Are the Jehovah's Witnesses the true servants of God because they preach throughout the inhabited earth, and are united in brotherhood? Or are they just like every other religion? For those of you who know about them, is disfellowshipping a morally correct practice? Is it right to believe in a faithful and discreet slave? your thoughts

One of them came to my door once, they had a panflet....it preached all about how their relegion will fix your life, and that it was onpen to anyway, on the back there was even a group photo of a multicultural family, it really made me laugh because they give you all this B.S about the relegion being for EVERYONE, but they belive theres only 200,000 spots avalible in heaven, haha, if i had taht information and it was true I would NOT spread it around..

There is no true religion in my opinion, but Jehovah's Witnesses follow the bible more precisely than most other religions. That's just my opinion.

I listened to and invited into my home for more than two years; JW's, mormons and anyone else who had the courage of their convictions to spread the word. This was a time when i had just started teaching, in a country town well away from family and existing friends. I lived alone, and was quite thankful for any one who would wile away a few hours with a good debate or shared knowledge.

I had also just experienced things which for the first time left me in no doubt as to the actual physical existence of god, and so getting him right was an important priority.

I discussed a lot of points with all these groups, and learned a lot about belief and diversity from them. However, in each case i found that when stood up against the word of god, and biblical principles, there were significant truths missing, and things which just were not biblically sound.

Now the bible may not be the only basis for organised belief/ religion, but if you say you are a christian believer, then i think you have an obligation to base your beliefs on biblical truths/principles. In the end i moved on, found more accurate philosophies, and continue to study and learn; something i have now been doing for over 35 years.

I used to work with two or three JW, they did not believe in putting money in any birthday collections, so they never did. However, when it was their birthdays it was expected that others would contribute.

I hasten to add, I never did put in their collections.

They never associated with any non-JW and there was always the feeling that they put themselves above others.

Personally, I think a lot of extremely strict religions can be slightly hypocritical.

Jehovah's witnesses along with mormons and buddhist are actually some of the most peacful religions. the only crimes committed by jehovahs witnesses or mormons are coming to your door which people treat like they are killing sombody or something. my beliefe in no religion is wrong though and that every religion is a person or cultures way to worship god. jahovahs witnesses are fine with me.

They are not fine with me ,their policy toward blood transfusions for children is diabolical.if they want to refuse blood for themselves, that's fine with me but to prevent transfusions to save a childs life is unacceptable



fullywired

I don't know that Mormon's fit specifically into the classical category of "peace" religions... JW's do in part--they refuse military service, but not for reasons of peace and non-violence, but more for theological reasons that you should not follow a government based military.

Jehovah's Witnesses are politically neutral. They feel that their allegiance belongs to God's Kingdom, which is viewed as an actual government. Thus they refrain from saluting the flag of any country or singing nationalistic songs. They believe that such an act would be tantamount to worshipping an idol. Members are expected to obey all laws, including the paying of taxes, of the country in which they reside, so long as these do not violate what they view as God's law. The political neutrality of Jehovah's Witnesses is also expressed by their refusal to participate in military service, even when such is of a compulsory nature, and by their detachment from secular politics. Since 1996, alternative military service is viewed as acceptable. wikipedia

Now, my own church also refuses combative military service in most cases (although most would serve in a non-combat capacity if ever drafted), and we also do not salute flags and in fact don't even take oaths. But we don't do it for the same same reasons JW's do. Our objections are more along the lines of "Do no harm... ever."

I'm not really sure how to respond here. I was friends with a JW for many years, had a cousin through marriage who was a JW, and I tried to date one. While I won't elborate on that experience I will say this...

along with denying a child the right to a life giving transfusion, they also deny that child birthdays and holidays. While an adult feels that is the right choice, how horrible for a child to go through school and witness all the celebrations but not be able to take part in them? I can tell you from firsthand experience, it makes the child feel alienated and quite alone. IMO, thats just horrible. A lot of people might disagree with me, saying that my reason alone is completely irrelevant, but thats where I stand. Any religion that can make a parent look into the face of their child and tell them that celebrating ANY holiday (including their birthday) is wrong... just doesn't sit right with me.

My family wasn't religious when I was growing up and we didn't celebrate any holidays or birthdays. It never bothered me.

