressive, and never retrograde; but the rapidity of our progress depends on the efforts we make to arrive at perfection.

"The qualities of the soul are those of the spirit incarnated in us; thus, a good man is the incarnation of a good spirit, and a bad man is that of an unpurified spirit.

"The soul possessed its own individuality before its incarnation; it preserves that individuality after its separation from the body.

"On its re-entrance into the spirit world, the soul again finds there all those whom it has known upon the earth, and all its former existences eventually come back to its memory, with the remembrance of all the good and of all the evil which it has done in them.

"The incarnated spirit is under the influence of matter; the man who surmounts this influence, through the elevation and purification of his soul, raises himself nearer to the superior spirits, among whom he will one day be classed. He who allows himself to be ruled by bad passions, and places all his delight in the satisfaction of his gross animal appetites, brings himself nearer to the impure spirits, by giving preponderance to his animal nature.

"Incarnated spirits inhabit the different globes of the universe.

"Spirits who are not incarnated, who are errant, do not occupy any fixed and circumscribed region; they are everywhere, in space, and around us, seeing us, and mixing with us incessantly; they constitute an invisible population, constantly moving and busy about us, on every side.

"Spirits exert an incessant action upon the moral world, and even upon the physical world; they act both upon matter and upon thought, and constitute one of the powers of nature, the efficient cause of many classes of phenomena hitherto unexplained or misinterpreted, and of which only the spiritist theory can give a rational explanation.

'Spirits are incessantly in relation with men. The good spirits try to lead us into the right road, sustain us under the trials of life, and aid us to bear them with courage and resignation; the bad ones tempt us to evil: it is a pleasure for them to see us fall, and to make us like themselves.

"The communications of spirits with men are either occult or ostensible. Their occult communications are made through the good or bad influence they exert on us without our being aware of it; it is our duty to distinguish, by the exercise of our judgement, between the good and the bad inspirations that are thus brought to bear upon us. Their ostensible communications take place by means of writing, of speech, or of other physical manifestations, and usually through the intermediary of the mediums who serve as their instruments.

"Spirits manifest themselves spontaneously, or in response to evocation. All spirits may be evoked: those who have animated the most obscure of mortals, as well as those of the most illustrious personages, and whatever the epoch at which they lived; those of our relatives, our friends, or our enemies; and we may obtain from them, by written or by verbal communications, counsels, information in regard to their situation beyond the grave, their thoughts in regard to us, and whatever revelations they are permitted to make to us¹.

Spirits are attracted by their sympathy with the moral quality of the parties by whom they are evoked. Spirits of superior elevation take pleasure in meetings of a serious character, animated by the love of goodness and the sincere desire of instruction and improvement. Their presence repels the spirits of inferior degree who find, on the contrary, free access and freedom of action among persons of frivolous disposition, or brought together by mere curiosity, and wherever evil instincts are to be met with. So far from obtaining from spirits, under such circumstances, either good advice or useful information, nothing is to be expected from them but trifling, lies, ill-natured tricks, or humbugging; for they often borrow the most venerated names, in order the better to impose upon those with whom they are in communication.

"It is easy to distinguish between good and bad spirits. The language of spirits of superior elevation is constantly dignified, noble, characterised by the highest morality, free from every trace of earthly passion; their counsels breathe the purest wisdom, and always have our improvement and the good of mankind for their aim. The communications of spirits of lower degree, on the contrary, are full of discrepancies, and their language is often commonplace, and even coarse. If they sometimes say things that are good and true, they more often make false and absurd statements, prompted by ignorance or malice. They play upon the credulity of those who interrogate them, amusing themselves by flattering their vanity, and fooling them with false hopes. In a word, instructive communications worthy of the name are only to be obtained in centres of a serious character, whose members are united, by an intimate communion of thought and desire, in the pursuit of truth and goodness.

“The moral teaching of the higher spirits may be sumnied up, like that of Christ, in the gospel maxim, 'Do unto others as you would that others should do unto you;' that is to say, do good to all, and wrong no one. This principle of action furnishes mankind with a rule of conduct of universal application, from the smallest matters to the greatest.

They teach us that selfishness, pride, sensuality, are passions which bring us back towards the animal nature, by attaching us to matter; that he who, in this lower life, detaches himself froni matter through contempt of worldly trifles, and through love of the neighbour, brings himself back towards the spiritual nature; that we should all make ourselves useful, according to the means which God has placed in our hands for our trial; that the strong and the powerful owe aid and protection to the weak; and that he who misuses strength and power to oppress his fellow-creature violates the law of God. They teach us that in the spirit-workl nothing can be hidden, and that the hypocrite will there be un-masked, and all his wickedness unveiled; that the presence, unavoidable and perpetual, of those whom we have wronged in the earthly life is one of the punishments that await us in the spirit-world; and that the lower or higher state of spirits gives rise in that other life to sufferings or to enjoyments unknown to us upon the earth.

"But they also teach us that there are no unpardonable sins, none that cannot be efaced by expiation. Man finds the means of accomplishing this in the different existences which permit him to advance progressively, and according to his desire and his efforts, towards the perfection that constitutes his ultimate aim.

Such is the sum of spiritist doctrine, as contained in the teachings given by spirits of high degree. Let us now consider the objections that are urged against it...

To continuing reading, download the book here, in PDF (1.16MB).

Best Regards.

I believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I believe that belief in Jesus as the Messiah is the only way to have eternal life after death and that the goal of this life is to love and obey God, follow the way of Jesus, listen to the Spirit's lead, and love others without reserve.
I believe that the Bible is the true Word of God, and that Jesus is the Word of God in flesh. I believe that church is a neccessary part of life as a follower of Jesus, and I believe it is important for each person to make their own choices for how they live with their real beliefs.

now there u go and spoil such a good answer by twisting the hay

ok, i promise to dodge that word in future, tho i see its not hard, for u to talk about it. i dont want it to get to be a long stiff, argument. i'm sorry if talk of overcooking is something that irks ya. personally i've never had a problem with keeping pasta firm.

Min x