I am religious but my religion teaches that every day is a celebration and should be treated as such. It's never bothered my daughter at all (who has no religion), nor has it bothered my sisters children (she's even Catholic, but chooses not to participate in holidays).

My uncle and an aunt (two different sides of the family) are JW's... while technically they don't celebrate holidays, like everyone else, they DO tend to have family gatherings on these days and serve big meals etc...

I am very curious regarding this Birthday business.

I wonder what their view is on birthdays, why is it, in their eyes, not suitable to celebrate one's own birthday?

Every faith believes they are true to God...so as no one can actually tell you which one is the real one...we just stick to what we feel is correct by us

i agree the blood transfusion thing with the jahovahs witnesses i don't agree with it. but hey, it's just as bad as people denying the right of a childs life before they are even born.

All depends on what the circumstances were....

JW's are big on supporting and celebrating God, not material and personal milestones. I do know some JW's who quietly celebrate and acknowledge each others b-days with a quiet dinner or a small family gathering, but making a person princess or prince for a day, isn't their idea of celebrating God. On some level, I kinda get this.

My family doesn't celebrate b-days, although we do try to do a little dinner, but mostly we don't give gifts or anything. My family believes that you celebrate everyday, and we give heartfelt gifts year round and for no particular milestone, but we just do it as I way to say "I love you, I was thinking of you today and thought this gift would mean a lot to you"

You'll find most JW's believe that way. I think in practice, it's a cool concept... I don't do for reasons of religion (or mostly, part of it is) but because I like the concept of celebrating every single day.

Ah right, yes I see now, thanks

their on the FBI cult watch list . that should speak volumes .

Uh, I work with a bunch of former FBI agents... just about every organized group in the USA is on the cult watch list--I asked one of them about this once and they just laughed and said "It would have been easier if you asked me who wasn't on it"

LOL

I had a similar experience when I was in high school. One of my best friends was actually a JW and whilst we were friends for most of our high school years (about 6 years), she had never attended of my birthday do's, Easter or Christmas get togethers even though she was invited every time. Kinda seemed weird at the time, but eventually I got used to it.

Our group of friends always used to include her when it was gift time, yet we never received anything in return from her. In the end, she was a good friend, but once we finished high school, she moved on to spend more time with her congregation and family and we never heard from her again.

I had a several friends in high school who were JW's. One kind of stands out in my mind. She didn't want to be a JW. She just wanted to live like the rest of us. Her parents controlled how she dressed and who she saw to the extreme. She never when to foot ball games or dances. She was a beautiful girl and her parents made her wear these ugly dresses. She didn't want to go to church so her parents kick her out and would have nothing to do with her. So at 15 she moved in with this older guy who was in college. I was glad he was a nice guy who truly loved her. She stayed in school, earned all A's and last I heard she was in college, and hoping to get in to medical school. I always thought her parents were very cruel to kick her out. She was a bright beautiful person and it was her parents loss. After that I guess I never thought much of JW's after that. I don't care whether they give gifts or what they celebrate, but to disown your own child at 15 because they don't want to follow your religion is just wrong.

Lol, Darkwind; it reminds me of a John Waters film!

I knew a family that were Jehova, they didnt have Xmas and they always seemed so cranky and short tempered.
One of them was very competative.

Jehova go door to door every year......... Just before Easter.

They seem to go door-to-door every week round this way

They are all over the place were I live every weekend they would come to the door my sister got fed up and told them "Sorry we are cathloic jews we are confused enough." They never came back.

I consider my religion peaceful, and I'll fight anyone who says other wise!!!! JK. We believe that we have a right to fight for our lives, liberty, and property. That doesn't mean we pick fights. Hopefully you haven't had a bad experience.

Yes I'd consider mormons peaceful... but I meant something specific when I said "Peace Religions", meaning completely passive, completely non-violent Christians. There are an entire group of them, Jehovah's Witness sort of fit into the fringe of that core group of Anabaptist, Quakers, and a few Pentacostal denominations/sects.

No, I've actually never had any problems with Mormons at all, in fact quite the opposite. I live a couple of blocks from a temple and they make fantastic neighbors. I don't agree with LDS theology, but that's ok... I do like having Mormons for neighbors and friends, there are aspects of the Mormon faith that I do admire.

I've got nothing against JW's or anyone else. The 12-pope system from the Jw's Watchtower system truly does give me the creeps, but heck, that doesn't mean I've got anything against Jehovas Witnesses - even if they haven't got a case of beer with them when they come kicking my door in.

My personal story is that my Father started to doubt many of his views pertaining to the JW's... Eventually, he was kicked out and all his family and friends were not allowed to speak with him. He lost so much affection from his family, even they know it is wrong to ignore your family members completely so sometimes they have to sneak messages to him, but the messages are only to scold him.

The JW's view "the World" as anyone other than them, and if they teach universal love, isn't it hypocritical to group people like that? That is why some of you will find that your old JW friends never went to your get-togethers or parties, because the famous JW quote is "Bad association spoils useful habits." To me, that just seems wrong to prejudge anyone who isn't a JW, although they will claim that they do not but I see otherwise.

However, the religion did teach me to be very humble and friendly and quite close to God, so I do have to thank them for that. The whole no-blood thing is just a sacred religious view so you have to just respect them on that matter.

They also believe that their Faithful and Discreet Slave class are their leaders and teachers, but how they select these people I am unsure. Is it right to believe a certain class of humans is higher? I went to a District Convention with my family when I was visiting and they loved to mention how the "slave class" feeds them so well but this slave class always seems to be hidden.

We have a sign on our front door, outlining who is welcome to our home.
the list consists of the following words:
NO COLD CALLERS
NO RELIGOUS GROUPS
NO SALES PEOPLE
NO MORE - EVER...

but the buggers still ring the door bell

I use to know alot about "Jehovah's Witnesses" but i sort of forgot over the years. What i do know is that... they aren't following the bible. Some people may think so, but from what i remember they have some off-christianity beliefs. If you want i can go ask my friend or go research about them if u want me to.

When I was around 23, I sort of fell for a girl who was a JW. I met her when she came to my door doing her evangelist work. We met a few times after that and I rember one day, I got home and my pastor was at the door with this girls father (I lived with my pastors family back then), it seems, that I was accused of trying to subvert her beliefs and getting her to follow another religion. The father went and complained to my Pastor who then prohibited me from contacting the girl again. The father effectively warned me never to go near his daughter again.

That was too wierd.

To this day I still feel irritated that such people regardless of their religion, should prohibit others from following their hearts. And the heck of the matter is that I wasn't trying to convert her.

sure Jor-El, I get that, it's pretty common for the JW's.

My uncle is JW, For him, it hasn't been a bad thing... he was a pretty crummy individual before he converted. I freely admit, that while he doesn't completely shun our family, we do not see him and his wife the way we used to. They showed up for my sisters wedding, which was nice. They were pleasant, but didn't stick around for too long, but it was good to see them. They came by for dinner one night when my other uncle was in town. But mostly they do keep their distance. I don't particularly care if they think I'm a heathen and going to hell, that's their business. They have no children, but I'm going to assume that if they did, they would not allow their children to see anyone outside the faith.

The reality is that this isn't that uncommon for a number of devout Christian denominations and sects. Catholics have a problem with people marrying outside the faith, so do lots of others.

Personally? I think it's both good and bad. If I were ever to marry again (unlikely) I'd probably choose to marry someone within my church (slim pickin's there. haha) because there would be a core belief on core life fundementals and lifestyles. However, my faith would not necessarily stop me from marrying a Jew or Muslim either.

I guess I'm not really for or against marrying/dating outside of ones faith... I've seen it work and I've seen it fail on both sides. One of the best marriages I've ever seen is a girlfriend of mine who is Jewish, and she married a Catholic man. They raise their 5 boys Jewish, but they decided that long before they had children.

I'll admit though, the shunning aspect of some Christian denominations is troubling to me, but it's not my faith I hate to pass too much judgement beyond recognizing it's perhaps not all that healthy (and, in my opinion, it's not terribly "christian").

[quote name='MissMelsWell' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:21 AM' post='1868978']
sure Jor-El, I get that, it's pretty common for the JW's.



Catholics have a problem with people marrying outside the Faith






This is no longer true ,at least not in England ,I can't speak for anywhere else


fullywired

It's still an issue most places. My grandmother married a catholic man and so did both my cousins... all three have converted to Catholicsm to appease freaked out family members and clergy. They all had to have their weddings over again so they could be recognized by the church. Sounds like a lot of extra howdy-do to me, but hey what ever floats their boat.

Hello Doc. I am not an expert on JWs, but I know enough about them to see that alot of what they do is not Biblical. I don't want to knock anyone's beliefs, but if you believe in sola scriptura (the Bible alone) then you will run into problems with JW doctrine. I don't have the time now to post scriptural references, but if you need them let me know and I'll be more than happy to provide them.

Concerning disassociation/disfellowship, they take an extremist approach to it, and many who advocate permanent disfellowship/excommunication/shunning are completely torturing the scriptures. The Bible is clear that Christians aren't to associate with other Christians who live and support lifestyles that are contrary to God. If a congregation or church body has a problem with one of it's members, and the person refuses to confess and repent, then that person is to be withdrawn from the church. However, to do this to someone permanently is to forsake one of the core teachings of the Bible, that of forgiveness. Any church member that repents and seeks to make amends should be immediately brought back into the church for healing and strength.

You also ask about 'higher humans'. In short I can tell you that this completely flies in the face of Biblical truth. If you read through the letters in the beginning of Revelation, you see Jesus condemning what is referred to as 'the teachings of the Nicolaitans'. The root words (Greek) are nikao which means to conquer, and laos which means people. The practices of the JW are a form of this, as well as the practices of the Catholic Church. The idea of church hierarchy is strictly condemned in scripture because it completely negates the direct relationship that every born-again believer has with God. We can all approach the throne through the power of Christ Jesus. If you look at the churches that practice the Nicolaitan philosophy, the people are told that they need to go to church leadership to solve their problems. This practice has done some serious harm inside the church and if more people would read their Bibles they would see this.

JWs are nice people with strong morals and almost matchless dedication to their cause. I wish that their doctrines weren't so unBiblical. Probably one of their core problems is that they don't believe Jesus is the Son of God. They believed that Jesus was actually the Archangel Michael in human form. They also have their own translation of the Bible that completely changes things around. On top of that, they have made all sorts of false prophecies in the past. According to the Bible, true prophets of God will never be wrong.

If you are interested in learning more about the unBiblical methods of the Watchtower, you can check out this video here. Be careful, though. It goes against the teachings of the Watchtower and if you are a JW and get caught watching it, you'll probably be disfellowshipped. It's very informative and includes interviews with ex-members that had very high ranking positions.

Llucid, from what I remember about JW teachings (my grandmother was one) they do believe that Jesus was the son of God, they don't believe he IS god, unlike Catholics that believe Jesus is god. But they believe that every man is a son of god, and jesus was an example of a perfect human. I can't argue with that.

As for not celebrating birthdays and holidays: they recognise that these are Pagan celebarations and refuse to partake of them. Easter is the most important holy day, and Christmas is a guise for a Pagan winter celebration. Every religion, imo, has areas onto which doubt can be cast.

Another thing: the blood transfusion issue-their refusal of blood products is no stranger than some of the Jewish kosher dietary laws or the covering of heads in Islam or a dozen other religious practices that I can think of and actually affects fewer people.

Strange to me are the polygamist inbread religious groups. Don't they know they are defiling the gene pool?

In general, I find them no different than other so called "christians" who have glaring flaws and double standards.

Catholic church should have excomunicated a few of the pedophile priests in it's "company", some people can't be reformed. I sure wouldn't want to belong to the place that takes them into the fold and such I hate them. Maybe that's why I wasn't fit to belong to a church.

Well, I understand that someone on the outside looking in does not see much difference between JW and other 'branches' of Christianity, but being on the inside offers a different perspective. I understand that the JW view of Jesus lines up in some ways with the traditional view of Him, but there are some apparant and cataclysmic differences between the two. Being a 'Christian' means to be a follow of Christ, and it's hard to be that if you don't have an accurate Biblical view of Him. Here is one of the biggest differences between the JW view and the Biblical view:

"Jesus Christ, whom we understand from the Scriptures to be Michael the archangel." - ( The Watchtower, February 15, 1979, p. 31)

"Michael the Archangel, the first creation of Jehovah, before He came to earth and returned to the identity of Michael after his resurrection."
- (Aid To Bible Understanding, p. 1152)

"Michael the Archangel is no other than the only begotten son of God, now Jesus Christ. That Jehovah directly created only one thing, Michael the arch angel and that Michael created all other things." - (United in Worship p.29)



"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. For to which of the angels did God ever say,

'You are my Son;
today I have become your Father'?

Or again,

'I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son'?

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

'Let all God's angels worship him.'

In speaking of the angels he says,

'He makes his angels winds,
his servants flames of fire.'

But about the Son he says,

'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.'

He also says,

'In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.'

To which of the angels did God ever say,



- Hebrews 1:3-13 (NIV)

The Bible clearly shows that Jesus was not an angel, and was above the angels. This part of Hebrews was written to the Hebrew people to clarify this point. I can't see how JW's can look at this and not see how it contradicts their own teaching.

The only JW I ever knew was in elementary school. Her name was Carina, and she was one of my best friends. She was never allowed to stay in class for parties that we had, or go to sports games, or any of the other things that the children got to do. I remember one Valentine's Day, we were all starting to exchange cards and cookies and her dad showed up at the door and was very rude to the teacher for not waiting for him to show up to get Carina. She was so sad she had to leave and got scolded in the hallway for crying.

She never got to stay for any birthday parties, which weren't even really big, usually just an exchange of cupcakes and we may have done the hokey pokey and the chicken dance or something. Her parents had a list of every child's birthday (which didn't sit well with other parents btw) and he was legally allowed to so their family could know what days would be celebrations so they could come to the school and pick her up.

I only got to hang out with her outside of school one time, and I had to go to her house. I only remember her mother being very stern and cold, she made me very uncomfortable. I was relieved when my mother finally came to get me. I felt like we were being stalked every time we moved.

Now naturally, this doesn't speak for every JW family, but not celebrating holidays doesn't effect every child the same way either. I can fully understand why some Christians wouldn't celebrate major holidays (especially as was mentioned with the Pagan influences of most of them) but not even your birthday? I was never treated like a "princess" perse, especially not as I got older. My family always taught me that we always celebrated birthdays as adults to thank God we were healthy and living another year, and that families celebrated their children's birthday so THEY could thank God their children were healthy and lived another year. It was very impersonal, and much more as a ceremony for being thankful for another year of life.

I just don't understand why it's so strict. But I wasn't raised that way, so in all fairness, I guess I never will. Just my thoughts.

May i? iv been a jehovahs witness for my entire life and i would just like to say, i want to clear things up.

although i believe that blood tranfusions are against gods laws in most places if the child is not able to prove he/she is mature enough to make the descision
for him/her self she will recieve the blood tranfusion without parental consent and thusly you cannot blame us for the death of children.

Secondly, if a person is miserable or misguided you certainly cant blame his/her religion you cant expect people to be all happy jehovahs witnesses
because some just don't serve jehovah wholeheartedly.

As for our views on war, there not entirely based on our political neutrality, we are also a strictly non violent religion
killing and warfare (that is human warfare) we are against completely

As I understand it it is the law that says the child shall have a blood transfusion not the JWs if were left to them the child would die ,however if I am mistaken some one no doubt will correct me


fullywired

im not exactly sure what a jehovah's witness believes. someone care to explain?

the other day someone knocked on the door and i was sitting there playing xbox 360, and they were jehovah's witnesses.

ignorantly i yelled out "we love jesus in this house! not jehovah!" they left us a card and went on down the road. should i be embarassed?

im a christian and believe in evangalizing, but not door to door, geez.

Maybe a picture of a vampire on your door and the words "Blood donors wanted" might help

im not sure what you mean by this.

Sorry, Milky, didn't mean to reply to you. Just advice for anyone who wants to be free of JWs, that's all

thats cool. i know jehovah's witness believe in christ, right? im not sure. does anyone know how their views differ from the basics of christianity?

i guess i could stop being lazy and go look it up, but id love to hear it from a JW themselves.

Well they have their 2520 thing (1914 prophecy), blood business thing, Jesus is the son and not God thing, only a few JWs go to heaven to become rulers of everyone on earth thing. The rest is much the same thing as what you hear from most other Christians

so if they dont believe in the divinity of christ, wouldnt that exclude them from christianity? oh wait, im sorry, it was mormons who were knocking on my door.

um can i clerify?

we don't believe that jesus is god, but we do believe he is our king therefore we believe in his divinity.
we believe he will rule over humans in the new paradise earth with 144000 other select people who will rule as angels with him.

And how may I ask did you all come to the conclusion on this issue of his divinity?